Secrecy is the tool of dishonesty, whether personal, familial, commercial, or governmental.
In spite of how disheartening it is to learn about the escapades of politicians in various levels of government, consider this: It's disheartening because we learn about that behavior. In fact, we learn about it relatively quickly.
We learn about it because of one of this nation's greatest strengths--the requirement by law to be open. At the Federal level, that law is the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
Here at home, we have the right to request records from any public or government entity. All kinds of records: meeting minutes, budget figures, invoices for equipment and services--you name it, you can get it.
In addition, all elected officials are required to attend a half-day workshop on public records during their term of office. And because those are public workshops, conducted by the State Attorney General's office, all of us can attend them. I have attended two, and my respect for our system of law grew immeasurably as a result.
If you are over 30 or so, even though it is our right to request and receive public records, doing it feels a little uncomfortable. The first time I saw someone using public records information in a meeting, I felt as if I had just encountered something unclean. Actually, I had--but it was the character of that person, and I have lots of company in that view. Since then, I have requested various records and am better informed as a result.
Those open records laws do more than just let our elected officials know we are keeping an eye on them. They keep us safe, too. In Portage County, court records are only a few mouse clicks away.
A records check in a nearby community revealed this: Someone was doing volunteer work for that community that involved going into people's houses. That person has a long record of harrassment, intimidation, and stalking. During the last year, assault was added to the list. The volunteer work was terminated instantly, and rightly so, thanks to open records.
This is one law that gives us power, rather than restricting us. It's a really useful tool.
Why are the open records laws called "Sunshine Laws"? I'm not really sure, but it may be because of this quote from Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis: "Sunshine is the best disinfectant."
Sunshine, and knowledge.
Thursday, March 31, 2011
Tuesday, March 29, 2011
Limerick 3/27/11
"Lawrie Lightsout" makes it clear--
Wants senior trustees out of here.
But "Group of 8" reeks of albatrosses,
Good Ol' Boys and their crisscrosses--
And not 1 knows who their real boss is!
Copyright, Dave Pollard, 2011
Note to readers: If you don't know who "Lawrie Lightsout" is, or
can't guess, contact me on the e-mail, and I will let you know.
Wants senior trustees out of here.
But "Group of 8" reeks of albatrosses,
Good Ol' Boys and their crisscrosses--
And not 1 knows who their real boss is!
Copyright, Dave Pollard, 2011
Note to readers: If you don't know who "Lawrie Lightsout" is, or
can't guess, contact me on the e-mail, and I will let you know.
Thursday, March 24, 2011
Who Are Those Masked People?
If you read either the Record Courier or the Akron Beacon Journal, you may have seen an article about a website put up by a group of Mantua Township residents--"concerned citizens," according to the RC.
The "masthead," on a background suggesting the Stars and Stripes, proclaims "We the People." But who are they?
Their spokesman, the only person named in both articles, is Brent Simon, a Hiram resident and the webmaster and videographer for the site.
The people behind it have hired Brent to design and set up the site, to the tune of over $500. They have hired him to do the things necessary to maintain the website, and I assume that they are paying him for the two hours or so that it takes to videotape the business meetings and public comment at the end of the trustees meetings.
But who are they, the people paying the bills and controlling what shows up on the site, heavily edited through 3/17/11?
Who are these people who have paid Brent to use him to speak for them while they remain faceless?
No one knows, and they don't have to tell us. They are private citizens and therefore not bound (as is every public, government body in this country) to reveal anything about themselves. So they don't have to give their names or any information about who is financing this venture.
They just use Brent, a talented young media master who is working to develop his own business. In fact, he was the featured business person at a recent Mantua area Chamber of Commerce meeting.
Who are they? We can make some reasonable deductions and then follow the money.
First, late last year Wendy Carlton, Jason's mother, announced at a trustees meeting that a domain name for the website had been purchased. (So have a number of similar names, all of them using "Mantua Township.")
Second, that out-of-context phrase from the Preamble to the Consititution is one of Dawn Pechman's favorites. (A future post will give a thumbnail sketch of propaganda techniques.)
Third, and in addition, a reputable person whose word I trust said that Dawn was involved in the editing.
Fourth, Dawn gets a copy of the official minutes as soon as Marie Stehli can complete and copy them as well as the other records requests that Dawn gives Marie at every meeting. Those minutes are then posted on the website, adding to its appearance of reporting information. So Dawn is at least the messenger.
The site's appearance. Its editing contradicts any pretense to objectivity and further implies Dawn at work. Her long-standing hostility to the trustees is clear to anyone who has attended as few as three meetings--sometimes only one. The content of the website through 3/17/11 is consistent with that bias.
Now, follow the money. Who are the people likeliest to be bankrolling the website, an addition to the township's portfolio that Jason campaigned on and which Dawn has been demanding for a couple of years?
Well, who supported Jason's campaign?
Here are their names, available on request for campaign finance information from the Portage County Board of Elections:
Wendy Carlton $400
Otto Peck $200
Alan Brugmann $100
John Festa $100
David Green $100
Wendy Brugmann $100
Jeff Van Auken $100
Tom Van Auken $100
Philip Carlton $100
Jason Carlton $1,000
Jason Carlton $100
Larry Lietzow $100
Philip Carlton $1
One donor has since moved out of the township; his name has therefore been omitted. I don't know why the last contribution was only a dollar.
The easily traceable record, available to anyone upon making a public records request, stops there. Observation of who is tight with whom in the township and who, in meetings, seems to have an agenda, suggests more, but whether that equates with plunking down money is a matter of conjecture.
Regardless of all of that, why would anyone trumpeting "We the People" conceal their identities?
Clearly, efforts have been made to make the site look official, and the flag reference is an obvious ploy.
However, only government websites use--are permitted to use-- .gov at the end of their web addresses. Without that, no matter how much lipstick is on the pig, the site is NOT OFFICIAL.
My opinion of these tactics should be clear.
The "masthead," on a background suggesting the Stars and Stripes, proclaims "We the People." But who are they?
Their spokesman, the only person named in both articles, is Brent Simon, a Hiram resident and the webmaster and videographer for the site.
The people behind it have hired Brent to design and set up the site, to the tune of over $500. They have hired him to do the things necessary to maintain the website, and I assume that they are paying him for the two hours or so that it takes to videotape the business meetings and public comment at the end of the trustees meetings.
But who are they, the people paying the bills and controlling what shows up on the site, heavily edited through 3/17/11?
Who are these people who have paid Brent to use him to speak for them while they remain faceless?
No one knows, and they don't have to tell us. They are private citizens and therefore not bound (as is every public, government body in this country) to reveal anything about themselves. So they don't have to give their names or any information about who is financing this venture.
They just use Brent, a talented young media master who is working to develop his own business. In fact, he was the featured business person at a recent Mantua area Chamber of Commerce meeting.
Who are they? We can make some reasonable deductions and then follow the money.
First, late last year Wendy Carlton, Jason's mother, announced at a trustees meeting that a domain name for the website had been purchased. (So have a number of similar names, all of them using "Mantua Township.")
Second, that out-of-context phrase from the Preamble to the Consititution is one of Dawn Pechman's favorites. (A future post will give a thumbnail sketch of propaganda techniques.)
Third, and in addition, a reputable person whose word I trust said that Dawn was involved in the editing.
Fourth, Dawn gets a copy of the official minutes as soon as Marie Stehli can complete and copy them as well as the other records requests that Dawn gives Marie at every meeting. Those minutes are then posted on the website, adding to its appearance of reporting information. So Dawn is at least the messenger.
The site's appearance. Its editing contradicts any pretense to objectivity and further implies Dawn at work. Her long-standing hostility to the trustees is clear to anyone who has attended as few as three meetings--sometimes only one. The content of the website through 3/17/11 is consistent with that bias.
Now, follow the money. Who are the people likeliest to be bankrolling the website, an addition to the township's portfolio that Jason campaigned on and which Dawn has been demanding for a couple of years?
Well, who supported Jason's campaign?
Here are their names, available on request for campaign finance information from the Portage County Board of Elections:
Wendy Carlton $400
Otto Peck $200
Alan Brugmann $100
John Festa $100
David Green $100
Wendy Brugmann $100
Jeff Van Auken $100
Tom Van Auken $100
Philip Carlton $100
Jason Carlton $1,000
Jason Carlton $100
Larry Lietzow $100
Philip Carlton $1
One donor has since moved out of the township; his name has therefore been omitted. I don't know why the last contribution was only a dollar.
The easily traceable record, available to anyone upon making a public records request, stops there. Observation of who is tight with whom in the township and who, in meetings, seems to have an agenda, suggests more, but whether that equates with plunking down money is a matter of conjecture.
Regardless of all of that, why would anyone trumpeting "We the People" conceal their identities?
Clearly, efforts have been made to make the site look official, and the flag reference is an obvious ploy.
However, only government websites use--are permitted to use-- .gov at the end of their web addresses. Without that, no matter how much lipstick is on the pig, the site is NOT OFFICIAL.
My opinion of these tactics should be clear.
Sunday, March 20, 2011
Limerick, 3/20/11
Mantua Dawn ignores meeting rules 2005-Now
Lets trustees know she thinks them fools.
The "Group of 8" supports her "work,"
Approves her antics with a smirk 2009-Now
But deny they're ALL her willing tools.
Copyright, Dave Pollard
Lets trustees know she thinks them fools.
The "Group of 8" supports her "work,"
Approves her antics with a smirk 2009-Now
But deny they're ALL her willing tools.
Copyright, Dave Pollard
Public Comment, 3/17/11 Trustees Meeting
The following discussion among the trustees is relevant to remarks at the end of Public Comment.
During Mark Hall's report, he mentioned that in the executive session during the 3/3/11 meeting, the trustees had discussed some disruptive behavior by one member of the public.
"I asked the board at the last meeting about how the board wants to respond to that and what the board feels we can do within the limits of what we are permitted to do."
Vic: We established some rules a few months ago about controlling the meetings. I still feel the same. We need to conduct our business and get through it and maintain order of the meeting. I still feel that way and feel that way about the incident at the last meeting.
Jason: I feel the same. We are here to conduct township business in an orderly fashion. We can't allow disruptions. That is my feeling.
Mark: I agree. I considered, because of the behavior, to [deny] at the next meeting the opportunity for [that person to speak in] public comment. There has to be some penalty for the behavior or it will continue.
The trustees agreed on the need for both order and for consequences if a member of the public disrupts that order.
Public Comment began at 8:45. Speakers: Robert Moody, Frank Horack, Terri Vechery, Dave Pollard.
A number of Aurora Meadows residents spoke; their comments are in the previous post (below).
Robert Moody, 11783 Mantua Center Road. Note: Mr. Moody's property and house are adjacent to the school property. The school has its own sewage treatment facility, which includes an aerator. The aerator runs as it needs to (I think) and is noisy and annoying.
Mr. Moody was inquiring about whether anything could be done to reduce the noise.
Mark: We have put mufflers on it several years ago. We can look again, perhaps at a surround or a shelter for it.
Vic: Even with a shelter, it would still have to be open on one side. We have considered a timer on it. Perhaps in one corner of the fence we could plant shrubs to muffle it. There is not much room to build on top of it. We would have to be very careful with what we would put into the ground-- there is a lot of stuff there.
Jason: Let us take a further look at it. We are willing to work with you. Keep in touch. I don't think anything is going to be foolproof, but we will try to make an effort.
Frank Horack, 4586 Winchell Road. About Aurora Meadows: I would think twice about putting your own gravel in for fill-in. It is the responsibility of the people doing the job. If you do anything, they will try to make it your fault [if there are any problems]. The more gravel you put up there, the less the contractor has to do. You should take the gravel off his bill.
Note: The sewer project is NOT a trustees' project, but has been mandated by the county; the bill or bid was presented to the county, not to the trustees. The trustees have been keeping track of the situation and have worked to maintain liaison between the residents and the county. They expressed a sense of responsibility to try to minimize the situation in Aurora Meadows.
Terri Vechery: Terri, who reports for The Community Journal, asked Marie to repeat the statement about the township's fiscal health. Terri also asked if the reserve was a cushion put in in anticipation of the local government share going away.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82. Marie, I don't think anyone has actually come out and said it, but I want to say "thank you" for the good job you have done in your tenure. So many governments think they have to spend every penny that comes in every year. Perhaps a lot of people may realize that the township has done a good job of money management.
To everyone: Please watch for the road crew working and watch for the green vests and tell your neighjbors what is going on [with patching to repair the damage from the winter]. I don't think I have seen this much water anywhere in my lifetime.
At this point, Mark Hall announced that public comment was over. But wait, there's more:
Dawn Pechman spoke up to say that Mark must have missed her.
Mark: You were not missed, Dawn. Mark explained that it was Dawn's disruptive behavior at the last meeting that had been the topic of the discussion about order and that the consequence of her behavior was to lose the opportunity to speak at this meeting.
Dawn was not pleased, and made an indignant remark to this effect: Do you mean to tell me that during National Sunshine [Law] Week, you're not going to let me speak?
That was exactly what Mark meant.
Blogger's note: Ever since I began attending meetings, in late 2004 or early 2005, Dawn has been a disruptive element in meetings. For three meetings at the end of 2010, after the trustees reminded everyone that proper order required that people remain seated for public comment, Dawn sat at the back of the room and when she was called for public comment, got up, carried her chair up to the front table, and then sat down. She completely ignored admonitions from Mark to remain seated, stating that she had a hearing loss and wanted to sit close to the trustees so she could hear.
She has also remained or tried to remain standing on one pretext or another; at this (3/17/11) meeting, Mark invited her to be seated and made sure that she did take a chair.
Further note: At the 3/3/11 meeting, Dawn sat at the side of the room on a bench there--behind Marie. Dawn was not pleased about the trustees' acceptance of the Open House Committee and, after making her comments, got up and walked quickly up behind Marie and threw a sheet of paper with her records requests on it over Marie's shoulder and onto the table. Mark remonstrated with her to sit down, and Dawn said that she was leaving.
On the surface of it, the whole thing seems minor. Cumulatively, it is not minor. Think about the old saying, "That was the straw that broke the camel's back." Up until this meeting, there have been no consequences for Dawn's behavior: one or another trustee would try to bring her to order, and she would completely ignore him and press on. That extends to not observing the 5-minute rule. And none of it seems worth it all, if you are merely reading about it in this blog. It's different if you've watched it all for a number of years.
During Mark Hall's report, he mentioned that in the executive session during the 3/3/11 meeting, the trustees had discussed some disruptive behavior by one member of the public.
"I asked the board at the last meeting about how the board wants to respond to that and what the board feels we can do within the limits of what we are permitted to do."
Vic: We established some rules a few months ago about controlling the meetings. I still feel the same. We need to conduct our business and get through it and maintain order of the meeting. I still feel that way and feel that way about the incident at the last meeting.
Jason: I feel the same. We are here to conduct township business in an orderly fashion. We can't allow disruptions. That is my feeling.
Mark: I agree. I considered, because of the behavior, to [deny] at the next meeting the opportunity for [that person to speak in] public comment. There has to be some penalty for the behavior or it will continue.
The trustees agreed on the need for both order and for consequences if a member of the public disrupts that order.
Public Comment began at 8:45. Speakers: Robert Moody, Frank Horack, Terri Vechery, Dave Pollard.
A number of Aurora Meadows residents spoke; their comments are in the previous post (below).
Robert Moody, 11783 Mantua Center Road. Note: Mr. Moody's property and house are adjacent to the school property. The school has its own sewage treatment facility, which includes an aerator. The aerator runs as it needs to (I think) and is noisy and annoying.
Mr. Moody was inquiring about whether anything could be done to reduce the noise.
Mark: We have put mufflers on it several years ago. We can look again, perhaps at a surround or a shelter for it.
Vic: Even with a shelter, it would still have to be open on one side. We have considered a timer on it. Perhaps in one corner of the fence we could plant shrubs to muffle it. There is not much room to build on top of it. We would have to be very careful with what we would put into the ground-- there is a lot of stuff there.
Jason: Let us take a further look at it. We are willing to work with you. Keep in touch. I don't think anything is going to be foolproof, but we will try to make an effort.
Frank Horack, 4586 Winchell Road. About Aurora Meadows: I would think twice about putting your own gravel in for fill-in. It is the responsibility of the people doing the job. If you do anything, they will try to make it your fault [if there are any problems]. The more gravel you put up there, the less the contractor has to do. You should take the gravel off his bill.
Note: The sewer project is NOT a trustees' project, but has been mandated by the county; the bill or bid was presented to the county, not to the trustees. The trustees have been keeping track of the situation and have worked to maintain liaison between the residents and the county. They expressed a sense of responsibility to try to minimize the situation in Aurora Meadows.
Terri Vechery: Terri, who reports for The Community Journal, asked Marie to repeat the statement about the township's fiscal health. Terri also asked if the reserve was a cushion put in in anticipation of the local government share going away.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82. Marie, I don't think anyone has actually come out and said it, but I want to say "thank you" for the good job you have done in your tenure. So many governments think they have to spend every penny that comes in every year. Perhaps a lot of people may realize that the township has done a good job of money management.
To everyone: Please watch for the road crew working and watch for the green vests and tell your neighjbors what is going on [with patching to repair the damage from the winter]. I don't think I have seen this much water anywhere in my lifetime.
At this point, Mark Hall announced that public comment was over. But wait, there's more:
Dawn Pechman spoke up to say that Mark must have missed her.
Mark: You were not missed, Dawn. Mark explained that it was Dawn's disruptive behavior at the last meeting that had been the topic of the discussion about order and that the consequence of her behavior was to lose the opportunity to speak at this meeting.
Dawn was not pleased, and made an indignant remark to this effect: Do you mean to tell me that during National Sunshine [Law] Week, you're not going to let me speak?
That was exactly what Mark meant.
Blogger's note: Ever since I began attending meetings, in late 2004 or early 2005, Dawn has been a disruptive element in meetings. For three meetings at the end of 2010, after the trustees reminded everyone that proper order required that people remain seated for public comment, Dawn sat at the back of the room and when she was called for public comment, got up, carried her chair up to the front table, and then sat down. She completely ignored admonitions from Mark to remain seated, stating that she had a hearing loss and wanted to sit close to the trustees so she could hear.
She has also remained or tried to remain standing on one pretext or another; at this (3/17/11) meeting, Mark invited her to be seated and made sure that she did take a chair.
Further note: At the 3/3/11 meeting, Dawn sat at the side of the room on a bench there--behind Marie. Dawn was not pleased about the trustees' acceptance of the Open House Committee and, after making her comments, got up and walked quickly up behind Marie and threw a sheet of paper with her records requests on it over Marie's shoulder and onto the table. Mark remonstrated with her to sit down, and Dawn said that she was leaving.
On the surface of it, the whole thing seems minor. Cumulatively, it is not minor. Think about the old saying, "That was the straw that broke the camel's back." Up until this meeting, there have been no consequences for Dawn's behavior: one or another trustee would try to bring her to order, and she would completely ignore him and press on. That extends to not observing the 5-minute rule. And none of it seems worth it all, if you are merely reading about it in this blog. It's different if you've watched it all for a number of years.
Fiscal Status, Mantua Township, 3/17/11
At the 3/3/11 trustees meeting, Dawn questioned Marie at considerable length about the township's cash reserve and what was going to be done with it. That is in the post for 3/3/11--the substance, if not every sentence.
At the 3/17/11 meeting, Marie read the following statement after giving the financial report:
"I listened to Governor Kasich's town hall meeting the other night. He indicated that we would be losing 25% of the Local Government Fund revenues this year, and another 25% next year. The Local Government Fund accounts for 17% of our General Fund Revenue budget.
"A 25% reduction = $11,655 in General Fund cuts this year, and again next year, or a 5% cut in our General Fund revenue budget. Because we have employed sound fiscal management and have planned for this very event, Mantua Township will remain financially sound through this budget event. Dawn asked why we have a large balance each month. It is for this very reason. While cities and villages around us struggle with the question of financial solvency, I am pleased to say that Mantua Township will weather the storm."
Two notes: First, the cut is one 25% cut that will apply to this year and next, not a total 50% cut.
Second, the content above is exactly as Marie wrote the statement. The paragraphing is different because of my sketchy computer skills. As Miss Piggy said, "NEVer mind."
At the 3/17/11 meeting, Marie read the following statement after giving the financial report:
"I listened to Governor Kasich's town hall meeting the other night. He indicated that we would be losing 25% of the Local Government Fund revenues this year, and another 25% next year. The Local Government Fund accounts for 17% of our General Fund Revenue budget.
"A 25% reduction = $11,655 in General Fund cuts this year, and again next year, or a 5% cut in our General Fund revenue budget. Because we have employed sound fiscal management and have planned for this very event, Mantua Township will remain financially sound through this budget event. Dawn asked why we have a large balance each month. It is for this very reason. While cities and villages around us struggle with the question of financial solvency, I am pleased to say that Mantua Township will weather the storm."
Two notes: First, the cut is one 25% cut that will apply to this year and next, not a total 50% cut.
Second, the content above is exactly as Marie wrote the statement. The paragraphing is different because of my sketchy computer skills. As Miss Piggy said, "NEVer mind."
Friday, March 18, 2011
Public Comment 3/17/11: Aurora Meadows concerns
A number of residents of Aurora Meadows came to inform the trustees about conditions in their neighborhood because of the sewer project digging and ditching.
Rather than being an individual statement from each person, this part of the post is going to be mostly a compilation of what the residents reported about the conditions that they are dealing with right now.
1. The roads are trashed.
2. Some of the trenches have 6" pipe; some have 12" pipe; in some, the pipe is crushed and there is no drainage at all; in some places a 12" pipe is feeding into a 6" pipe; some of the pipes are 1-1/2 feet above the bottom of the ditch/trench. If this is not corrected, mosquitoes are going to be a MAJOR problem. The drainage was bad before; with the prospect of even more rain, things look as if they will get even worse.
3. There was a question about the actual date when residents could expect that work would be done on their properties.
Answer: The company has an extension until July 15 for substantial completion, and August ? (missed that date) for final completion. Then from July 15 to December (I did not get that date), residents can hook up. It is supposed to be possible for everyone to begin using the system by the end of December.
4. There was a question about the wells. Answer: The wells stay the same; this is only a sewage system. Downspouts are not supposed to drain into the new system.
5. The project engineer and the site manager both told one resident that the company will restore the property to its original condition but the township is responsible for re-ditching, and the company is not responsible for the roads.
6. A question was raised about a rumor/report that the township was supposed to help people pay for the hookups.
Answer: There is a 504 program through the USDA. A hearing will be scheduled at the Civic Center to discuss this with residents. Notice of the hearing/meeting will be by means of door hanger tags (?) cards(?)--anyhow, by direct delivery to residents.
7. There was a concern about the cost to retirees, and also apprehension about whether the company was going to take a few unusual driveway and property configurations into account.
Responses to the above issues:
Mark Hall has already spoken to the company about what looks like larger pipes feeding into smaller ones; he has been told that the company is not yet done with the driveway culvert pickups (?) or finishing the grade.
Vic: According to the company, the minimum pipe diameter is 12". Mark has attended the last two meetings, and both Vic and Mark have gone over all of the specifications carefully.
Vic: The company has gotten an extension on the work and now is supposed to finish it by July 15. From July 15-December, residents can hook up. At the end of December, everyone should be able to use the new system.
Mark: Residents' old systems would only be crushed after everything was determined to be flowing properly. The EPA has given residents the time to hook up.
About resurfacing/paving the roads: Aurora Meadows is scheduled for this work in two years. In regard to the ditching, my (Mark) correspondence with the county indicates that the water is supposed to be flowing correctly. I am not convinced that the township has the full responsibility for the ditches.
Mark said he would ask the county about whether residents will be notified about when they can tie in to the system.
Vic: The company is to maintain/return the roads to the condition they were before beginning. Somehow we need to help maintain them, even though it is a county project. We have been trying to stay on top of it.
Vic, continued: I know it is the responsibility of the contractor, but we have a responsibility to keep roads passable for the residents. One gentleman has been very helpful and I will talk to him in the morning. Keep calling us and let us know what is going on. We can get back to the county and try to maintain this through this wet season. There was some discussion about using some of the township's gravel to help fill in some of the worst spots.
The 504 program applies to other things about your house, [not just the sewage system]. Vic offered to send information to a resident about that program.
To repeat: Meeting for Aurora Meadows residents at 7p.m. April 11 at the Civic Center regarding the project.
Blogger's note: Considering how stressful and unpleasant conditions sounded, it was impressive to see how civil and objective the residents were who came to the meeting.
Rather than being an individual statement from each person, this part of the post is going to be mostly a compilation of what the residents reported about the conditions that they are dealing with right now.
1. The roads are trashed.
2. Some of the trenches have 6" pipe; some have 12" pipe; in some, the pipe is crushed and there is no drainage at all; in some places a 12" pipe is feeding into a 6" pipe; some of the pipes are 1-1/2 feet above the bottom of the ditch/trench. If this is not corrected, mosquitoes are going to be a MAJOR problem. The drainage was bad before; with the prospect of even more rain, things look as if they will get even worse.
3. There was a question about the actual date when residents could expect that work would be done on their properties.
Answer: The company has an extension until July 15 for substantial completion, and August ? (missed that date) for final completion. Then from July 15 to December (I did not get that date), residents can hook up. It is supposed to be possible for everyone to begin using the system by the end of December.
4. There was a question about the wells. Answer: The wells stay the same; this is only a sewage system. Downspouts are not supposed to drain into the new system.
5. The project engineer and the site manager both told one resident that the company will restore the property to its original condition but the township is responsible for re-ditching, and the company is not responsible for the roads.
6. A question was raised about a rumor/report that the township was supposed to help people pay for the hookups.
Answer: There is a 504 program through the USDA. A hearing will be scheduled at the Civic Center to discuss this with residents. Notice of the hearing/meeting will be by means of door hanger tags (?) cards(?)--anyhow, by direct delivery to residents.
7. There was a concern about the cost to retirees, and also apprehension about whether the company was going to take a few unusual driveway and property configurations into account.
Responses to the above issues:
Mark Hall has already spoken to the company about what looks like larger pipes feeding into smaller ones; he has been told that the company is not yet done with the driveway culvert pickups (?) or finishing the grade.
Vic: According to the company, the minimum pipe diameter is 12". Mark has attended the last two meetings, and both Vic and Mark have gone over all of the specifications carefully.
Vic: The company has gotten an extension on the work and now is supposed to finish it by July 15. From July 15-December, residents can hook up. At the end of December, everyone should be able to use the new system.
Mark: Residents' old systems would only be crushed after everything was determined to be flowing properly. The EPA has given residents the time to hook up.
About resurfacing/paving the roads: Aurora Meadows is scheduled for this work in two years. In regard to the ditching, my (Mark) correspondence with the county indicates that the water is supposed to be flowing correctly. I am not convinced that the township has the full responsibility for the ditches.
Mark said he would ask the county about whether residents will be notified about when they can tie in to the system.
Vic: The company is to maintain/return the roads to the condition they were before beginning. Somehow we need to help maintain them, even though it is a county project. We have been trying to stay on top of it.
Vic, continued: I know it is the responsibility of the contractor, but we have a responsibility to keep roads passable for the residents. One gentleman has been very helpful and I will talk to him in the morning. Keep calling us and let us know what is going on. We can get back to the county and try to maintain this through this wet season. There was some discussion about using some of the township's gravel to help fill in some of the worst spots.
The 504 program applies to other things about your house, [not just the sewage system]. Vic offered to send information to a resident about that program.
To repeat: Meeting for Aurora Meadows residents at 7p.m. April 11 at the Civic Center regarding the project.
Blogger's note: Considering how stressful and unpleasant conditions sounded, it was impressive to see how civil and objective the residents were who came to the meeting.
Thursday, March 17, 2011
Fact Checker at Work: The Township School
The Claim, 2/3/11: The Center (Township) school is the worst of the elementary buildings that were sold. (The others were the Village School, the Shalersville building, and the Hiram school.) Graham Harmon made the statement.
Facts and History
The school was built in 1912. In response or reaction to the terrible 1908 Collinwood School Fire*, it was built entirely of concrete, including the bell tower. Wooden floors were laid over the concrete ones, which were sloped a bit towards center drains.
When the Crestwood School District was working to get a levy passed for a new school building, with the intention of closing the outlying buildings, tours of the elementary schools were conducted. John Vechery toured the Center school, which he had attended, and told me that the Crestwood administrator talked about the poor condition of the school, as indicated by the fact that the wooden floors "sagged."
John said that he differed on the spot, and explained how the school had been built and why the wooden floors apparently sagged. He also said that after that there were no more derogatory remarks about the poor condition of the school. Mr. Harmon was not in that tour; I do not know whether he was in any tour of the building.
Before the Mantua Township Trustees decided to buy the Township school, two inspections were conducted. The first was paid for jointly by the Crestwood Local School District, and the second was contracted by the trustees with an independent firm. The owner of that firm was the Building Commissioner of the City of Bedford at the time. His business card lists him as a certified building and electrical inspector. According to Vic, that inspection took nearly 5 hours and went from top to bottom, side to side, and included pulling various inspection panels.
Both inspections certified that the school was sound. The main requirement was to bring it up to Americans with Disabilities Act standards. Meeting those requirements is ongoing, and a major part of the effort to renovate the building for use.
The foundations have not shifted. At the high school, however, first occupied in 1956-57, at least one of the end walls is pulling away from the rest of the building; and leaks have occurred in one of the downstairs rooms that houses equipment.
At the Village School, two trenches were cut through the boys' locker room and filled with gravel. Drain tile laid into the gravel carried away water that ran through that area regularly because of the site and the building's placement on it.
The Hiram school was purchased by a private party, let fall into disrepair while it stood vacant, and was recently slated for demolition.
In short, the Mantua Township School is structurally more sound at 100 than three newer buildings.--sound enough to be a viable choice for township offices and activities.
The building has been described by a master traditional wood craftsman as one of the most beautiful in Northeast Ohio
.
Other information and facts about the Mantua Township School will be presented here from time to time.
*You can read more by using Google or Wikkipedia. Key in "Collinwood School Fire."
Facts and History
The school was built in 1912. In response or reaction to the terrible 1908 Collinwood School Fire*, it was built entirely of concrete, including the bell tower. Wooden floors were laid over the concrete ones, which were sloped a bit towards center drains.
When the Crestwood School District was working to get a levy passed for a new school building, with the intention of closing the outlying buildings, tours of the elementary schools were conducted. John Vechery toured the Center school, which he had attended, and told me that the Crestwood administrator talked about the poor condition of the school, as indicated by the fact that the wooden floors "sagged."
John said that he differed on the spot, and explained how the school had been built and why the wooden floors apparently sagged. He also said that after that there were no more derogatory remarks about the poor condition of the school. Mr. Harmon was not in that tour; I do not know whether he was in any tour of the building.
Before the Mantua Township Trustees decided to buy the Township school, two inspections were conducted. The first was paid for jointly by the Crestwood Local School District, and the second was contracted by the trustees with an independent firm. The owner of that firm was the Building Commissioner of the City of Bedford at the time. His business card lists him as a certified building and electrical inspector. According to Vic, that inspection took nearly 5 hours and went from top to bottom, side to side, and included pulling various inspection panels.
Both inspections certified that the school was sound. The main requirement was to bring it up to Americans with Disabilities Act standards. Meeting those requirements is ongoing, and a major part of the effort to renovate the building for use.
The foundations have not shifted. At the high school, however, first occupied in 1956-57, at least one of the end walls is pulling away from the rest of the building; and leaks have occurred in one of the downstairs rooms that houses equipment.
At the Village School, two trenches were cut through the boys' locker room and filled with gravel. Drain tile laid into the gravel carried away water that ran through that area regularly because of the site and the building's placement on it.
The Hiram school was purchased by a private party, let fall into disrepair while it stood vacant, and was recently slated for demolition.
In short, the Mantua Township School is structurally more sound at 100 than three newer buildings.--sound enough to be a viable choice for township offices and activities.
The building has been described by a master traditional wood craftsman as one of the most beautiful in Northeast Ohio
.
Other information and facts about the Mantua Township School will be presented here from time to time.
*You can read more by using Google or Wikkipedia. Key in "Collinwood School Fire."
Saturday, March 12, 2011
Public Comment 3/3/11
Speakers: Frank Horack, Larry Lietzow, Dave Pollard, Carole Pollard, Dawn Pechman, John Festa, Roger Hurd
Frank Horack, 4586 Winchell Road: Why are the public comments not put into the minutes? I would like to make a request that they be put in.// Frank said that he had not been at the last meeting and would like to hear what the residents were interested in.
Also--about this open house--I think it will be a good idea once the annex is done and that you open up the rest of the building so the public can see what needs to be done, what has to be done, or is going to be done [on the old section of the building.] I think it would bea good time for them [the public] to go through then. [Do you have] any comment on that?
Jason: I have no problem with that.
Frank: Does anyone else on the board have a problem with that?
Mark: For what is going on with it now I don't think there should be an issue with that.
Vic: We are supposed to close off that one section.
Frank: I would kike to interject at this time [that] I don't see no big safety issue for the public not to go in there. The only thing that I saw that was a problem in there was a little debris that could be cleaned up.
I don't know if you['ve] got a personal agenda for not putting the public in there or what it is but I would sure like to know. I would like to know why the public can not go in there at this time. If you refuse to put them in there, say so.
Mark: I will have a better idea when it gets to be that time, about what is going on.
Frank: When is that going to change compared to the open house?
Mark: I don't think anything will change other than cleanup that would be necessary in that area. For . . . right now I don't think that there would be an issue in that area.
Frank: So if things don't change it's OK if the public goes in there. Does anybody else have an issue with it?
Vic: I have to follow up and see what part of the building is done, We know that part won't be done
Frank: You want to keep the public out of there for some reason, and I don't understand it.
Vic: I never said that.
Frank: You have been putting it off and off for not having a time for the public. [This is the jist, but not verbatim.]
Vic: No, it was for an individual. We are talking about a different thing. [Blogger's note: The individual was Alan Brugmann, in December.]
Frank: Yes or no.
Vic: At this time, no.
Frank: To Jim Aldrich, sitting next to him, and basically under his breath--I've got to go.
[Blogger's note: Frank sounded increasingly heated as his comments went on.]
Larry Lietzow: I would like to have the answer to Frank's question about public comment--why we do not have public comment in the minutes. I would like a vote on that.
Jason: I don't have any issue with it as far as a paraphrase is concerned. . . . . I don't know if that would be an extraordinary burden on you (Marie).
Marie: Minutes only need to have a record of motions made and passed.
Vic: It will become word for word.
Mark: To me it does not make any real difference except that people will want to go word for word.
Jason: I never mentioned word for word.
Vic: It will come up.
Mark: We could do/list general subject matter [of public comment].
Marie: As long as you guiys keep the 5 minute rule.
Mark: [We could just] list the topics.
Larry Lietzow: Did you vote on it?
Mark: We are in agreement on it--that we will list the topics. The three of us are in agreement to give it a try.
Larry: One more. A few months ago you had two couples up here that wanted a No Jake Brake sign. Some months ago, Vic--do you remember when it was? [Blogger's note: the words are almost neutral. The tone was not.]
Vic: That sign is up, Larry.
Larry: Oh. I haven't noticed
Terri Vechery: I just wanted to go over the dates and times of the meetings because there were so many of them. [Terri reports for the Community Journal and wanted to be accurate.]
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: Terri Vechery did a good job of laying out the intent of the people who volunteered to form the committee for the open house.
Jason, we are all of an age on this committee that we predate mission statements. We want to make it a positive day for the township. All of us grew up when you developed a plan, kicked it around, and decided. That is what we want to do--take the burden off of you.
We are all on the same page: to be supportive of the plan and what [the trustees] have done. I think we have all agreed that we probably can make this a very positive day for the township and that when the rest of the building or the next section is finished, people can look forward to the same kind of thing. We have enough volunteers to carry it off.
It would have been nice to have it done a couple of years before, but the NOPEC grant gave us $50,000 that we did not have then.
Carole Pollard, 5359 Allyn Road: I think if you look at most procedures for minutes, there is not even required to be any discussion even by the people on the board. It is a list of motions made and actions taken.
Jason, I am kind of surprised that you did not mention the website for that request of Larry Lietzow's, because people would be able to hear themselves, their tone of voice, [in] full living color and they could get the full flavor of the meetings, rather than the carefully, carefully, carefully selected things that are on there now.
I have had occasion to do transcriptions of meetings. A month ago Graham [Harmon] spoke for 17 minutes in spite of being reminded that there is a 5-minute limit. Apparently his 5 properties entitle him to more time. I had occasion to type up [his remarks]. It took 3 hours to get it all word for word and that is after recording it or taking it down.
The burden that puts on the secretary is completely unreasonable. I agree that the first thing would be just the topics. After that it would be one thing after another. Then when people found out how incoherent they sound if you go word for word, then they will complain about that. Almost none of us speak as brilliantly and as logically and as coherently as we think we are. So I think that is a can of worms and the camel's nose under the tent: pretty soon the whole camel is in there with you.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 SR 82: I was supposed to get some answers.
Jason: about education. I spoke with Dave Summers and will meet with him next week. Elementary education has a specifications manual about 3" thick in the building code. . . . I am going to sit down with Dave Summers at no charge. I do not know when that will be. I do plan to sit down with him as soon as he is feeling well. (Dave has had some health issues--blogger.) Jason added that daycare was listed under E--Education--but that adult education came under B--Business, a whole different thing. Jason said before that a change of classification was a mess in terms of how time consuming it is.
Dawn: I found out that the chief building official does not care what age the persons being educated are and that working on the building can not continue past the first [of April]. I think it would be a good idea for the trustees to consider it before the open house what is actually going to happen there and I have asked for adult education to be considered before.
Dawn: I have just heard about the open house for the first time at the last meeting and I guess what is the open house supposed to be about--the annex or the basement?
Mark: If at all possible, I would like to have it for both areas.
Dawn: I think that is where the planning comes in and also as far as who gets to plan the open house I think that is something that needs to be reconsidered. Only one person had the opportunity to stand up and hand things out before Public Comment. What about my plan here or, say, Roger's plan. I think it is very important that it be included. The other thing I wanted to ask about right now is the amount of money being appropriated for the school.
Mark: $95,000.
Dawn questioned Marie repetitively and at length about the carryover from year to year and also about the amount that the township has in its reserve. She also wanted to know why that money couldn't be spent on the school. She asked what the trustees were planning to do with the $832,000 that was discussed during the budget portion of the meeting: were the trustees going to purchase someting or buy a building.
The Fiscal Officer's report, always first on the agenda, included 30 minutes of discussion with the trustees about the budget for the rest of 2011 and to March 1, 2012. DURING THAT DISCUSSION, DAWN WAS READING A NEWSPAPER. [Do you think that may have had something to do with her cluelessness about what was being done with the Township's finances? I apologixe to you, readers, for my sarcasm--but not for being disgusted. By now, all of us should be used to it: Dawn has been like this since I began attending meetings sometime late in 2004 or so.]
Dawn did not seem to understand how the budget works, and there was a lot of back and forth with little or no resolution.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: Praised Jason on chairing the 2/17 meeting.
John Festa: Vic, I heard you say that you are opposed to letting people into the building. [Blogger: Eh?]
I asked you if you would get it on paper about not letting anyone go through the building. I asked you if you would get it in writing. [Vic had asked Mr. Festa to see whatever papers or policy he had at the 2/17 meeting, but Mr. Festa left without doing that.]
Vic: I have not received anything. I talked to him. I asked him if he wanted to put something in writing. We talked about the construction area and the open house. He said that he would like to see the open house when we have it. He is not asking to be taken through the building. We have an audit every time we go through there, and it takes 6 hours to go through it.
John Festa: I would like for you to get me a statement from the insurance company that we can not go through there. I read the policy and can not see where it says that.
Vic: Interpretation. That's why we go through our agent. I have talked to him a couple of times and I do not know how many years we have to go through this issue.
Roger Hurd, Center Road: I just don't think that the trustees need to bow to every demand made by the residents of the township. At some point it gets to be a little ridiculous. I don't know how to put it into words. Last time I said something about just a casual resident [wanting] to go through the school, and I said that [there was] no useful reason [to do that]. I want to change that to no legitimate reason. I think [that for] people who want to go through now, it is very apparent that people only want to find fault.
Roger: Minutes are actionable things by the trustees, and if you consider putting in public comment, that is not properly part of the minutes submitted to the trustees. So when the minutes are read the comments do not have to be read back. This is getting out of hand.
Dawn Pechman: Could I ask one more question, please.
Mark: No, you're done.
Mark: Further comment about the minutes: As I understand the law, all that is needed is motions and actions. I am not going to let this snowball out of hand.
Dawn got up to leave (the meeting had not been adjourned), approached from behind Marie, and gave her a list of records requests. Mark remonstrated with her, and she said that she was leaving. Several people more or less under their breath voiced approval of her departure.
Frank Horack, 4586 Winchell Road: Why are the public comments not put into the minutes? I would like to make a request that they be put in.// Frank said that he had not been at the last meeting and would like to hear what the residents were interested in.
Also--about this open house--I think it will be a good idea once the annex is done and that you open up the rest of the building so the public can see what needs to be done, what has to be done, or is going to be done [on the old section of the building.] I think it would bea good time for them [the public] to go through then. [Do you have] any comment on that?
Jason: I have no problem with that.
Frank: Does anyone else on the board have a problem with that?
Mark: For what is going on with it now I don't think there should be an issue with that.
Vic: We are supposed to close off that one section.
Frank: I would kike to interject at this time [that] I don't see no big safety issue for the public not to go in there. The only thing that I saw that was a problem in there was a little debris that could be cleaned up.
I don't know if you['ve] got a personal agenda for not putting the public in there or what it is but I would sure like to know. I would like to know why the public can not go in there at this time. If you refuse to put them in there, say so.
Mark: I will have a better idea when it gets to be that time, about what is going on.
Frank: When is that going to change compared to the open house?
Mark: I don't think anything will change other than cleanup that would be necessary in that area. For . . . right now I don't think that there would be an issue in that area.
Frank: So if things don't change it's OK if the public goes in there. Does anybody else have an issue with it?
Vic: I have to follow up and see what part of the building is done, We know that part won't be done
Frank: You want to keep the public out of there for some reason, and I don't understand it.
Vic: I never said that.
Frank: You have been putting it off and off for not having a time for the public. [This is the jist, but not verbatim.]
Vic: No, it was for an individual. We are talking about a different thing. [Blogger's note: The individual was Alan Brugmann, in December.]
Frank: Yes or no.
Vic: At this time, no.
Frank: To Jim Aldrich, sitting next to him, and basically under his breath--I've got to go.
[Blogger's note: Frank sounded increasingly heated as his comments went on.]
Larry Lietzow: I would like to have the answer to Frank's question about public comment--why we do not have public comment in the minutes. I would like a vote on that.
Jason: I don't have any issue with it as far as a paraphrase is concerned. . . . . I don't know if that would be an extraordinary burden on you (Marie).
Marie: Minutes only need to have a record of motions made and passed.
Vic: It will become word for word.
Mark: To me it does not make any real difference except that people will want to go word for word.
Jason: I never mentioned word for word.
Vic: It will come up.
Mark: We could do/list general subject matter [of public comment].
Marie: As long as you guiys keep the 5 minute rule.
Mark: [We could just] list the topics.
Larry Lietzow: Did you vote on it?
Mark: We are in agreement on it--that we will list the topics. The three of us are in agreement to give it a try.
Larry: One more. A few months ago you had two couples up here that wanted a No Jake Brake sign. Some months ago, Vic--do you remember when it was? [Blogger's note: the words are almost neutral. The tone was not.]
Vic: That sign is up, Larry.
Larry: Oh. I haven't noticed
Terri Vechery: I just wanted to go over the dates and times of the meetings because there were so many of them. [Terri reports for the Community Journal and wanted to be accurate.]
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: Terri Vechery did a good job of laying out the intent of the people who volunteered to form the committee for the open house.
Jason, we are all of an age on this committee that we predate mission statements. We want to make it a positive day for the township. All of us grew up when you developed a plan, kicked it around, and decided. That is what we want to do--take the burden off of you.
We are all on the same page: to be supportive of the plan and what [the trustees] have done. I think we have all agreed that we probably can make this a very positive day for the township and that when the rest of the building or the next section is finished, people can look forward to the same kind of thing. We have enough volunteers to carry it off.
It would have been nice to have it done a couple of years before, but the NOPEC grant gave us $50,000 that we did not have then.
Carole Pollard, 5359 Allyn Road: I think if you look at most procedures for minutes, there is not even required to be any discussion even by the people on the board. It is a list of motions made and actions taken.
Jason, I am kind of surprised that you did not mention the website for that request of Larry Lietzow's, because people would be able to hear themselves, their tone of voice, [in] full living color and they could get the full flavor of the meetings, rather than the carefully, carefully, carefully selected things that are on there now.
I have had occasion to do transcriptions of meetings. A month ago Graham [Harmon] spoke for 17 minutes in spite of being reminded that there is a 5-minute limit. Apparently his 5 properties entitle him to more time. I had occasion to type up [his remarks]. It took 3 hours to get it all word for word and that is after recording it or taking it down.
The burden that puts on the secretary is completely unreasonable. I agree that the first thing would be just the topics. After that it would be one thing after another. Then when people found out how incoherent they sound if you go word for word, then they will complain about that. Almost none of us speak as brilliantly and as logically and as coherently as we think we are. So I think that is a can of worms and the camel's nose under the tent: pretty soon the whole camel is in there with you.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 SR 82: I was supposed to get some answers.
Jason: about education. I spoke with Dave Summers and will meet with him next week. Elementary education has a specifications manual about 3" thick in the building code. . . . I am going to sit down with Dave Summers at no charge. I do not know when that will be. I do plan to sit down with him as soon as he is feeling well. (Dave has had some health issues--blogger.) Jason added that daycare was listed under E--Education--but that adult education came under B--Business, a whole different thing. Jason said before that a change of classification was a mess in terms of how time consuming it is.
Dawn: I found out that the chief building official does not care what age the persons being educated are and that working on the building can not continue past the first [of April]. I think it would be a good idea for the trustees to consider it before the open house what is actually going to happen there and I have asked for adult education to be considered before.
Dawn: I have just heard about the open house for the first time at the last meeting and I guess what is the open house supposed to be about--the annex or the basement?
Mark: If at all possible, I would like to have it for both areas.
Dawn: I think that is where the planning comes in and also as far as who gets to plan the open house I think that is something that needs to be reconsidered. Only one person had the opportunity to stand up and hand things out before Public Comment. What about my plan here or, say, Roger's plan. I think it is very important that it be included. The other thing I wanted to ask about right now is the amount of money being appropriated for the school.
Mark: $95,000.
Dawn questioned Marie repetitively and at length about the carryover from year to year and also about the amount that the township has in its reserve. She also wanted to know why that money couldn't be spent on the school. She asked what the trustees were planning to do with the $832,000 that was discussed during the budget portion of the meeting: were the trustees going to purchase someting or buy a building.
The Fiscal Officer's report, always first on the agenda, included 30 minutes of discussion with the trustees about the budget for the rest of 2011 and to March 1, 2012. DURING THAT DISCUSSION, DAWN WAS READING A NEWSPAPER. [Do you think that may have had something to do with her cluelessness about what was being done with the Township's finances? I apologixe to you, readers, for my sarcasm--but not for being disgusted. By now, all of us should be used to it: Dawn has been like this since I began attending meetings sometime late in 2004 or so.]
Dawn did not seem to understand how the budget works, and there was a lot of back and forth with little or no resolution.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: Praised Jason on chairing the 2/17 meeting.
John Festa: Vic, I heard you say that you are opposed to letting people into the building. [Blogger: Eh?]
I asked you if you would get it on paper about not letting anyone go through the building. I asked you if you would get it in writing. [Vic had asked Mr. Festa to see whatever papers or policy he had at the 2/17 meeting, but Mr. Festa left without doing that.]
Vic: I have not received anything. I talked to him. I asked him if he wanted to put something in writing. We talked about the construction area and the open house. He said that he would like to see the open house when we have it. He is not asking to be taken through the building. We have an audit every time we go through there, and it takes 6 hours to go through it.
John Festa: I would like for you to get me a statement from the insurance company that we can not go through there. I read the policy and can not see where it says that.
Vic: Interpretation. That's why we go through our agent. I have talked to him a couple of times and I do not know how many years we have to go through this issue.
Roger Hurd, Center Road: I just don't think that the trustees need to bow to every demand made by the residents of the township. At some point it gets to be a little ridiculous. I don't know how to put it into words. Last time I said something about just a casual resident [wanting] to go through the school, and I said that [there was] no useful reason [to do that]. I want to change that to no legitimate reason. I think [that for] people who want to go through now, it is very apparent that people only want to find fault.
Roger: Minutes are actionable things by the trustees, and if you consider putting in public comment, that is not properly part of the minutes submitted to the trustees. So when the minutes are read the comments do not have to be read back. This is getting out of hand.
Dawn Pechman: Could I ask one more question, please.
Mark: No, you're done.
Mark: Further comment about the minutes: As I understand the law, all that is needed is motions and actions. I am not going to let this snowball out of hand.
Dawn got up to leave (the meeting had not been adjourned), approached from behind Marie, and gave her a list of records requests. Mark remonstrated with her, and she said that she was leaving. Several people more or less under their breath voiced approval of her departure.
Open House Committee inception 3/3/11
This was the meeting when Terri Vechery presented the members of the volunteer residents' committee to put on an Open House to celebrate the opening of the Center School for the first phase of use as a center of township activities. I thought that you might like to see what went on before the proposal was accepted. Also, the Record Courier for March 12 carried the press release.
The proposal took all three trustees by surprise, and there was some discussion about the whole thing.
Jason: This is the first I have heard of it.
Mark: I'm with you.
Jason: I have never heard of this committee before. There are a lot of unknowns--I don't feel I can commit to anything. Right now we don't even have the bids out for the other portion[s] of the [project]. That's where I am at.
Vic: I can not give a completion date, . . . but I would like to follow up on it as we progress.
Terri lobbied the trustees and explained further why we wanted to do this, how it would work, and how we would go about it. She stated clearly that we would not expect to go into the building until the morning of the open house. She also mentioned that the sheer details, as well as proper publicity, required a decent lead time.
Jason: I think an open house is going to be in order any way that you would look at it. The only thing is that I don't know anything about the committee. [Terri had read off the names of the members, all of whom have been going to and commenting at trustees meetings regularly, blogger's note.] I see that there are 7 people on the committee. Do you have a mission statement?
Terri: "This is a volunteer group; you have to start somewhere. We decided on this, and I am going to head it up. . . ." Terri mentioned that we already have been assured of help from others willing to volunteer, and planned on asking for some kind of support from the Garden Club, Historical Society, and perhaps the LCA. She said that on the day of the open house the trustees should have nothing more on their minds than to meet and mingle with the people.
Mark: Thought that the team (committee) should just go ahead and initiate the groundwork, providing details as we go along. "I would like to see this become a reality and for the team to go ahead and begin the ground work."
Vic: I will follow up on our insurance--I have already discussed this idea with our insurance compnay and they would like to be invited. [Blogger's note: The idea of an open house is not new; it had come up for the Portage County something-centennial celebration, but the building was nowhere near completion then.]
Mark asked for comments from the other trustees.
Vic: I have no problem starting the foundation on this.
Terri promised regular updates.
Mark: What do you think, Jason?
Jason: I would like to see if you guys [the committee, I think--blogger] do go forward on this the trustees have final say on what occurs.
Terri: That is the point with the report, so that you know where we are every two weeks.
Jason: recommended advertising on the residents' website. "An open house is in order--you guys are doing all of the legwork that the trustees would have to do."
Mark: Also, you have some fluidity and will have more volunteers who will come in.
"So we seem to have a concensus of laying the foundation and things will merge together."
To Terri: "Thank you."
In case you, the reader, didn't see an earlier post about the Open House Committee, here are the members:
Terri Vechery, Sue Skrovan, Roger Hurd, John Vechery, Dave Pollard, Carol Srajer, Carole Pollard. Check the Archive in the right hand column to read that entry.
The proposal took all three trustees by surprise, and there was some discussion about the whole thing.
Jason: This is the first I have heard of it.
Mark: I'm with you.
Jason: I have never heard of this committee before. There are a lot of unknowns--I don't feel I can commit to anything. Right now we don't even have the bids out for the other portion[s] of the [project]. That's where I am at.
Vic: I can not give a completion date, . . . but I would like to follow up on it as we progress.
Terri lobbied the trustees and explained further why we wanted to do this, how it would work, and how we would go about it. She stated clearly that we would not expect to go into the building until the morning of the open house. She also mentioned that the sheer details, as well as proper publicity, required a decent lead time.
Jason: I think an open house is going to be in order any way that you would look at it. The only thing is that I don't know anything about the committee. [Terri had read off the names of the members, all of whom have been going to and commenting at trustees meetings regularly, blogger's note.] I see that there are 7 people on the committee. Do you have a mission statement?
Terri: "This is a volunteer group; you have to start somewhere. We decided on this, and I am going to head it up. . . ." Terri mentioned that we already have been assured of help from others willing to volunteer, and planned on asking for some kind of support from the Garden Club, Historical Society, and perhaps the LCA. She said that on the day of the open house the trustees should have nothing more on their minds than to meet and mingle with the people.
Mark: Thought that the team (committee) should just go ahead and initiate the groundwork, providing details as we go along. "I would like to see this become a reality and for the team to go ahead and begin the ground work."
Vic: I will follow up on our insurance--I have already discussed this idea with our insurance compnay and they would like to be invited. [Blogger's note: The idea of an open house is not new; it had come up for the Portage County something-centennial celebration, but the building was nowhere near completion then.]
Mark asked for comments from the other trustees.
Vic: I have no problem starting the foundation on this.
Terri promised regular updates.
Mark: What do you think, Jason?
Jason: I would like to see if you guys [the committee, I think--blogger] do go forward on this the trustees have final say on what occurs.
Terri: That is the point with the report, so that you know where we are every two weeks.
Jason: recommended advertising on the residents' website. "An open house is in order--you guys are doing all of the legwork that the trustees would have to do."
Mark: Also, you have some fluidity and will have more volunteers who will come in.
"So we seem to have a concensus of laying the foundation and things will merge together."
To Terri: "Thank you."
In case you, the reader, didn't see an earlier post about the Open House Committee, here are the members:
Terri Vechery, Sue Skrovan, Roger Hurd, John Vechery, Dave Pollard, Carol Srajer, Carole Pollard. Check the Archive in the right hand column to read that entry.
Friday, March 11, 2011
Public Comment 2/17/11, Part 2
Speakers: Carol Srajer, Winchell Road an Aurora Meadows; Roger Hurd, no need for "tours" of the center school with open house approaching; Dave Pollard, soundness of Center School; Carole Pollard, demands for special privilege by some speakers/residents.
Carol Srajer: Winchell Road gets pretty bad when snow is accompanied by high wind and could use extra attention at such times.
Also: The people in Aurora Meadows, with the sewer project, are living in the middle of an awful mess, and it will be a while before it is all done. They could use our prayers.
Note: Remarks summarized.
Roger Hurd: Considering that we are having an open house at the Center School this spring, I see no useful purpose for any resident to go through the school except for personal reasons--and that would be criticism of what has been done.
Dave Pollard: At the last meeting I brought out that the township is being run like a well run business. You will hardly find a business anywhere that does not have at least one door marked "No Admittance" or "Employees Only."
We are supposed to be adults, and adults learn patience. We are within a few weeks of open house. Dawn Pechman has pictures and Frank Horack has drawings and that should be enough to satisfy everyone who didn't go through when you took people through the building in January [2010], Jason.
At the last meeting we heard that the school was the worst in the district. [The next sentence or two are paraphrases/summaries.] I spent at least a year at the Village school, and there was water running through the locker rooms there, through channels cut into the concrete floor.
Dave asked Vic about whether there was water in the Center School basement.
Vic: No water, and no structural damage.
Dave: It is a solid building--much more solid than the 55-year-old high school building. The water and the drainage [at the Center School] seem to have been handled properly here, while it was not at the other schools.
If the Health Department had been doing its job of making sure that the school was safe for small children, they would have closed it [the Village school building].
John Festa: Asked about the stairs from the basement of the Center School and ADA compliance.
Vic: The stairs will meet the requirements set by the Fire Department.
Carole Pollard, 5359 Allyn Rd.: Basically what I mentioned last time was about the rule of law as opposed to the rule of men. The whole Middle East is going up in flames because they want the rule of law. They are suffering because of the rule of men.
There has been a steady drumbeat meeting after meeting to set aside the rule of law and rule by people's indiividual whims. There have been complaints about the time limit on speaking and complaints about people being required to speak only during public comment. There were comments to the effect that "That's a bad policy" because it didn't please somebody. Somebody also last time overrode the time limit, apparently because he owns three properties and therefore will speak more than the rest of us.
And that is exactly why this country's systems were designed as much as possible to make things equal. One person, one vote. That does not mean that each of us can only go as high as the person next to us. We get the chance to go as high as we can. But we are expected to go by the law and that is the miracle of this country. George Washington declined being appointed king and only ran for two terms as president. And when he stepped down, nobody knew whether we would survive.
What goes on in the Middle East is a good example of what happens when one man or one family rules according to their own whim. And [so]we have Roberts' Rules of Order, a fat little book, and the reason it is so fat is that it covers absolutely everything because it came into being because the first meeting lasted 14 hours, and I want to tell you that there are some meetings here that I thought would go on that long because everybody was doing their best to ignore any kind of order or law.
I have been to meetings when one person monopolized the floor for as much as 45 minutes. So . . . . I think that carping and cavilling about having order in the meetings is, as Carol Srajer said at the last meeting, just plain childish. You don't have a meeting if you don't have poeple. So if you are going to control the meeting you have to control the people. DUH.
End of Public Comment.
The board went into executive session and returned. Matt Deyoung was removed from unpaid administrative leave; his accrued vacation and sick leave were allowed [Note; I think pay for those days was approved]; and his employment with the township was terminated effective February 28, 2011.
Carol Srajer: Winchell Road gets pretty bad when snow is accompanied by high wind and could use extra attention at such times.
Also: The people in Aurora Meadows, with the sewer project, are living in the middle of an awful mess, and it will be a while before it is all done. They could use our prayers.
Note: Remarks summarized.
Roger Hurd: Considering that we are having an open house at the Center School this spring, I see no useful purpose for any resident to go through the school except for personal reasons--and that would be criticism of what has been done.
Dave Pollard: At the last meeting I brought out that the township is being run like a well run business. You will hardly find a business anywhere that does not have at least one door marked "No Admittance" or "Employees Only."
We are supposed to be adults, and adults learn patience. We are within a few weeks of open house. Dawn Pechman has pictures and Frank Horack has drawings and that should be enough to satisfy everyone who didn't go through when you took people through the building in January [2010], Jason.
At the last meeting we heard that the school was the worst in the district. [The next sentence or two are paraphrases/summaries.] I spent at least a year at the Village school, and there was water running through the locker rooms there, through channels cut into the concrete floor.
Dave asked Vic about whether there was water in the Center School basement.
Vic: No water, and no structural damage.
Dave: It is a solid building--much more solid than the 55-year-old high school building. The water and the drainage [at the Center School] seem to have been handled properly here, while it was not at the other schools.
If the Health Department had been doing its job of making sure that the school was safe for small children, they would have closed it [the Village school building].
John Festa: Asked about the stairs from the basement of the Center School and ADA compliance.
Vic: The stairs will meet the requirements set by the Fire Department.
Carole Pollard, 5359 Allyn Rd.: Basically what I mentioned last time was about the rule of law as opposed to the rule of men. The whole Middle East is going up in flames because they want the rule of law. They are suffering because of the rule of men.
There has been a steady drumbeat meeting after meeting to set aside the rule of law and rule by people's indiividual whims. There have been complaints about the time limit on speaking and complaints about people being required to speak only during public comment. There were comments to the effect that "That's a bad policy" because it didn't please somebody. Somebody also last time overrode the time limit, apparently because he owns three properties and therefore will speak more than the rest of us.
And that is exactly why this country's systems were designed as much as possible to make things equal. One person, one vote. That does not mean that each of us can only go as high as the person next to us. We get the chance to go as high as we can. But we are expected to go by the law and that is the miracle of this country. George Washington declined being appointed king and only ran for two terms as president. And when he stepped down, nobody knew whether we would survive.
What goes on in the Middle East is a good example of what happens when one man or one family rules according to their own whim. And [so]we have Roberts' Rules of Order, a fat little book, and the reason it is so fat is that it covers absolutely everything because it came into being because the first meeting lasted 14 hours, and I want to tell you that there are some meetings here that I thought would go on that long because everybody was doing their best to ignore any kind of order or law.
I have been to meetings when one person monopolized the floor for as much as 45 minutes. So . . . . I think that carping and cavilling about having order in the meetings is, as Carol Srajer said at the last meeting, just plain childish. You don't have a meeting if you don't have poeple. So if you are going to control the meeting you have to control the people. DUH.
End of Public Comment.
The board went into executive session and returned. Matt Deyoung was removed from unpaid administrative leave; his accrued vacation and sick leave were allowed [Note; I think pay for those days was approved]; and his employment with the township was terminated effective February 28, 2011.
The Rest of the Story
The "rest of the story" in this case is about the limerick posted below and Dawn's complaint in Public Comment 2/17/11 about being written up for criminal trespass.
Here is the sheriff's report, dated 11/19/10.
"On the above date I was dispatched to 1174 Mantua Center Rd. for a reported unwanted subject. It was reported to me by dispatch that construction workers who were doing work on the old school were having problems with a resident.
"I arrived on scene and met with PR [Note: I don't know what PR means; typo for MR?] Matt Deyoung who told me that while they were doing work on the school a resident by the name of Dawn Pechman kept showing up and taking pictures of the construction work and questioning what they were going [sic]. Matt asked Dawn repeated times to leave, however she did not leave the property, instead she got in Matt's face and began to yell at him. Matt stated that she then left and that's when he called us.
"Matt stated that in the time that he waited for us, she returned once with another resident [Note: we don't know who that was] and took more pictures of the school. Matt asked her again multiple times to leave, and pointed out the no trespassing signs that are all over the school. Dawn then left the property.
"I advised Matt that there if there were [sic] any other problems with to call us, and we would come back out.
"Deputy Skilton and I then went to speak with Dawn. She stated that she was down there taking pictures because she was concerned about what they were doing with the school. Dawn told us that she simply talked to a construction worker about what they were doing to the school. Deputy Skilton and I both then told her that whe needed to stay off the property. Dawn was warned for criminal trespass.
"Both units then cleared the scene without further incident. No further action at this time."
OK, everyone. I HAVE to comment on this.
First, at the December 2, 2010, trustees meeting, Dawn complained that she had driven past the school and didn't appreciate the sheriffs subsequently visiting her about criminal trespass.
Even the terseness of the sheriff's report makes it clear that she did more than just drive by.
Second, I have observed this pattern in Dawn's behavior and complaints over at least 5 years. Here is how it goes:
Dawn's complaint is about what was, in her opinion, done to her--the consequences of some previous act on her part. Her complaint leaves out what she did to call forth those consequences.
I trust that you noticed the discrepancy between Matt's description of the incident and Dawn's in the sheriff's report.
One more note: The report is stamped "Redacted Document County of Portage." I don't know exactly what does not show up on the report that I acquired through a Public Records request.
Here is the sheriff's report, dated 11/19/10.
"On the above date I was dispatched to 1174 Mantua Center Rd. for a reported unwanted subject. It was reported to me by dispatch that construction workers who were doing work on the old school were having problems with a resident.
"I arrived on scene and met with PR [Note: I don't know what PR means; typo for MR?] Matt Deyoung who told me that while they were doing work on the school a resident by the name of Dawn Pechman kept showing up and taking pictures of the construction work and questioning what they were going [sic]. Matt asked Dawn repeated times to leave, however she did not leave the property, instead she got in Matt's face and began to yell at him. Matt stated that she then left and that's when he called us.
"Matt stated that in the time that he waited for us, she returned once with another resident [Note: we don't know who that was] and took more pictures of the school. Matt asked her again multiple times to leave, and pointed out the no trespassing signs that are all over the school. Dawn then left the property.
"I advised Matt that there if there were [sic] any other problems with to call us, and we would come back out.
"Deputy Skilton and I then went to speak with Dawn. She stated that she was down there taking pictures because she was concerned about what they were doing with the school. Dawn told us that she simply talked to a construction worker about what they were doing to the school. Deputy Skilton and I both then told her that whe needed to stay off the property. Dawn was warned for criminal trespass.
"Both units then cleared the scene without further incident. No further action at this time."
OK, everyone. I HAVE to comment on this.
First, at the December 2, 2010, trustees meeting, Dawn complained that she had driven past the school and didn't appreciate the sheriffs subsequently visiting her about criminal trespass.
Even the terseness of the sheriff's report makes it clear that she did more than just drive by.
Second, I have observed this pattern in Dawn's behavior and complaints over at least 5 years. Here is how it goes:
Dawn's complaint is about what was, in her opinion, done to her--the consequences of some previous act on her part. Her complaint leaves out what she did to call forth those consequences.
I trust that you noticed the discrepancy between Matt's description of the incident and Dawn's in the sheriff's report.
One more note: The report is stamped "Redacted Document County of Portage." I don't know exactly what does not show up on the report that I acquired through a Public Records request.
Wednesday, March 9, 2011
Limerick 3/7/11
School is marked "No Trespass" for everyone to see
Mantua Dawn decided, "That cannot mean me!"
Sheriff gave her warning (11/18/10), so she blames trustees
But school is marked NO TRESPASS
For everyone to see.
Copyright, Dave Pollard
Mantua Dawn decided, "That cannot mean me!"
Sheriff gave her warning (11/18/10), so she blames trustees
But school is marked NO TRESPASS
For everyone to see.
Copyright, Dave Pollard
Monday, March 7, 2011
2/17/11: Public Comment, Other, Part 1
Jason Carlton, Vice Chair, conducted the meeting in Mark Hall's absence.
He commented on the Record Courier article about the citizens' website.
Note: More about that in subsequent posts.
Vic Grimm commented on having saved money on some of the work on the school, so that there was money available to buy the steel for the platform needed to support the fire escapes. The materials would run about $3200. That money would cover both fire escapes and is a requirement by the fire department.
The road crew and Vic would do the work. Note: Vic's time would be donated--something he did for the township even before he was a trustee. Vic showed Jason the specifications.
Note: The Township had the parking area outside the school building paved for approximately $18,000 LESS than the architecht's estimate.
The materials for the fire escapes are estimated to cost $3200, and that money would come from $4,000 unspent from the original funding. This was not a request for "new" money.
Jason: This is kind of a tough decision for me.
There was a bit more discussion and indecision, and then Jason said that if Vic made the motion, he, Jason, would second it. Done.
Public Comment
Public comment is supposed to be limited to 5 minutes per speaker. Since the full flavor of a speaker's remarks may be impossible to capture in a condensation or summary, some remarks are as close to verbatim as possible.
Speakers in Part 1: Alan Brugmann, Dennis Johns, Dawn Pechman.
Alan (sp?) Brugmann asked about whether a truck had been sold.
Answer (Vic): It is still for sale. Someone expressed an interest, but we have not heard back.
Dennis Johns: Last meeting there was a question to Vic about whether he had read the insurance policy. Jason, have you read it? Answer: No.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 S.R. 82
You're having an executive session tonight on personnel, right?
Jason: That's correct.
Dawn: OK, and yuou know the township's going to have to be hiring somebody and has, is this going to be discussed after the executive session or is it going to be discussed at the next meeting?
Jason: Well, I can't answer what's going to be discussed in the executive session, obviously, but it is for personnel. The township--we will have to hire someone, in my opinion. Maybe Vic can comment on that in a minute, but as far as hiring someone, we do have a resolution, 2000-237. So if there are any vacancies, in my opinion, there may be a vacancy coming up depending on what comes out of executive session, obviously. And we would have to advertise.
Dawn: I'm not asking, you know, about the executive session, it's confidential.
Based on the 1997 employee manual and job descriptions that seem a bit dated, there's no done on them, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to update the job descriptions before actually advertising and that's the one thing I want to make sure that I get my 2 cents in on. I think it's going to be far better to advertise for all the positions as opposed to just, you know, move people up because I think from the townshiop employee standpoing, it's a little bit lax as far as paperwork goes and I think it would be very important to get that caught up to speed.
So you're not hiring, I guess that's what I want to make sure is if you're going to hire somebody that you advertise. And also, I would like to ask to that somebody from Mantua Township be considered. And I think that you as trustees, you can make those kind of things,. and you can discuss those in open session from that standpoint.
The insurance policy, I want to bring this up because general liability does cover volunteers. And it says specifically in the policy. And Marie, that's marked on the policy that Marie has right now too. And that goes back to people who are interested in seeing the inside of the Center School. I have digital photographs of the inside of the school, but there are some people who want to see it. Anybody who's going in there could be considered a volunteer. And I think that would be one way. It needs to be addressed, in allowing people to see the inside of that school.
Vic, you were talking about the stairs, could you elaborate on the stairs. It's my understanding those stairs are only required if you've got preschool or under age 5 kids.
Reply, Vic: That was a requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: For under 5.
Vic: That was the requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: Based on a daycare center, which is kids under . . . ..
Vic: No, based on whether we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: I don't remember seeing it, I do remember seeing if it was going to be a daycare, you had to have steps going up.
Vic: It was based on if we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: Do you have that in writing?
Vic: Probably somewhere.
Dawn: Could you get that please, before the stairs are purchased because I don't remember seeing that in anything I've looked at, and I do think from the school standpoint the basement is going to be finished and also the gymnasium is going to be finished.
And years ago, you were talking about having hearings before anything could happen there; Jason's working on a survey. What is the actual steps that have to occur before you can start using that building? And I never understood what the fire department's about anyway.
Vic: The purpose is to finish what the permit is for. That is how we get into the building.
Dawn: What do you mean?
Vic: What the permits are for right now. We have to finish to get into the building.
Dawn: You do have the option to change that education right now, you do have that option.
Vic: You would have to change everything.
Dawn: No you would not, you would just have to change the option for the basement. And that's the one thing you seem reluctant to consider.
Vic: That is not how it was explained to me.
Dawn: Well, it was explained to me that you have. . . .
Vic: Who explained that to you?
Dawn: Randy, Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: All right, I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: And I think that it would be a good idea to follow up on it because if that basement can be finished at a lesser cost, by putting a higher degree of education, an older group of education people in there, I think that would be a savings to the township and needs to be considered.
Vic: As far as I know at this point, Dawn, is we have the permit for that and we don't want to change it; we want to stay with what the permit is.
Dawn: You don't want to change it, and I'm asking . . . .
Vic: I said "We." I said "We."
Dawn: "We" is who? The trustees?
Vic: The Board of Trustees.
Dawn: I am asking the Board of Trustees to consier changing the educatrion classification.
Vic: This is what you asked last time and we said we would look into it.
Dawn: Well, did you look into it, no.
Vic: No, you asked Mark.
Dawn: Well, I've actually, this started a couple months ago. The education change is going to allow other
people to be in there, it will not cost as much to have the building finished and if I remember correctly, we do not need the exterior stairs going up on the inside because that was a fire department inspection, that was prior to the purchase of the building, it was based on daycare.
Vic: No, actually that was dated 2006.
Blogger's Note: The school was purchased in 2004 and was not worked on right away because
of several bureaucratic and EPA restrictions and requirements.
Dawn: So you have a copy of it, then?
Vic: Yeah, and you have a copy of it, I believe.. I gave it to you, you asked for a copy of that and it was a minimum requiremenmt of the fire department that was attached to the job copy prints.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints.
Vic: No, but you asked for that letter and I gave it to you.
Dawn: I'm asking you again then, because I don't remember seeing that letter.
Vic. From the fire department. That's attached to the job copy print.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints or whatever you're talking about.
Vic. That's the letter you've requested before and I've given it to you, but I'll get it for you again.
Dawn: I'm requesting it again because I don't recall having that but also you said you were going to talk with Bob Wrentmore about changing the classification for education, right?
Vic: What?
Dawn: You're going to call Randy and Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: OK, and what is the process going to be for people who want to use the gym? The daycare because you don't.have a day care. What's the process going to be for people who are interested in using that building?
Vic: The gym area?
Dawn: Both.
Vic: That's the assembly area.
Dawn: Right, is this going to require a hearing, too?
Vic: For the gym area, I don't believe it does.
Dawn: Will it require a hearing for the basement?
Vic: I think whoever wants to rent it would require a hearing.
Dawn: You think? I disagree with you, so could you get that established, too.
Vic: I'll have to look into the contract, Dawn.
Dawn: The contract between the township and . . . the leasing agent?
V: Yes.
D: What about people getting inside that school to see it now?
V: My position is exactly what the insurance company told me.
D: Well, your position kind of goes in direct violation, or opposition of what your policy says.
V: Volunteers do not fall under that, what they'r e talking about, they're not talking under construction site.
D: Who are "they"?
V: The insurance company. It's a different type of thing for volunteers. Say that we have the Spring Cleanup, that's considered a community project. And even then, if you get that waiver, it doesn't mean you're [the sanctioning entity] not going to get sued, or somebody's not going to file a lawsuit against you.
D: And that's where a release would come in.
V: No, I'm talking about the release.
Blogger's Note: "Release" and "waiver" may be used interchangeably. Most of you probably know that.
D: Put it in, you know, if you don't have it, John [Festa] asked for it in writing last week at the last meeting; do you have it?
V: No, I don't have it.
D: Why not?
V: I don't have it.
D: That needs to be happening in writing because there is an insurance policy, it looks like people could go in there [the school]. You have township people who want to volunteer to get that building up and running.
V: We have already discussed this I don't know how many times, Dawn.
D: Well, and that's what needs to change at this point, we have to have a change and how it's going to happen because . . . .
V: [to Jason]: Are we going to follow a time limit or not? (Dawn's remarks had now lasted 9 minutes.)
D: I'm almost finished here and the whole thing is, is, this has been going on for 6 years at this point and it needs to change and people want to see in the building. I can give Brent the digital photos I took of the inside but I think that it would be a good idea for people to see it on their own.
V: We are going to have an open house.
D: When?
V: In the spring here, when the annex is open.
D: How are people going to sign up to get in the annex, it just seems like there is a lack of preparation again to get the whole thing going.
Jason: All right, Dawn, so, I mean, you've asked a ton of questions.
D: I know.
J: So, you know, we'd like to let everybody else have a chance to talk.
D: Fine.
J: So, we've got a couple items, Vic's going to get some paperwork for you.
D: And when can I get an answer? That's my last question.
J: I, what was your final question? I don't even know, you had a lot of questions.
D: Yeah, well, I, and it's a question I've been repeating. The change of education classification.
J: So, let me address that right now. So, from my understanding and I don't know every single detail because I don't work with the Building Deparment, but that would be a change of occupancy and that is an absolute mess to go through a change of occupancy.
That is why I would like to keep education on there, expand the umbrella of education. That is what I'm trying to work with this survey on.
D: And I understand that, but that's not what the Building Department told me.
J: OK, and then so either myself or Vic will follow up woth the Building Dept., we'll get that clarified and we will convey that at the next meeting or so, the specifics on that.
D: OK, OK.
J: Is that everything?
D: Sure, and I think it would be a good idea to figure out how we could get some people going in there too.
J: OK.
V: We will, at the open house.
D: Prior to that, Vic.
V: It's a construction site, Dawn.
D: And the "No Trespassing" signs up there, how far off does that extend?
V: The property of the school.
D: So public property, you cannot . . . you know, I was, I was, a report was filed agains me for criminal trespassing. But not the other persons on the property that day.
V: Dawn, there's been more than you that's been called for that over there.
D: Who was called?
V: There has been a couple other people that the sheriffs came out and talked to.
D: I would like to know who.
V: The reports are at the Sheriff's Department.
D: Under Mantua Township?
V: Yes.
D: And, did you file them?
V: No, I didn't file them.
D: And you had Matt [DeYoung] file all of them?
V: Matt was on the grounds all of the time, yes.
D: OK, thank you.
Note: Dawn's remarks took 11-1/2 minutes.
He commented on the Record Courier article about the citizens' website.
Note: More about that in subsequent posts.
Vic Grimm commented on having saved money on some of the work on the school, so that there was money available to buy the steel for the platform needed to support the fire escapes. The materials would run about $3200. That money would cover both fire escapes and is a requirement by the fire department.
The road crew and Vic would do the work. Note: Vic's time would be donated--something he did for the township even before he was a trustee. Vic showed Jason the specifications.
Note: The Township had the parking area outside the school building paved for approximately $18,000 LESS than the architecht's estimate.
The materials for the fire escapes are estimated to cost $3200, and that money would come from $4,000 unspent from the original funding. This was not a request for "new" money.
Jason: This is kind of a tough decision for me.
There was a bit more discussion and indecision, and then Jason said that if Vic made the motion, he, Jason, would second it. Done.
Public Comment
Public comment is supposed to be limited to 5 minutes per speaker. Since the full flavor of a speaker's remarks may be impossible to capture in a condensation or summary, some remarks are as close to verbatim as possible.
Speakers in Part 1: Alan Brugmann, Dennis Johns, Dawn Pechman.
Alan (sp?) Brugmann asked about whether a truck had been sold.
Answer (Vic): It is still for sale. Someone expressed an interest, but we have not heard back.
Dennis Johns: Last meeting there was a question to Vic about whether he had read the insurance policy. Jason, have you read it? Answer: No.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 S.R. 82
You're having an executive session tonight on personnel, right?
Jason: That's correct.
Dawn: OK, and yuou know the township's going to have to be hiring somebody and has, is this going to be discussed after the executive session or is it going to be discussed at the next meeting?
Jason: Well, I can't answer what's going to be discussed in the executive session, obviously, but it is for personnel. The township--we will have to hire someone, in my opinion. Maybe Vic can comment on that in a minute, but as far as hiring someone, we do have a resolution, 2000-237. So if there are any vacancies, in my opinion, there may be a vacancy coming up depending on what comes out of executive session, obviously. And we would have to advertise.
Dawn: I'm not asking, you know, about the executive session, it's confidential.
Based on the 1997 employee manual and job descriptions that seem a bit dated, there's no done on them, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to update the job descriptions before actually advertising and that's the one thing I want to make sure that I get my 2 cents in on. I think it's going to be far better to advertise for all the positions as opposed to just, you know, move people up because I think from the townshiop employee standpoing, it's a little bit lax as far as paperwork goes and I think it would be very important to get that caught up to speed.
So you're not hiring, I guess that's what I want to make sure is if you're going to hire somebody that you advertise. And also, I would like to ask to that somebody from Mantua Township be considered. And I think that you as trustees, you can make those kind of things,. and you can discuss those in open session from that standpoint.
The insurance policy, I want to bring this up because general liability does cover volunteers. And it says specifically in the policy. And Marie, that's marked on the policy that Marie has right now too. And that goes back to people who are interested in seeing the inside of the Center School. I have digital photographs of the inside of the school, but there are some people who want to see it. Anybody who's going in there could be considered a volunteer. And I think that would be one way. It needs to be addressed, in allowing people to see the inside of that school.
Vic, you were talking about the stairs, could you elaborate on the stairs. It's my understanding those stairs are only required if you've got preschool or under age 5 kids.
Reply, Vic: That was a requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: For under 5.
Vic: That was the requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: Based on a daycare center, which is kids under . . . ..
Vic: No, based on whether we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: I don't remember seeing it, I do remember seeing if it was going to be a daycare, you had to have steps going up.
Vic: It was based on if we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: Do you have that in writing?
Vic: Probably somewhere.
Dawn: Could you get that please, before the stairs are purchased because I don't remember seeing that in anything I've looked at, and I do think from the school standpoint the basement is going to be finished and also the gymnasium is going to be finished.
And years ago, you were talking about having hearings before anything could happen there; Jason's working on a survey. What is the actual steps that have to occur before you can start using that building? And I never understood what the fire department's about anyway.
Vic: The purpose is to finish what the permit is for. That is how we get into the building.
Dawn: What do you mean?
Vic: What the permits are for right now. We have to finish to get into the building.
Dawn: You do have the option to change that education right now, you do have that option.
Vic: You would have to change everything.
Dawn: No you would not, you would just have to change the option for the basement. And that's the one thing you seem reluctant to consider.
Vic: That is not how it was explained to me.
Dawn: Well, it was explained to me that you have. . . .
Vic: Who explained that to you?
Dawn: Randy, Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: All right, I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: And I think that it would be a good idea to follow up on it because if that basement can be finished at a lesser cost, by putting a higher degree of education, an older group of education people in there, I think that would be a savings to the township and needs to be considered.
Vic: As far as I know at this point, Dawn, is we have the permit for that and we don't want to change it; we want to stay with what the permit is.
Dawn: You don't want to change it, and I'm asking . . . .
Vic: I said "We." I said "We."
Dawn: "We" is who? The trustees?
Vic: The Board of Trustees.
Dawn: I am asking the Board of Trustees to consier changing the educatrion classification.
Vic: This is what you asked last time and we said we would look into it.
Dawn: Well, did you look into it, no.
Vic: No, you asked Mark.
Dawn: Well, I've actually, this started a couple months ago. The education change is going to allow other
people to be in there, it will not cost as much to have the building finished and if I remember correctly, we do not need the exterior stairs going up on the inside because that was a fire department inspection, that was prior to the purchase of the building, it was based on daycare.
Vic: No, actually that was dated 2006.
Blogger's Note: The school was purchased in 2004 and was not worked on right away because
of several bureaucratic and EPA restrictions and requirements.
Dawn: So you have a copy of it, then?
Vic: Yeah, and you have a copy of it, I believe.. I gave it to you, you asked for a copy of that and it was a minimum requiremenmt of the fire department that was attached to the job copy prints.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints.
Vic: No, but you asked for that letter and I gave it to you.
Dawn: I'm asking you again then, because I don't remember seeing that letter.
Vic. From the fire department. That's attached to the job copy print.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints or whatever you're talking about.
Vic. That's the letter you've requested before and I've given it to you, but I'll get it for you again.
Dawn: I'm requesting it again because I don't recall having that but also you said you were going to talk with Bob Wrentmore about changing the classification for education, right?
Vic: What?
Dawn: You're going to call Randy and Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: OK, and what is the process going to be for people who want to use the gym? The daycare because you don't.have a day care. What's the process going to be for people who are interested in using that building?
Vic: The gym area?
Dawn: Both.
Vic: That's the assembly area.
Dawn: Right, is this going to require a hearing, too?
Vic: For the gym area, I don't believe it does.
Dawn: Will it require a hearing for the basement?
Vic: I think whoever wants to rent it would require a hearing.
Dawn: You think? I disagree with you, so could you get that established, too.
Vic: I'll have to look into the contract, Dawn.
Dawn: The contract between the township and . . . the leasing agent?
V: Yes.
D: What about people getting inside that school to see it now?
V: My position is exactly what the insurance company told me.
D: Well, your position kind of goes in direct violation, or opposition of what your policy says.
V: Volunteers do not fall under that, what they'r e talking about, they're not talking under construction site.
D: Who are "they"?
V: The insurance company. It's a different type of thing for volunteers. Say that we have the Spring Cleanup, that's considered a community project. And even then, if you get that waiver, it doesn't mean you're [the sanctioning entity] not going to get sued, or somebody's not going to file a lawsuit against you.
D: And that's where a release would come in.
V: No, I'm talking about the release.
Blogger's Note: "Release" and "waiver" may be used interchangeably. Most of you probably know that.
D: Put it in, you know, if you don't have it, John [Festa] asked for it in writing last week at the last meeting; do you have it?
V: No, I don't have it.
D: Why not?
V: I don't have it.
D: That needs to be happening in writing because there is an insurance policy, it looks like people could go in there [the school]. You have township people who want to volunteer to get that building up and running.
V: We have already discussed this I don't know how many times, Dawn.
D: Well, and that's what needs to change at this point, we have to have a change and how it's going to happen because . . . .
V: [to Jason]: Are we going to follow a time limit or not? (Dawn's remarks had now lasted 9 minutes.)
D: I'm almost finished here and the whole thing is, is, this has been going on for 6 years at this point and it needs to change and people want to see in the building. I can give Brent the digital photos I took of the inside but I think that it would be a good idea for people to see it on their own.
V: We are going to have an open house.
D: When?
V: In the spring here, when the annex is open.
D: How are people going to sign up to get in the annex, it just seems like there is a lack of preparation again to get the whole thing going.
Jason: All right, Dawn, so, I mean, you've asked a ton of questions.
D: I know.
J: So, you know, we'd like to let everybody else have a chance to talk.
D: Fine.
J: So, we've got a couple items, Vic's going to get some paperwork for you.
D: And when can I get an answer? That's my last question.
J: I, what was your final question? I don't even know, you had a lot of questions.
D: Yeah, well, I, and it's a question I've been repeating. The change of education classification.
J: So, let me address that right now. So, from my understanding and I don't know every single detail because I don't work with the Building Deparment, but that would be a change of occupancy and that is an absolute mess to go through a change of occupancy.
That is why I would like to keep education on there, expand the umbrella of education. That is what I'm trying to work with this survey on.
D: And I understand that, but that's not what the Building Department told me.
J: OK, and then so either myself or Vic will follow up woth the Building Dept., we'll get that clarified and we will convey that at the next meeting or so, the specifics on that.
D: OK, OK.
J: Is that everything?
D: Sure, and I think it would be a good idea to figure out how we could get some people going in there too.
J: OK.
V: We will, at the open house.
D: Prior to that, Vic.
V: It's a construction site, Dawn.
D: And the "No Trespassing" signs up there, how far off does that extend?
V: The property of the school.
D: So public property, you cannot . . . you know, I was, I was, a report was filed agains me for criminal trespassing. But not the other persons on the property that day.
V: Dawn, there's been more than you that's been called for that over there.
D: Who was called?
V: There has been a couple other people that the sheriffs came out and talked to.
D: I would like to know who.
V: The reports are at the Sheriff's Department.
D: Under Mantua Township?
V: Yes.
D: And, did you file them?
V: No, I didn't file them.
D: And you had Matt [DeYoung] file all of them?
V: Matt was on the grounds all of the time, yes.
D: OK, thank you.
Note: Dawn's remarks took 11-1/2 minutes.
Sunday, March 6, 2011
Limerick 2/27/11
The "Group of Eight" constantly prate
On cost of Center School to date.
This seems the point of all their fuss:
"Let taxpayers pay for all updates,
Then sell it--to one of us"!
On cost of Center School to date.
This seems the point of all their fuss:
"Let taxpayers pay for all updates,
Then sell it--to one of us"!
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Center School Open House Committee
With work on the first phase of the renovation of the Mantua Center School approaching completion, a group of township residents formed a committee to organize an open house on behalf of the trustees to celebrate and acknowlege the work that has been done since 2006.
At the March 3 meeting of the Mantua Township Trustees, committee head Terri Vechery presented the proposal and asked the trustees to approve the committee, which they did. Committee members, listed in no particular order, are Terri Vechery, Roger Hurd, Dave Pollard, Sue Skrovan, John Vechery, Carol Srajer, and Carole Pollard.
All of us on the committee are excited about the prospect of celebrating getting back our school, and we have supported the trustees in their efforts to do this right from the start. We have also always supported the trustees on the whole, even though we may have differed on details at times.
Other residents of like mind have already said that they are on board as helpers on the appointed day, which looks as if it will be the latter part of May or possibly early June. TBA, as the saying goes.
Get out your favorite recipe--the committee has proposed a community potluck. After all, what would a celebration be without a meal and a chance to talk to each other?
At the March 3 meeting of the Mantua Township Trustees, committee head Terri Vechery presented the proposal and asked the trustees to approve the committee, which they did. Committee members, listed in no particular order, are Terri Vechery, Roger Hurd, Dave Pollard, Sue Skrovan, John Vechery, Carol Srajer, and Carole Pollard.
All of us on the committee are excited about the prospect of celebrating getting back our school, and we have supported the trustees in their efforts to do this right from the start. We have also always supported the trustees on the whole, even though we may have differed on details at times.
Other residents of like mind have already said that they are on board as helpers on the appointed day, which looks as if it will be the latter part of May or possibly early June. TBA, as the saying goes.
Get out your favorite recipe--the committee has proposed a community potluck. After all, what would a celebration be without a meal and a chance to talk to each other?
Friday, March 4, 2011
Public Comment 2/3/11, Part 3
Roger Hurd, 11251 Center Road
I would like to respond to some comments that were made at the last meeting about Mark Hall and his position as a trustee.
We went over this once before, but I'm going to go over it again because apparently not everyone heard it or [may not have] understood it.
About 15 months before the last trustees' election which was a year ago this past November, Steve Oros took out a nominating petition and on that petition were four names who were to serve as a committee to pick his successor if he was unable to complete his term. I didn't realize at the time that I was on that committee. And the committee consisted of Vic Grimm, Sue Skrovan, Phil Derthick, and myself.
When the committee was called to meet, we did meet and we mutually agreed that the first thing we needed to do was talk to the prosecutor's office to find the scope of what we were supposed to do. Get a legal opinion, in other words.
According to the ORC, the prosecutor gave us the parameters that we had to operate within. We had other questions for the prosecutor, and he said he could not answer them, that we had to get outside legal counsel, which we did, pro bono. We got that information from an attorney who is well versed in township law, village law, county law, etc.
We met again to discuss what we were going to do and we decided that we were going to ask Mark to fill that unexpired term. The reason is we had one new trustee coming on; we felt that the experience and continuity would be [desirable]. Mark had the experience that we were looking for. He also had more votes than anybody else in the township who was not a trustee.
Another thing I wanted to point out was that the statement was made that there were many people that voted against Mark. Any ballot that I have ever seen, you have issues where you vote for or against, or you have candidates where you vote for this person or for that person. There is no box to vote against anyone. So that was kind of a fuzzy statement.
But if you carry that fuzzy logic a little farther, Jason, more people voted against you than voted for you. That's not true; they voted for you, they voted for Vic, and they voted for Mark, not against anyone.
Also it was said that 5 of Mark's friends voted him in and I want to make one thing clear. Mark did not come to us: we went to Mark. Mark never approached us. We went to Mark. I suppose--I talked to Phil Derthick last night--I suppose you could say I am a friend of Mark's and Phil Derthick said he is a friend of Mark's. We don't socialize.
The only times I have spoken to Mark are in this building and in the parking lot. I witnessed his swearing in and saw him at Steve Oros's funeral and I may have talked to him two times on the phone, once for committee work and possibly one other time--maybe once when you [Mark] asked me to witness your swearing in. So I guess I am Mark's friend.
We don't socialize; we don't meet at the Upper Deck; we don't meet at anybody's shop; we don't meet anywhere else; we don't go out for a beer. We don't do any of those things, so we are not social friends. We are just friends, and I have a lot of friends. Mark just happens to be one of them.
But that was not why we chose Mark, and he did not choose the committee that chose him--Steve Oros did. I just want to make that very clear. Thank you.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road
John spent a lot of time questioning Vic about the insurance policy and who the agent is. He claimed to have a copy of the policy and was asking questions based on that. The thrust of the questions was to create the impression that Vic was not well versed on the policy. Vic said that he would comment more fully after the meeting when he could take a look at what John Festa had. That did not happen; Festa left before the meeting was adjuourned.
John Festa also frequently mentioned (and mentions) that "We" own the building [Center School] and that "We" should be able to go through it. Vic told him that the building is titled to Mantua Township, the Board of Trustees. He pointed out that it was the trustees who had purchased the building, and not just with Mantua Township residents' tax dollars.
Carol Srajer, 4478 Winchell Road
I am having a real hard time sitting here. It really saddens me that we have spent so much time going over the same thing meeting after meeting after meeting. We never seem to get the point across.
The building is being done. It will house our offices. We will have public use. We are not talking about 2020; we are talking about soon. Has every decision that you guys made been the perfect one? Probably not. Are there other things that maybe could have been done? Maybe so. But you three genelemen have put in an awful lot of time and an awful lot of effort above and beyond anything that we see here.
As far as seeing that building--there was an open house [some time ago] so everyone had a chance to go through it that wanted to. As far as anyone getting in there now other than idle curosity or looking for some reason to cause a problem, there is no reason for anyone getting in there. I would like to see what has been going on. I am curious just like everybody else, but now is not the time.
You have been duly elected to take care of the township's business and it is about damn time that people let you do it.
Carole Pollard: As the English say--hear, hear. Note: the people behind me weren't sure what I said; it was not loud.
Frank Horack: would you repeat that, please. Pollard remained silent. Horack: There was a comment here--I would like to hear it.
Pollard: I said, "As the English say, hear, hear." Note: Both Mr. Horack and I were out of order; his demands interrupted the meeting.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82:
I used to work at Lakeside Sand and Gravel. I guarantee you you are not going to go through that plant while they are operating. Guarantee. Lucky Sand or any other place while they are operating. You will not be able to go into the working area of Stamm Contracting down there in the Village. This is just childish, period. Childish. It has been announced and this is just kicking your heels on the floor saying, "I want to go through it, I want to go through it." That's all it seems like to me.
You guys have been working on that, yes, for 4 years or more now. It seems that even someone in this room [Frank Horack--Blogger's note] acknowledged that you were trading time for money, which is what everybody does who buys a house.
Dave to Jason: Did you pay cash for your house? Answer: No, sir.
Dave: You got a mortgage, right? You're trading time for money. If I were to ask you 10 years from now what you paid for your house, I guarantee you that you would give me the purchase/asking price but not what you paid for it morgage and all, right?
Jason: Yes.
Dave: That is what everybody does, the same as the example Mark gave with buying a truck. You buy a truck and you finance it for 5 years and it costs you $45,000. [But people say they paid $25,000 for that truck.] That extra $20,000 wasn't the cost of the truck--it was the cost of the money. We've got the same situation here, paying off the lease payment.
Mark, Vic--Jason, you're newer at this-- but in the time frame that you have worked on that building, have any roads gone unpaved in order to pay for anything in that building?
Vic--No. We have continued to pay for the roads.
Dave: Have you kept up with the ditches?
V: Yes, we have, with every Issue 2 project we have done ditching. Prior to that, we have done our own additional ditching.
Dave: Have you maintained equipment properly or have you upgraded equipment?
Vic, Mark: Yes. I believe we have.
Dave: You are not still running everything that you had when you came into office, or even when you came in, Jason. I know we bought a backhoe since you came in. So you have upgraded equipment.
V: Yes, we have upgraded.
Dave: Without putting a bond issue on the ballot for any of this.
V: The only issue we have is with the roads.
D: Right--but that was an extra because of the school.
V: No, that has been on for many years.
Dave--Marie, is it true that we have a bigger cash balance now than when you bought the school?
Answer: Yes.
Dave: You have been criticized and accused of not running the township like a business. Now you are being criticized because you have been running it like a well run business and Janet Esposito who I believe is better credentialed than anyone else in this room to know, says that this is one of the best run townships in Portage County. You are running it like a well run business.
Any business man who can take on another building and renovate while keeping up with payroll and everything else would brag about it and would be considered to be doing a good job. Any home owner who bought a second home and kept up with the first and second morgage and renovated the second one and bought new vehicles and put a kid through school would be bragging either actively by saying, "Look what I'm doing," or passively by saying, "It's hard, but I'm keeping up with all that stuff-- I bet you're not able to do that."
You're running it like a well run business and you're being criticized for it. Don't worry about it. Consider the sources and keep on. As far as meeting with the public, remember that the Group of 8 purported to represent the tonwship last year. You met with them, you listened to them, and since then most of what you have heard from them is "slow down, turn around, change your plans. Re-do the whole thing."
You're doing a good job. When we get in there, everybody should be proud of it, and doing the township offices last [they will be on an upper floor] was probably a good thing. Besides--you don't renovate a building from the top down unless you have to start with the roof, which you did not have to do with that building. You renovate a building from the ground up, which is what you are doing. As far as I can see, it looks like you are doing a good job--consider the sources of the criticism. Thank you.
That ended public comment. Executive session followed regarding compensation and discipline. At the end of that session, the trustees returned, opened bids for electrical and plumbing work in the school, and awarded the contracts..
I would like to respond to some comments that were made at the last meeting about Mark Hall and his position as a trustee.
We went over this once before, but I'm going to go over it again because apparently not everyone heard it or [may not have] understood it.
About 15 months before the last trustees' election which was a year ago this past November, Steve Oros took out a nominating petition and on that petition were four names who were to serve as a committee to pick his successor if he was unable to complete his term. I didn't realize at the time that I was on that committee. And the committee consisted of Vic Grimm, Sue Skrovan, Phil Derthick, and myself.
When the committee was called to meet, we did meet and we mutually agreed that the first thing we needed to do was talk to the prosecutor's office to find the scope of what we were supposed to do. Get a legal opinion, in other words.
According to the ORC, the prosecutor gave us the parameters that we had to operate within. We had other questions for the prosecutor, and he said he could not answer them, that we had to get outside legal counsel, which we did, pro bono. We got that information from an attorney who is well versed in township law, village law, county law, etc.
We met again to discuss what we were going to do and we decided that we were going to ask Mark to fill that unexpired term. The reason is we had one new trustee coming on; we felt that the experience and continuity would be [desirable]. Mark had the experience that we were looking for. He also had more votes than anybody else in the township who was not a trustee.
Another thing I wanted to point out was that the statement was made that there were many people that voted against Mark. Any ballot that I have ever seen, you have issues where you vote for or against, or you have candidates where you vote for this person or for that person. There is no box to vote against anyone. So that was kind of a fuzzy statement.
But if you carry that fuzzy logic a little farther, Jason, more people voted against you than voted for you. That's not true; they voted for you, they voted for Vic, and they voted for Mark, not against anyone.
Also it was said that 5 of Mark's friends voted him in and I want to make one thing clear. Mark did not come to us: we went to Mark. Mark never approached us. We went to Mark. I suppose--I talked to Phil Derthick last night--I suppose you could say I am a friend of Mark's and Phil Derthick said he is a friend of Mark's. We don't socialize.
The only times I have spoken to Mark are in this building and in the parking lot. I witnessed his swearing in and saw him at Steve Oros's funeral and I may have talked to him two times on the phone, once for committee work and possibly one other time--maybe once when you [Mark] asked me to witness your swearing in. So I guess I am Mark's friend.
We don't socialize; we don't meet at the Upper Deck; we don't meet at anybody's shop; we don't meet anywhere else; we don't go out for a beer. We don't do any of those things, so we are not social friends. We are just friends, and I have a lot of friends. Mark just happens to be one of them.
But that was not why we chose Mark, and he did not choose the committee that chose him--Steve Oros did. I just want to make that very clear. Thank you.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road
John spent a lot of time questioning Vic about the insurance policy and who the agent is. He claimed to have a copy of the policy and was asking questions based on that. The thrust of the questions was to create the impression that Vic was not well versed on the policy. Vic said that he would comment more fully after the meeting when he could take a look at what John Festa had. That did not happen; Festa left before the meeting was adjuourned.
John Festa also frequently mentioned (and mentions) that "We" own the building [Center School] and that "We" should be able to go through it. Vic told him that the building is titled to Mantua Township, the Board of Trustees. He pointed out that it was the trustees who had purchased the building, and not just with Mantua Township residents' tax dollars.
Carol Srajer, 4478 Winchell Road
I am having a real hard time sitting here. It really saddens me that we have spent so much time going over the same thing meeting after meeting after meeting. We never seem to get the point across.
The building is being done. It will house our offices. We will have public use. We are not talking about 2020; we are talking about soon. Has every decision that you guys made been the perfect one? Probably not. Are there other things that maybe could have been done? Maybe so. But you three genelemen have put in an awful lot of time and an awful lot of effort above and beyond anything that we see here.
As far as seeing that building--there was an open house [some time ago] so everyone had a chance to go through it that wanted to. As far as anyone getting in there now other than idle curosity or looking for some reason to cause a problem, there is no reason for anyone getting in there. I would like to see what has been going on. I am curious just like everybody else, but now is not the time.
You have been duly elected to take care of the township's business and it is about damn time that people let you do it.
Carole Pollard: As the English say--hear, hear. Note: the people behind me weren't sure what I said; it was not loud.
Frank Horack: would you repeat that, please. Pollard remained silent. Horack: There was a comment here--I would like to hear it.
Pollard: I said, "As the English say, hear, hear." Note: Both Mr. Horack and I were out of order; his demands interrupted the meeting.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82:
I used to work at Lakeside Sand and Gravel. I guarantee you you are not going to go through that plant while they are operating. Guarantee. Lucky Sand or any other place while they are operating. You will not be able to go into the working area of Stamm Contracting down there in the Village. This is just childish, period. Childish. It has been announced and this is just kicking your heels on the floor saying, "I want to go through it, I want to go through it." That's all it seems like to me.
You guys have been working on that, yes, for 4 years or more now. It seems that even someone in this room [Frank Horack--Blogger's note] acknowledged that you were trading time for money, which is what everybody does who buys a house.
Dave to Jason: Did you pay cash for your house? Answer: No, sir.
Dave: You got a mortgage, right? You're trading time for money. If I were to ask you 10 years from now what you paid for your house, I guarantee you that you would give me the purchase/asking price but not what you paid for it morgage and all, right?
Jason: Yes.
Dave: That is what everybody does, the same as the example Mark gave with buying a truck. You buy a truck and you finance it for 5 years and it costs you $45,000. [But people say they paid $25,000 for that truck.] That extra $20,000 wasn't the cost of the truck--it was the cost of the money. We've got the same situation here, paying off the lease payment.
Mark, Vic--Jason, you're newer at this-- but in the time frame that you have worked on that building, have any roads gone unpaved in order to pay for anything in that building?
Vic--No. We have continued to pay for the roads.
Dave: Have you kept up with the ditches?
V: Yes, we have, with every Issue 2 project we have done ditching. Prior to that, we have done our own additional ditching.
Dave: Have you maintained equipment properly or have you upgraded equipment?
Vic, Mark: Yes. I believe we have.
Dave: You are not still running everything that you had when you came into office, or even when you came in, Jason. I know we bought a backhoe since you came in. So you have upgraded equipment.
V: Yes, we have upgraded.
Dave: Without putting a bond issue on the ballot for any of this.
V: The only issue we have is with the roads.
D: Right--but that was an extra because of the school.
V: No, that has been on for many years.
Dave--Marie, is it true that we have a bigger cash balance now than when you bought the school?
Answer: Yes.
Dave: You have been criticized and accused of not running the township like a business. Now you are being criticized because you have been running it like a well run business and Janet Esposito who I believe is better credentialed than anyone else in this room to know, says that this is one of the best run townships in Portage County. You are running it like a well run business.
Any business man who can take on another building and renovate while keeping up with payroll and everything else would brag about it and would be considered to be doing a good job. Any home owner who bought a second home and kept up with the first and second morgage and renovated the second one and bought new vehicles and put a kid through school would be bragging either actively by saying, "Look what I'm doing," or passively by saying, "It's hard, but I'm keeping up with all that stuff-- I bet you're not able to do that."
You're running it like a well run business and you're being criticized for it. Don't worry about it. Consider the sources and keep on. As far as meeting with the public, remember that the Group of 8 purported to represent the tonwship last year. You met with them, you listened to them, and since then most of what you have heard from them is "slow down, turn around, change your plans. Re-do the whole thing."
You're doing a good job. When we get in there, everybody should be proud of it, and doing the township offices last [they will be on an upper floor] was probably a good thing. Besides--you don't renovate a building from the top down unless you have to start with the roof, which you did not have to do with that building. You renovate a building from the ground up, which is what you are doing. As far as I can see, it looks like you are doing a good job--consider the sources of the criticism. Thank you.
That ended public comment. Executive session followed regarding compensation and discipline. At the end of that session, the trustees returned, opened bids for electrical and plumbing work in the school, and awarded the contracts..
Thursday, March 3, 2011
Limerick for February 20, 2011
We (or maybe just I) need a break from the keyboarding of the public comments from the February 3 meeting, so here is Dave's limerick for last week:
That "Group of 8" proposed no plan,
But said trustees were clueless,
Said Center School work took too long--
Then demanded trustees do less.
Will you support a "Group of 8" man?
Note: "Support" as in "vote for."
That "Group of 8" proposed no plan,
But said trustees were clueless,
Said Center School work took too long--
Then demanded trustees do less.
Will you support a "Group of 8" man?
Note: "Support" as in "vote for."
Wednesday, March 2, 2011
Public Comment 2/3/11, Part 2
Graham Harmon, 11793 Center Road, 11081 S.R. 44, 11915 S.R. 44
I am not going to tell you I have lived in the community for my whole life because it would make some of you guys feel really old. I have been in business for 23 years. There are some things, coming to a few of these meetings, that really concern me as the direction the township is going. I realize that you guys as trustees are under the gun all the time and it is pretty much a thankless job and you have to put up with stupid comments from us people as the public and public speakers. However, there are some things that really concern me and I hate to put you under the gun but I guess I have to.
Jason came around on the campaign and knocked on my door and showed up at my house and said, "I am going to run for township trustee." He handed me a flyer and in that flyer were a couple of things that I noticed. He said, "I feel like I have fresh ideas that could benefit the township. I would like to start an informal website to get the information out about what the township is doing and their accomplishments.. I want to listen and work with the community to better the township."
I thought that was a great idea, so I voted for him. I came to a few of these meetings and last week Mark in public comment when Alan [Brugmann] asked you why you wanted to be a township trustee and your answer was that you enjoy it. I think that it is great that you enjoy it but also that part of the enjoyment of being a trustee is that you need to remember that you have a responsibility to the taxpayers and you need to listen to what the taxpayers are saying. A lot of the ideas that Jason has brought to the table and that he has campaigned about that I have sat in these meetings, you two have regularly voted no against. I would kind of like to know why.
A website is a great idea. As a business owner I wanted to promote my business. I am absolutely computer illiterate--I am a dummy. I am a hillbilly. I don't know how to do computers. I contacted a couple of people [and] for $90.00 a year we have a website. You can go onto our website and we list our labor rates; we have jobs that we took from the very beginning that were totally smashed and we have them in different stages--you can see them from start to finish. We have a place where people can put comments. We can respond to those comments [and] we can [post] those comments. It is a great interaction with our customer base.
The same thing for you guys. You have been working on the Center School. You can use that as a vital tool to promote the work that you are doing so that you don't have people in here putting you under the gun all the time. I have sat on several buildting committees mostly with Crestwood Schools; I was there when the school [system?] evaluated these elementary buildings. Mantua Center School was the absolute worst building the Crestwood school system had. It was deemed not fit to educate kids. It wasn't fair to the taxpayers to put any money into that for education. Yet the township purchased that building and we are going to try to do something that has already not been cost effective. Jerry Carlton bought the Village school. It cost him $1-1/2 million to renovate it before they moved into it. That didn't count the actual purchase of the building. Usually when you go into a project like this you purchase a building and [if] it involves taxpayers' money the first thing you do is form a committee. That committee would consist of 6-8 people. There might be several business owners, there might be some educators, it might be somebody from zoning, it might be a trustee, it might be your clerk. Typically the job of that committee is to do an outreach in the community and find out what they really feel the need for that building is.
Jason suggested a survey and you guys didn't even discuss it. The gymnasium over there, I 100% agree that the township needs a place to have these meetings and a place for an ofice for Marie that is accessible so you don't have to go to her house to get information. That building in my opinion right now, that's what we should be doing, is doing the township offices over there in that school system to where you could have these meetings so that when someone walks in the door, [he] doesn't have everyone turn around and look to see who is coming in the building. I just wonder as far as the gymnasium if you look at Ravenna it's I believe it's the armory building down there. They put a rec center down there. They have Nautilus weights. It was opened up to the community in a matter of no time. They charge people that live in that community a very minimal rate, they can come in, they can work out, they have a llittle walking track in there. I just wondered if anything like that would have been considered. You could have probably gotten some input like that if you went out to the community and reached to those people.
Mark Hall: Graham, not to cut you short, but you are going over . . .
Graham: Interrupted: I am almost done.
Mark: You are over your five minutes, Graham.
Graham: Well, I have gotten two other -- I am speaking for my wife and Gina.
Mark: No, you are speaking for yourself.
Graham: I own five properties in this townsship that I pay taxes on and I am not done. I don't come to these meetings and ever [?]/never[?] speak and I am going to take advantage of this time right now, Mark. I have two more things. I appreciate the time. . .
Mark: Graham. . . .We do have a time limit that everybody is to follow. I'm sorry. We are going to move on.
Graham: Well, are you going to answer any of my questions? Do you want me to go back and go through it?
Mark: I heard a lot of statements. I did not hear . . .
Graham (interrupting): Well, my one question was why you and Vic whenever Jason brings up anmy of his ideas to promote this township to get us out of the Mayberry RFD era, why did you two always vote no?
Vic: I don't think we always vote no, Graham.
Graham: Anything to update you have, his idea for the website, he brought up suggestions about time cards for the employees, you voted that down, the idea of the survey, you wouldn't even bring it up for discussion.
NOTE: Vic tried to respond, but Graham talked over him.
Vic: It's been discussed many times, Graham. Just like everything you brought up has been discussed many times.
Graham: It has?
Vic: Yes, it has.
Graham: You went out and reached out to the community to find out what they would want to do with that school?
Vic: We didn't go out, but we looked into a study when we first--even before we bought the school.
Graham: What was the cost of renovation on that building?
Vic: There was no projected cost in that proposal of what it was going to cost. It was done by another architect at the time in 2003, I believe.
Graham: Interrupted: Neither was intelligible for a sentence or two because of the interruption.
Continued: What are we going to pay for this? Where is all the money going to come from to renovate the whole building? Are we putting a bond issue out? How are we going to pay for the renbovations on the whole building?
Vic: We haven't put a bond issue out. We have been paying for it all along. You know we had meetings and everyone said to go for grants and we went and got grants. We approached everything that we could and went for grants and you are absolutely right. The number 1 object [tenant] for that building from the very start is for Mantua Township. So it's been discussed. That's what we purchased it for--all the other items like the gymnasium fall under assembly. That was one section. One section falls under busines, which is for the offices for the township. The other section falls under education, which means that we have to stay with part of the building as education for all of this compliance.
Graham: OK. I can appreciate that--so you go get drawings to do each phase of that building, so you have drawings.
Vic--We have, and yes, several, so far.
Graham: What is the total cost of that porject?
Vic: Just like this evening, as we went through this plumbing and stuff--there was a projected cost for the phase for the gym, and that had a contingency in it. This was done by the architect., This is a 15% contingency in it, and the total was $104,875.
Graham: That was for the gymn?
V: That was for this annex area, and this involved the outside area site work for parking and everything. That came in at $43,125 on the estimate. We had it done for $22,152. Just like tonight, the electrical work was estimated at $19,895. We had three bids tonight on the electrical work that were much under that.
Vic: Plumbing: $8,050. All the bids of the plubming came in under that. So we have been very responsible with the taxpayers' money.
Graham--interrupted: I'm not saying you not being responsible, but what I am sayinmg is - --
Vic: What I'm trying to do, Graham, is we are trying to get a central location and this is what I have said all along. If we can get a central location, when we have an office, that is the time to put in the website. Right now, we are all working out of our own homes or our own offices.
Graham: Shouldn't that be kind of your main concern right now is the offices and do that? I guess the thing that scares me as a taxpayer is that you guys purchased this building somewhere around June of 2004, correct, or July?
Vic: Probably closer to August.
Graham: You started the building project around 2006. I am not sure when.
Vic: Somewhere around there because it took a while for the first permits because we went for the education--we wanted to stay with the education. Iit was the most strict. We stayed with that to get in and that's what we started with.
Graham: I am nust wondering if--be patient with me--I haven't been coming to meetings and I want to know for myself--typically when you do a project like this and as I said I have sat on a lot of these committees--you find out first what and you obviously know what you want to do. You want township offices. You know I would like to see a rec center, a gym, whatever--you have your idea about a gym.
Vic: That's assembly. The gymnasium falls under assembly.
Graham: And you have your education in the bottom [of the building]..
Vic: Education would cover that section at this time, but it can be extended to other parts, but the assembly part falls under multipurpose use, which you are saying like a rec center or we thought because of the kitchen another use was for emergency shelter if we were to have an emergency because we have the kitchen. The Fire Department most likely is not going to be able to handle Shalersville, Mantua Village, and Mantua Township, but if they were to bring a squad up here, we know if we had a generator we would be self-contained. We have water, we have sewer, we have electricity, and if we had a generator, and that is something we looked into with all these Homeland Security grants, but most of that stuff goes to fire and police before it goes anywhere else. So the gymnasium is a multipurpose section--the main thing is we would love to see everybody in that building to vote so that we are not separated.
At one time we voted in this building [Township Hall] and in the Civic Center. We worked hard last year to get two of the three precincts back into the Civic Center to meet the ADA requirements. That's the gymnasium--we could have everybody in there. That's why we set up the parking the way that we did and everything like that. Things have been going really well. We went after a NOPEC grand and received $50,000, and there may be a Stage 2 that we will apply for that. Not only would that go for a second NOPEC grant for the gym, but also to apply to this building.
Graham: In your opinion, Vic, what is the first priority in that building and second priority--I mean you are
looking at this as a 3-phase project and you started on it in '06. This is 2011 [and] you're still not done and then you're going to go into phase 2--you're just going to carry it out for years?
Vic: No. I believe we are in phase 2. We have a permit--
Graham: Interrupting: What is Phase 1?
Vic: Phase 1 would be the education.
G: And that's not done yet.
V: No.
G: Phase 2 is what?
V: Phase 2 is the gymnasium and annex area.
G.: And you are going to wait to do your offices last?
V: That is the business [use]; out of the 3 that is supposed to be the easiest.
G: Really.
V: That's what we have been told. Now we have a rapport with Portage County [the Building Department], there has been a change down there and things have worked in our favor with that change. We are proceeding very well--we didn't get the OK on the prints for Phase 2 until October and before the end of November, we had the parking lot put in and handicapped parking and all that. That's what we are proceeding with, the electrical and the plumbing for that area.
Graham: OK, so you got Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and you're getting bids on Phase 1 now, which is your education portion, but you have no idea what the whole three phases together are going to cost the township.
Vic: Not at this time.
Graham: How are you going to finance that?
Vic: Well, the building itself we financed through a lease-purchase agreement.
Graham: Well, I guess you are just planning on continually dragging this out year after year after year as you go. Are you eventually going to say "Let's get this project done and put a bond issue on . . ."get it done and finish it so the community can use ir or what . . .
Vic: We should be finished with Phase 2 in the spring and can start using the gymnasium. Then the other permit, we hope to be Phase 1, we look to be done with that before April so those two portions we can be using this year.
G: I'm done, Mark. Sorry.
Public speaking time limit is 5 minutes per person. Graham took 17 minutes.
I am not going to tell you I have lived in the community for my whole life because it would make some of you guys feel really old. I have been in business for 23 years. There are some things, coming to a few of these meetings, that really concern me as the direction the township is going. I realize that you guys as trustees are under the gun all the time and it is pretty much a thankless job and you have to put up with stupid comments from us people as the public and public speakers. However, there are some things that really concern me and I hate to put you under the gun but I guess I have to.
Jason came around on the campaign and knocked on my door and showed up at my house and said, "I am going to run for township trustee." He handed me a flyer and in that flyer were a couple of things that I noticed. He said, "I feel like I have fresh ideas that could benefit the township. I would like to start an informal website to get the information out about what the township is doing and their accomplishments.. I want to listen and work with the community to better the township."
I thought that was a great idea, so I voted for him. I came to a few of these meetings and last week Mark in public comment when Alan [Brugmann] asked you why you wanted to be a township trustee and your answer was that you enjoy it. I think that it is great that you enjoy it but also that part of the enjoyment of being a trustee is that you need to remember that you have a responsibility to the taxpayers and you need to listen to what the taxpayers are saying. A lot of the ideas that Jason has brought to the table and that he has campaigned about that I have sat in these meetings, you two have regularly voted no against. I would kind of like to know why.
A website is a great idea. As a business owner I wanted to promote my business. I am absolutely computer illiterate--I am a dummy. I am a hillbilly. I don't know how to do computers. I contacted a couple of people [and] for $90.00 a year we have a website. You can go onto our website and we list our labor rates; we have jobs that we took from the very beginning that were totally smashed and we have them in different stages--you can see them from start to finish. We have a place where people can put comments. We can respond to those comments [and] we can [post] those comments. It is a great interaction with our customer base.
The same thing for you guys. You have been working on the Center School. You can use that as a vital tool to promote the work that you are doing so that you don't have people in here putting you under the gun all the time. I have sat on several buildting committees mostly with Crestwood Schools; I was there when the school [system?] evaluated these elementary buildings. Mantua Center School was the absolute worst building the Crestwood school system had. It was deemed not fit to educate kids. It wasn't fair to the taxpayers to put any money into that for education. Yet the township purchased that building and we are going to try to do something that has already not been cost effective. Jerry Carlton bought the Village school. It cost him $1-1/2 million to renovate it before they moved into it. That didn't count the actual purchase of the building. Usually when you go into a project like this you purchase a building and [if] it involves taxpayers' money the first thing you do is form a committee. That committee would consist of 6-8 people. There might be several business owners, there might be some educators, it might be somebody from zoning, it might be a trustee, it might be your clerk. Typically the job of that committee is to do an outreach in the community and find out what they really feel the need for that building is.
Jason suggested a survey and you guys didn't even discuss it. The gymnasium over there, I 100% agree that the township needs a place to have these meetings and a place for an ofice for Marie that is accessible so you don't have to go to her house to get information. That building in my opinion right now, that's what we should be doing, is doing the township offices over there in that school system to where you could have these meetings so that when someone walks in the door, [he] doesn't have everyone turn around and look to see who is coming in the building. I just wonder as far as the gymnasium if you look at Ravenna it's I believe it's the armory building down there. They put a rec center down there. They have Nautilus weights. It was opened up to the community in a matter of no time. They charge people that live in that community a very minimal rate, they can come in, they can work out, they have a llittle walking track in there. I just wondered if anything like that would have been considered. You could have probably gotten some input like that if you went out to the community and reached to those people.
Mark Hall: Graham, not to cut you short, but you are going over . . .
Graham: Interrupted: I am almost done.
Mark: You are over your five minutes, Graham.
Graham: Well, I have gotten two other -- I am speaking for my wife and Gina.
Mark: No, you are speaking for yourself.
Graham: I own five properties in this townsship that I pay taxes on and I am not done. I don't come to these meetings and ever [?]/never[?] speak and I am going to take advantage of this time right now, Mark. I have two more things. I appreciate the time. . .
Mark: Graham. . . .We do have a time limit that everybody is to follow. I'm sorry. We are going to move on.
Graham: Well, are you going to answer any of my questions? Do you want me to go back and go through it?
Mark: I heard a lot of statements. I did not hear . . .
Graham (interrupting): Well, my one question was why you and Vic whenever Jason brings up anmy of his ideas to promote this township to get us out of the Mayberry RFD era, why did you two always vote no?
Vic: I don't think we always vote no, Graham.
Graham: Anything to update you have, his idea for the website, he brought up suggestions about time cards for the employees, you voted that down, the idea of the survey, you wouldn't even bring it up for discussion.
NOTE: Vic tried to respond, but Graham talked over him.
Vic: It's been discussed many times, Graham. Just like everything you brought up has been discussed many times.
Graham: It has?
Vic: Yes, it has.
Graham: You went out and reached out to the community to find out what they would want to do with that school?
Vic: We didn't go out, but we looked into a study when we first--even before we bought the school.
Graham: What was the cost of renovation on that building?
Vic: There was no projected cost in that proposal of what it was going to cost. It was done by another architect at the time in 2003, I believe.
Graham: Interrupted: Neither was intelligible for a sentence or two because of the interruption.
Continued: What are we going to pay for this? Where is all the money going to come from to renovate the whole building? Are we putting a bond issue out? How are we going to pay for the renbovations on the whole building?
Vic: We haven't put a bond issue out. We have been paying for it all along. You know we had meetings and everyone said to go for grants and we went and got grants. We approached everything that we could and went for grants and you are absolutely right. The number 1 object [tenant] for that building from the very start is for Mantua Township. So it's been discussed. That's what we purchased it for--all the other items like the gymnasium fall under assembly. That was one section. One section falls under busines, which is for the offices for the township. The other section falls under education, which means that we have to stay with part of the building as education for all of this compliance.
Graham: OK. I can appreciate that--so you go get drawings to do each phase of that building, so you have drawings.
Vic--We have, and yes, several, so far.
Graham: What is the total cost of that porject?
Vic: Just like this evening, as we went through this plumbing and stuff--there was a projected cost for the phase for the gym, and that had a contingency in it. This was done by the architect., This is a 15% contingency in it, and the total was $104,875.
Graham: That was for the gymn?
V: That was for this annex area, and this involved the outside area site work for parking and everything. That came in at $43,125 on the estimate. We had it done for $22,152. Just like tonight, the electrical work was estimated at $19,895. We had three bids tonight on the electrical work that were much under that.
Vic: Plumbing: $8,050. All the bids of the plubming came in under that. So we have been very responsible with the taxpayers' money.
Graham--interrupted: I'm not saying you not being responsible, but what I am sayinmg is - --
Vic: What I'm trying to do, Graham, is we are trying to get a central location and this is what I have said all along. If we can get a central location, when we have an office, that is the time to put in the website. Right now, we are all working out of our own homes or our own offices.
Graham: Shouldn't that be kind of your main concern right now is the offices and do that? I guess the thing that scares me as a taxpayer is that you guys purchased this building somewhere around June of 2004, correct, or July?
Vic: Probably closer to August.
Graham: You started the building project around 2006. I am not sure when.
Vic: Somewhere around there because it took a while for the first permits because we went for the education--we wanted to stay with the education. Iit was the most strict. We stayed with that to get in and that's what we started with.
Graham: I am nust wondering if--be patient with me--I haven't been coming to meetings and I want to know for myself--typically when you do a project like this and as I said I have sat on a lot of these committees--you find out first what and you obviously know what you want to do. You want township offices. You know I would like to see a rec center, a gym, whatever--you have your idea about a gym.
Vic: That's assembly. The gymnasium falls under assembly.
Graham: And you have your education in the bottom [of the building]..
Vic: Education would cover that section at this time, but it can be extended to other parts, but the assembly part falls under multipurpose use, which you are saying like a rec center or we thought because of the kitchen another use was for emergency shelter if we were to have an emergency because we have the kitchen. The Fire Department most likely is not going to be able to handle Shalersville, Mantua Village, and Mantua Township, but if they were to bring a squad up here, we know if we had a generator we would be self-contained. We have water, we have sewer, we have electricity, and if we had a generator, and that is something we looked into with all these Homeland Security grants, but most of that stuff goes to fire and police before it goes anywhere else. So the gymnasium is a multipurpose section--the main thing is we would love to see everybody in that building to vote so that we are not separated.
At one time we voted in this building [Township Hall] and in the Civic Center. We worked hard last year to get two of the three precincts back into the Civic Center to meet the ADA requirements. That's the gymnasium--we could have everybody in there. That's why we set up the parking the way that we did and everything like that. Things have been going really well. We went after a NOPEC grand and received $50,000, and there may be a Stage 2 that we will apply for that. Not only would that go for a second NOPEC grant for the gym, but also to apply to this building.
Graham: In your opinion, Vic, what is the first priority in that building and second priority--I mean you are
looking at this as a 3-phase project and you started on it in '06. This is 2011 [and] you're still not done and then you're going to go into phase 2--you're just going to carry it out for years?
Vic: No. I believe we are in phase 2. We have a permit--
Graham: Interrupting: What is Phase 1?
Vic: Phase 1 would be the education.
G: And that's not done yet.
V: No.
G: Phase 2 is what?
V: Phase 2 is the gymnasium and annex area.
G.: And you are going to wait to do your offices last?
V: That is the business [use]; out of the 3 that is supposed to be the easiest.
G: Really.
V: That's what we have been told. Now we have a rapport with Portage County [the Building Department], there has been a change down there and things have worked in our favor with that change. We are proceeding very well--we didn't get the OK on the prints for Phase 2 until October and before the end of November, we had the parking lot put in and handicapped parking and all that. That's what we are proceeding with, the electrical and the plumbing for that area.
Graham: OK, so you got Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and you're getting bids on Phase 1 now, which is your education portion, but you have no idea what the whole three phases together are going to cost the township.
Vic: Not at this time.
Graham: How are you going to finance that?
Vic: Well, the building itself we financed through a lease-purchase agreement.
Graham: Well, I guess you are just planning on continually dragging this out year after year after year as you go. Are you eventually going to say "Let's get this project done and put a bond issue on . . ."get it done and finish it so the community can use ir or what . . .
Vic: We should be finished with Phase 2 in the spring and can start using the gymnasium. Then the other permit, we hope to be Phase 1, we look to be done with that before April so those two portions we can be using this year.
G: I'm done, Mark. Sorry.
Public speaking time limit is 5 minutes per person. Graham took 17 minutes.
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