At the May 19 Mantua Township Trustees meeting, Terri Vechery updated the trustees about the committee's progress. We are collecting information for use in the building on July 10, deciding what information to present and how, and assigning various information gathering and other activities to committee members. Also, the Garden Club is supplying pots that will be filled with flowers to line the walk to the door and lend a festive air to the occasion before people even get inside.
We have determined how to publicize the event through news releases and community sections of the papers, for the most part, thus minimizing the cost of publicity without sacrificing coverage.
At the May 5 meeting, John Festa, Chamberlin Road, raised questions about the kitchen and whether we could actually have an event involving food. In his report, Mark Hall addressed those questions.
I talked with the sanitarian at the Portage County Health Department. There are three classifications of use.
For a catered event, a license is required.
Every fall we have the clambake at the Civic Center. A one-day license is required.
For the potluck planned for the open house, no license is required.
Mr. Festa was not present to hear that information..
Monday, May 23, 2011
Saturday, May 21, 2011
Mantua Township Trustees, 5/19/11, Public Comment, Part 2
Note: The previous post contains prepared comments that Terri Vechery presented to the trustees. Her remarks below were not prepared, but inquiry.
Terri Vechery: I was wondering if the crabgrass spraying had begun and was over, or what.
Mark Hall: They have done out front [of the Township Hall] and the ball diamonds had not been done because of the water. Both Crestwood Youth Baseball and Ponytail League have been notified about the fertilizer and trimming of the field. They have been notified and are passing the information along.
This is when Terri read her prepared remarks, given in the previous post exactly as she wrote them.
Jason: There was never any spraying [on the ball fields.]
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: Jason, one of the things you said in your campaign materials was that you are accountable. You had also, as I mentioned last time, said that you wanted to have community dinners. However, when I asked you about how you had gotten from that statement to obvious reluctance regarding the Open House potluck, you refused to answer.
So that makes two campaign claims that you are not living up to.
[Note: At about this point, Dawn interrupted with a remark to the effect that my comments were inappropriate. Mark stopped her. I understand that she stood to make her remarks and then either remained standing or stood again to make her own public comment.]
I am a taxpayer, which means that I am your employer. Not I alone, but I am the one here, right now, addressing the issue of your refusing to be accountable when you refused to answer a simple, straightforward question.
I think, in a typical workplace, that would be considered insubordination. Maybe times have changed, but I think insubordination may still be a firing offense. How long do you think you would last at Progressive if you refused to answer a direct question from your boss?
You may be doing exactly what your supporters here meeting after meeting are telling you to do. However, the discrepancy between what you said you would do and what you are doing means that you are deceiving people who voted for you because they believed what you said. And now we're all stuck with you.
Jason: I am also a taxpayer and a lifelong resident and I am sorry you feel the way you do.
Dawn Pechman: I would like to get a copy of the minutes that were approved tonight. Marie, are you going to call me, because I do not know what time the meeting will end. [Dawn has a standing order for the minutes, expects Marie to have them at an appointed time (which Marie does), and then picks them up when it suits her, apparently.]
Note: A time was agreed on; I think Dawn did not show up at that time.
Dawn: Asked Terri what was going to be re-zoned.
Mark stopped Dawn and reminded her that remarks be directed to the trustees.
Dawn asked if the trustees would ask/require Terri to give that information. (Not sure about the wording, there. The issue is that there is a request in the offing for a re-zoning.)
Terri: The zoning is pending.
Dawn: I thought that since it was reported [as being in the works?] it had been submitted.
Dawn: What is the process for the zoning and the appeal?
Dawn also asked about the time frame for the appeal, rezoning, and the whole sequence.
Mark, who sat on the Zoning Commission for nine years before being elected trustee, reviewed the procedure, with various interruptions from Dawn, stating "I understand that," and then asking about something next in the sequence.
Mark: Keep in mind that it could take more than one hearing. Dawn interrupted.
Mark: The trustees and zoning board may or may not adopt it.
Dawn: It has taken 11 years on the re-write [of the zoning book], and it may or may not be adopted.
Mark allowed as how that is so.
Note: The zoning book and the long time for rewriting it from start to finish, incorporating ideas that were not relevant or even a possibility 11 years ago, is a particular issue for Dawn. Because Dave is an alternate and has worked on the re-write, I know that until the past year, with a change in the Regional Planning office in Ravenna, sections that had been carefully, painstakingly revised came back not at all as they had left here, and had to be redone. Then those revisions had to be sent, and I think that they may not have been done right then, either. I think. It was a very frustrating process.
With a change in the Regional Planning office, those frustrations are ended, and things are going well, regardless of what Dawn thinks.
Steve Zelinski: (spelling may not be quite right). I just heard the comment about insubordination. But if we are calling Jason about insubordination, what about . . . .
Mr. Zelinski's following remarks harked back to an incident in December that involved him and Bud Foster both lying about something that happened between Bud and Dave. If subsequent events and comments make it necessary, I will give a full account of that.
Suffice it to say here that it is clear from Mr. Zelinski's remarks that he does not understand what insubordination is.
Dave Pollard: (Dave stood to make his comments.) Mark, you said something about security [Mark had said that an executive session would be necessary to consider security issues/matters and (I think) a small personnel matter.] Dave had no further comment about the security.
Also: The guys doing the sewer project [now in progress down Rt. 82] seem to be on top of things. They went under my field tile and were good about not breaking through it and promising to replace it. If they are doing Aurora Meadows and are as careful as I have seen, things should be OK.
Jim Aldrich. Chamberlin Road. One question I had is that I have been at the cemetery putting up flags [Jim does that every year for Memorial Day on the veterans' graves] and noticed that the storage shed seems to be down in a hole.
Vic: It has slid off the foundations because of all the rain.
Jim: I think mowing the roadsides is the best thing going. As far as the weed killer, it has been getting done for a long time and there has been no outcry. I don't see that there is an ongoing threat to our lives. So I am 100% behind your [Jason's] ideas. Keep up the good work. [Note: Jim's father constructed golf courses and was considered an authority in the field.]
Blogger's Note: The issue with the fertilizer and week killers is not the immediate effects. There is increasing scientific research that implicates such chemicals, as well as pesticides, in many developmental problems with children--not with their parents, necessarily, nor even with the children themselves at the time. Some of the effects are long term. Some are the result of parents' exposure, and their children subsequently exhibit both behavioral and physical problems.
My personal take is this: I don't trust statements by manufacturers that any chemical they manufacture is safe or has no effects. And the EPA and FDA are nearly toothless in this regard. Just this past year, two drugs have been pulled from the market. One lowered cholesterol--but raised the chance of heart attacks. I believe that the heart attack risk only showed up at a point beyond the time covered by the manufacturer's clinical trials. The other drug was, I believe, something that treated diabetes. It also raised the incidence of death.
So--manufacturers intend to make money from the sale of their products. (How's that for brilliantly stating the perfectly obvious?) And applicators of those products, no matter how nice they are, expect to make money from their use.
The Hippocratic Oath in medicine is this: "First, do no harm."
I am skeptical that no harm is being done; safety should trump cosmetics. End of sermon.
Terri Vechery: I was wondering if the crabgrass spraying had begun and was over, or what.
Mark Hall: They have done out front [of the Township Hall] and the ball diamonds had not been done because of the water. Both Crestwood Youth Baseball and Ponytail League have been notified about the fertilizer and trimming of the field. They have been notified and are passing the information along.
This is when Terri read her prepared remarks, given in the previous post exactly as she wrote them.
Jason: There was never any spraying [on the ball fields.]
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: Jason, one of the things you said in your campaign materials was that you are accountable. You had also, as I mentioned last time, said that you wanted to have community dinners. However, when I asked you about how you had gotten from that statement to obvious reluctance regarding the Open House potluck, you refused to answer.
So that makes two campaign claims that you are not living up to.
[Note: At about this point, Dawn interrupted with a remark to the effect that my comments were inappropriate. Mark stopped her. I understand that she stood to make her remarks and then either remained standing or stood again to make her own public comment.]
I am a taxpayer, which means that I am your employer. Not I alone, but I am the one here, right now, addressing the issue of your refusing to be accountable when you refused to answer a simple, straightforward question.
I think, in a typical workplace, that would be considered insubordination. Maybe times have changed, but I think insubordination may still be a firing offense. How long do you think you would last at Progressive if you refused to answer a direct question from your boss?
You may be doing exactly what your supporters here meeting after meeting are telling you to do. However, the discrepancy between what you said you would do and what you are doing means that you are deceiving people who voted for you because they believed what you said. And now we're all stuck with you.
Jason: I am also a taxpayer and a lifelong resident and I am sorry you feel the way you do.
Dawn Pechman: I would like to get a copy of the minutes that were approved tonight. Marie, are you going to call me, because I do not know what time the meeting will end. [Dawn has a standing order for the minutes, expects Marie to have them at an appointed time (which Marie does), and then picks them up when it suits her, apparently.]
Note: A time was agreed on; I think Dawn did not show up at that time.
Dawn: Asked Terri what was going to be re-zoned.
Mark stopped Dawn and reminded her that remarks be directed to the trustees.
Dawn asked if the trustees would ask/require Terri to give that information. (Not sure about the wording, there. The issue is that there is a request in the offing for a re-zoning.)
Terri: The zoning is pending.
Dawn: I thought that since it was reported [as being in the works?] it had been submitted.
Dawn: What is the process for the zoning and the appeal?
Dawn also asked about the time frame for the appeal, rezoning, and the whole sequence.
Mark, who sat on the Zoning Commission for nine years before being elected trustee, reviewed the procedure, with various interruptions from Dawn, stating "I understand that," and then asking about something next in the sequence.
Mark: Keep in mind that it could take more than one hearing. Dawn interrupted.
Mark: The trustees and zoning board may or may not adopt it.
Dawn: It has taken 11 years on the re-write [of the zoning book], and it may or may not be adopted.
Mark allowed as how that is so.
Note: The zoning book and the long time for rewriting it from start to finish, incorporating ideas that were not relevant or even a possibility 11 years ago, is a particular issue for Dawn. Because Dave is an alternate and has worked on the re-write, I know that until the past year, with a change in the Regional Planning office in Ravenna, sections that had been carefully, painstakingly revised came back not at all as they had left here, and had to be redone. Then those revisions had to be sent, and I think that they may not have been done right then, either. I think. It was a very frustrating process.
With a change in the Regional Planning office, those frustrations are ended, and things are going well, regardless of what Dawn thinks.
Steve Zelinski: (spelling may not be quite right). I just heard the comment about insubordination. But if we are calling Jason about insubordination, what about . . . .
Mr. Zelinski's following remarks harked back to an incident in December that involved him and Bud Foster both lying about something that happened between Bud and Dave. If subsequent events and comments make it necessary, I will give a full account of that.
Suffice it to say here that it is clear from Mr. Zelinski's remarks that he does not understand what insubordination is.
Dave Pollard: (Dave stood to make his comments.) Mark, you said something about security [Mark had said that an executive session would be necessary to consider security issues/matters and (I think) a small personnel matter.] Dave had no further comment about the security.
Also: The guys doing the sewer project [now in progress down Rt. 82] seem to be on top of things. They went under my field tile and were good about not breaking through it and promising to replace it. If they are doing Aurora Meadows and are as careful as I have seen, things should be OK.
Jim Aldrich. Chamberlin Road. One question I had is that I have been at the cemetery putting up flags [Jim does that every year for Memorial Day on the veterans' graves] and noticed that the storage shed seems to be down in a hole.
Vic: It has slid off the foundations because of all the rain.
Jim: I think mowing the roadsides is the best thing going. As far as the weed killer, it has been getting done for a long time and there has been no outcry. I don't see that there is an ongoing threat to our lives. So I am 100% behind your [Jason's] ideas. Keep up the good work. [Note: Jim's father constructed golf courses and was considered an authority in the field.]
Blogger's Note: The issue with the fertilizer and week killers is not the immediate effects. There is increasing scientific research that implicates such chemicals, as well as pesticides, in many developmental problems with children--not with their parents, necessarily, nor even with the children themselves at the time. Some of the effects are long term. Some are the result of parents' exposure, and their children subsequently exhibit both behavioral and physical problems.
My personal take is this: I don't trust statements by manufacturers that any chemical they manufacture is safe or has no effects. And the EPA and FDA are nearly toothless in this regard. Just this past year, two drugs have been pulled from the market. One lowered cholesterol--but raised the chance of heart attacks. I believe that the heart attack risk only showed up at a point beyond the time covered by the manufacturer's clinical trials. The other drug was, I believe, something that treated diabetes. It also raised the incidence of death.
So--manufacturers intend to make money from the sale of their products. (How's that for brilliantly stating the perfectly obvious?) And applicators of those products, no matter how nice they are, expect to make money from their use.
The Hippocratic Oath in medicine is this: "First, do no harm."
I am skeptical that no harm is being done; safety should trump cosmetics. End of sermon.
Friday, May 20, 2011
Mantua Township Trustees 5/19/11, Public Comment Part 1
Only a few people spoke, but Terri's remarks are long enough (and, in my opinion, cogent enough) to warrant their own post.
Terri Vechery: I live in a township. I like birds, trees, and the openness that the farm fields provide while driving through our township.
I love wildflowers, wild grasses, and milkweed; all of these are free for the picking because they grow along the roadsides and ditches in every township.
I have used them in many forms of art over many years.
But the city has taken over the township. We mow our roadsides spring, summer, and fall. I am forced to drive to other townships and country roads that are not quite so overtaken by big city ideas just to find milkweed, chicory, or those grasses I need for the art I do now.
Several years ago, when the gas prices rocketed, the townships and county did not have the budget to mow the roadsides. I read many comments in the Record Courier of people noticing how beautiful our wildflowers and roadsides were. You don't know what you have until it is gone!
But we acclimate, we humans. Now we budget for the gas and new machines we need to chop, mow, and citify our rural township roads.
I attended the Mantua Village Revitalization meeting. Jason is on the advisory board and states he is from one of the oldest farming families in the county. I would think that if you make that claim you would be guarding our township against city ideas, such as streetlights, sidewalks, more sewer and water lines, selling our historical Mantua Center School, and maybe the Civic Center and Town Hall if the right price was offered and above all, being environmentally safe . . . not even suggesting spraying the weeds!
And yet Jason convinced Vic and Mark that the right thing to do would be to citify our township by spraying to kill crabgrass. How many people complained about the crabgrass??? I am at every meeting and do not recall anyone complaining. I suggested that the baseball teams be notified about the spraying and the day the spray sign appeared on the green, a week or more ago (and it is still up) with its 24-hour warning, neither baseball coach I talked to had heard a thing!!!
We are still debating single hauler trash pick up that was initiated by one person in our township.
I am one person . . . .
1. I am asking you to not spray any weed killer or so called fertilizer at all on any township land ever again and . . . .
2. Please mow the roadsides in early spring if you must, keep the sightline at the corners that really, really need it clear in the summer and do not mow the roadsides until late, late fall.
Blogger's note: Mark and Jason conferred briefly, and Mark stated that the whole application had been of granular material and that nothing had been done on the ballfields because of how wet it has been. Nothing had been sprayed.
Terri Vechery: I live in a township. I like birds, trees, and the openness that the farm fields provide while driving through our township.
I love wildflowers, wild grasses, and milkweed; all of these are free for the picking because they grow along the roadsides and ditches in every township.
I have used them in many forms of art over many years.
But the city has taken over the township. We mow our roadsides spring, summer, and fall. I am forced to drive to other townships and country roads that are not quite so overtaken by big city ideas just to find milkweed, chicory, or those grasses I need for the art I do now.
Several years ago, when the gas prices rocketed, the townships and county did not have the budget to mow the roadsides. I read many comments in the Record Courier of people noticing how beautiful our wildflowers and roadsides were. You don't know what you have until it is gone!
But we acclimate, we humans. Now we budget for the gas and new machines we need to chop, mow, and citify our rural township roads.
I attended the Mantua Village Revitalization meeting. Jason is on the advisory board and states he is from one of the oldest farming families in the county. I would think that if you make that claim you would be guarding our township against city ideas, such as streetlights, sidewalks, more sewer and water lines, selling our historical Mantua Center School, and maybe the Civic Center and Town Hall if the right price was offered and above all, being environmentally safe . . . not even suggesting spraying the weeds!
And yet Jason convinced Vic and Mark that the right thing to do would be to citify our township by spraying to kill crabgrass. How many people complained about the crabgrass??? I am at every meeting and do not recall anyone complaining. I suggested that the baseball teams be notified about the spraying and the day the spray sign appeared on the green, a week or more ago (and it is still up) with its 24-hour warning, neither baseball coach I talked to had heard a thing!!!
We are still debating single hauler trash pick up that was initiated by one person in our township.
I am one person . . . .
1. I am asking you to not spray any weed killer or so called fertilizer at all on any township land ever again and . . . .
2. Please mow the roadsides in early spring if you must, keep the sightline at the corners that really, really need it clear in the summer and do not mow the roadsides until late, late fall.
Blogger's note: Mark and Jason conferred briefly, and Mark stated that the whole application had been of granular material and that nothing had been done on the ballfields because of how wet it has been. Nothing had been sprayed.
Thursday, May 19, 2011
To Newcomers as of May 19
If you are reading this blog for the first time, welcome, and I hope that it is interesting enough for you to continue. If you are new to blogs (I sure was in February, when this thing was born), the most recent posts are at the top; the oldest, at the bottom.
This blog has a couple of quirks that I don't know how to fix. In the right hand column, if you scroll down through the long white space after "About Me," you will find a little bit about my brother Dave and his limericks, and then below that is the archive of posts on the blog.
Since beginning this, I have realized that verbatim accounts of public comment in trustees meetings are very difficult to do without a recording, and very, very time-consuming even with a recording. So the public comment posts from the meetings are factually and verbally accurate (and I indicate where I'm unsure about a word or phrase), but not necessarily word for word.
Other posts are things that I have discovered since getting involved in how the township works--things I never knew but that have become fascinating. The target length for my own posts is about 500 words, and public comment that goes on for quite a while gets broken into separate posts. The MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) factor can get pretty big for some meetings.
The blog does not have a public comment area. However, if you want to contact me, the e-mail address (not a link; it has to be typed in) is at the top of the page. If you want to get "New Post" messages, please contact me. The only time I will use your e-mial address is to announce a new post.
I hope you browse a little, and that perhaps you will check "Our School--A Jewel," "It's About Character," "That Rogue Website," "Who Are Those Masked People?" and "Let the Sun Shine In." By then, you will either want to stay, or you will decide to slam the door and leave, figuratively. I hope you stay.
This blog has a couple of quirks that I don't know how to fix. In the right hand column, if you scroll down through the long white space after "About Me," you will find a little bit about my brother Dave and his limericks, and then below that is the archive of posts on the blog.
Since beginning this, I have realized that verbatim accounts of public comment in trustees meetings are very difficult to do without a recording, and very, very time-consuming even with a recording. So the public comment posts from the meetings are factually and verbally accurate (and I indicate where I'm unsure about a word or phrase), but not necessarily word for word.
Other posts are things that I have discovered since getting involved in how the township works--things I never knew but that have become fascinating. The target length for my own posts is about 500 words, and public comment that goes on for quite a while gets broken into separate posts. The MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) factor can get pretty big for some meetings.
The blog does not have a public comment area. However, if you want to contact me, the e-mail address (not a link; it has to be typed in) is at the top of the page. If you want to get "New Post" messages, please contact me. The only time I will use your e-mial address is to announce a new post.
I hope you browse a little, and that perhaps you will check "Our School--A Jewel," "It's About Character," "That Rogue Website," "Who Are Those Masked People?" and "Let the Sun Shine In." By then, you will either want to stay, or you will decide to slam the door and leave, figuratively. I hope you stay.
Sunday, May 15, 2011
That Rogue Website
From time to time, there is an All Boards meeting: the Board of Trustees, the Zoning Commission, the Board of Zoning Appeals, and the Zoning Inspector. I attended the meeting on March 31, 2011, and thought it was very interesting One of the topics discussed with considerable intensity was the "citizens' website."
I asked the people who commented whether they were willing to be quoted specifically. Half said it was OK, and half said they were very wary of being quoted in something that would go out into cyberspace and stay there forever. Everyone was OK with the jist of their remarks being presented here.
First of all, the "citizens' website" is viewed with scorn by probably all but one of the people attending the meeting. It has been seen by people the township deals with in Ravenna. One of those people is concerned about the tone and content of the website: that it does not do the township any good because it is so biased. People who are looking to move, perhaps, now check possible new locales by going on line. What they see there will affect their impression of a community or area.
[Note: there are people in the township who actually think that the website is an official TOWNSHIP site. It is not. If you encounter anyone who thinks it IS official, please correct that misconception.]
I particularly appreciated this comment: Democracy is in the room, doing what we are doing tonight [talking with each other, carrying out the business of the township]. When it [information] is biased or edited on the computer, it is wrong. If [people] want to know [what is happening], they should show up at a meeting.
One person referred to "that rogue website," and I did not get all of those remarks--which were, as the saying goes, dripping with scorn.
Another comment was this: We have a so-called "Mantua Township" website. It should say "political advertisement" [because] it is so biased. A lot of people see that crap [speaker's exact word] as if it were the truth.
Further remarks: In fact, the township does NOT have a website, despite the name on that one. The site does not represent the trustees in any way, and they do not respond to it in any way. Who owns it is still cloaked in secrecy, except for one name on it. Whoever owns it should actually step up and take ownership of it.
[Blogger's note: I believe there is a clear reason why the site is flying under false colors; more
about that in future posts.]
People tend to forget that websites are global, and once they and their comments are out there, they are forever.
Another telling comment was that many people do not know how local government works, and that occasionally, when people end up in a Zoning Commission or Board of Zoning appeals meeting, part of the meeting's discussion is actually a teaching session about what township government is and how it works.
Blogger's note: Part of the anger about the website, in my opinion, is that, not only is it false, but also it is anonymous--a spewing of nastiness best saved for grafitti on the walls of grubby washrooms. The people posting on the public comment clearly know nothing about how the township works or what may be behind some of the things that they are yowling about.
Since I began attending meetings, I have come to appreciate the way our government, from township through federal levels, is structured. I have also come to appreciate the people who are doing that work for all of us here in the township. They are, to the very best of their understanding, working for what is best for the township and have been doing so for years.
Do they always agree on what that best is? No. Do I agree with all of them? No. But they are doing hard work that, without their efforts, would leave the township in shambles. Of course they are angry about that website, and rightly so. They have been stabbed in the back by cowards.
I asked the people who commented whether they were willing to be quoted specifically. Half said it was OK, and half said they were very wary of being quoted in something that would go out into cyberspace and stay there forever. Everyone was OK with the jist of their remarks being presented here.
First of all, the "citizens' website" is viewed with scorn by probably all but one of the people attending the meeting. It has been seen by people the township deals with in Ravenna. One of those people is concerned about the tone and content of the website: that it does not do the township any good because it is so biased. People who are looking to move, perhaps, now check possible new locales by going on line. What they see there will affect their impression of a community or area.
[Note: there are people in the township who actually think that the website is an official TOWNSHIP site. It is not. If you encounter anyone who thinks it IS official, please correct that misconception.]
I particularly appreciated this comment: Democracy is in the room, doing what we are doing tonight [talking with each other, carrying out the business of the township]. When it [information] is biased or edited on the computer, it is wrong. If [people] want to know [what is happening], they should show up at a meeting.
One person referred to "that rogue website," and I did not get all of those remarks--which were, as the saying goes, dripping with scorn.
Another comment was this: We have a so-called "Mantua Township" website. It should say "political advertisement" [because] it is so biased. A lot of people see that crap [speaker's exact word] as if it were the truth.
Further remarks: In fact, the township does NOT have a website, despite the name on that one. The site does not represent the trustees in any way, and they do not respond to it in any way. Who owns it is still cloaked in secrecy, except for one name on it. Whoever owns it should actually step up and take ownership of it.
[Blogger's note: I believe there is a clear reason why the site is flying under false colors; more
about that in future posts.]
People tend to forget that websites are global, and once they and their comments are out there, they are forever.
Another telling comment was that many people do not know how local government works, and that occasionally, when people end up in a Zoning Commission or Board of Zoning appeals meeting, part of the meeting's discussion is actually a teaching session about what township government is and how it works.
Blogger's note: Part of the anger about the website, in my opinion, is that, not only is it false, but also it is anonymous--a spewing of nastiness best saved for grafitti on the walls of grubby washrooms. The people posting on the public comment clearly know nothing about how the township works or what may be behind some of the things that they are yowling about.
Since I began attending meetings, I have come to appreciate the way our government, from township through federal levels, is structured. I have also come to appreciate the people who are doing that work for all of us here in the township. They are, to the very best of their understanding, working for what is best for the township and have been doing so for years.
Do they always agree on what that best is? No. Do I agree with all of them? No. But they are doing hard work that, without their efforts, would leave the township in shambles. Of course they are angry about that website, and rightly so. They have been stabbed in the back by cowards.
Wednesday, May 11, 2011
Mantua Township Trustees;, 5/5/11
General Public Comment
Some of public comment for this meeting is in the earlier post about the open house. If you haven't read it, I urge you to do so. Character and issues are revealed far better in a speaker's own words than I would dare to tell you.
Terri Vechery: What has been decided on the crabgrass spraying? I did not stay for the end of that meeting. What did you decide to do?
Mark Hall: The green, the Town Hall, Civic Center, bullpen, and ball fields for the fertilization for the grass. Also, on the ball diamond, re-do the infields and the edging. [Note: The awkwardness of Mark's first sentence is either my fault for missing a word, or is the result of a conversational exchange, which is often not as polished as writing would be.]
Terri: So you decided to spray weed killer on the ball fields.
Mark: It is a slow release.
Terri: Did you notify the ball clubs? Jason: No.
Terri: They have always done this at the high school and my daughter has had a reaction. I think it is unfair to do something that has never been done before. I do not think it is fair to the kids who play on those fields. I think the ball players should have been notified.
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: I added my remarks to Terri's about chemicals and children, and referred Jason to the photocopy of that week's Time article about the chemical load that all of us experience and that it is particularly serious for children. Jason was dismissive.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: Asked about the painting [in the school]. The rest of Mr. Festa's remarks during public comment are in the post about the Open House.
Larry Lietzow, 4266 S.R. 82. Did I hear you say that you are going to paint part of the basement? Have you checked for lead paint or black mold?
Vic Grimm: Samples will be taken before it is painted.
Dawn Pechman: So when does the building get to be used after the Open House and when and how do you rent it?
Mark: It has not been set yet.
Dawn: I want to add to my records request list. [She wanted a copy of the list I had given the trustees and Marie for the items the trustees would provide at the open house.]
Also: Those chemicals are very healthy. [Terri, Dave, and I have been critical of and skeptical about the use of chemicals on fields where kids will be playing. Jason has accepted the contractor's statement about his experience in applying those chemicals, and Dawn is adding anecdotal experience without research or science in support of Jason's view.]
Roger Hurd, 11251 Center Road: In addition to Roger's remarks about potlucks and serving food as in church and other community dinners, he did a satirical bit about inadvertently trying to turn around in the driveway of CIA headquarters in Washington, D.C.
The jist of it was that, in light of various comments made in trustees meetings about being taxpayers and "we own that building," he wishes now he had gotten up on his muscle and told the armed guards asking for his ID that he was a taxpayer and therefore paid their salaries.
Blogger's note: The great thing about satire is that it can be doubly entertaining: The satire itself is funny, and on top of that, the butt of it may not get it, but acts as if the satirist is the stupid one. Thus, the people who DO get it have a second laugh. Well done, Roger. A bunch of us enjoyed that one.
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: A couple of things. The single trash hauler--it doesn't matter what the you decide. This could almost have been designed to put you in a bad light, no matter what you do.
Second: Jason, at the last meeting I asked and you confirmed that you would sell the Center School. I would like to hear why you would sell it.
Jason: You asked if I would sell it for the right price. [Blogger: Yes, that is what Dave asked then, but this is a new question. Watch what happens, as they say on Bravo! TV.]
Dave: Why?
Jason: My truck is not for sale, and I know what it is worth, and if someone offered me 5 or 10 times what it is worth, I would sell it.
I went to school there from first through fourth gtrade. I don't know if you followed what happened with the Ravenna school. A bid of $168,000 [was rejected]. I have no idea what it is worth. It is worth what someone is willing to pay. But if someone offered us a price we could not refuse, it would be unjust in my opinion [not to sell]. I am not saying everything has a price. But we should at least entertain the idea.
[Blogger's note: Really. Two weeks ago, and at the first mention some time ago that he would sell the building, Jason sounded a lot more definite in his intentions. Please keep that in mind.]
Dave: I also need to correct something I said at the last meeting, that the township would have to buy land to erect a new building if the school were sold. The township would not have to do that. The new township offices could be build where the ball fields are right now.
Blogger's note: Carol Srajer's comments about the school are in the previous post about the open house, but they, or part of them, are highly relevant here: that the school is part of our history as residents and is therefore an anchor for us
.
My own addition to Carol's remarks is this: Everyone in the township does not go to the same church, or maybe not even to any church, so in that respect we have no building, no place, in common. But we all have experience with the Center School, even after students were getting bussed all over the district year by year. That building is our common ground and a place of shared experience. That, not geographical boundaries, is what makes for a community.
Some of public comment for this meeting is in the earlier post about the open house. If you haven't read it, I urge you to do so. Character and issues are revealed far better in a speaker's own words than I would dare to tell you.
Terri Vechery: What has been decided on the crabgrass spraying? I did not stay for the end of that meeting. What did you decide to do?
Mark Hall: The green, the Town Hall, Civic Center, bullpen, and ball fields for the fertilization for the grass. Also, on the ball diamond, re-do the infields and the edging. [Note: The awkwardness of Mark's first sentence is either my fault for missing a word, or is the result of a conversational exchange, which is often not as polished as writing would be.]
Terri: So you decided to spray weed killer on the ball fields.
Mark: It is a slow release.
Terri: Did you notify the ball clubs? Jason: No.
Terri: They have always done this at the high school and my daughter has had a reaction. I think it is unfair to do something that has never been done before. I do not think it is fair to the kids who play on those fields. I think the ball players should have been notified.
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: I added my remarks to Terri's about chemicals and children, and referred Jason to the photocopy of that week's Time article about the chemical load that all of us experience and that it is particularly serious for children. Jason was dismissive.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: Asked about the painting [in the school]. The rest of Mr. Festa's remarks during public comment are in the post about the Open House.
Larry Lietzow, 4266 S.R. 82. Did I hear you say that you are going to paint part of the basement? Have you checked for lead paint or black mold?
Vic Grimm: Samples will be taken before it is painted.
Dawn Pechman: So when does the building get to be used after the Open House and when and how do you rent it?
Mark: It has not been set yet.
Dawn: I want to add to my records request list. [She wanted a copy of the list I had given the trustees and Marie for the items the trustees would provide at the open house.]
Also: Those chemicals are very healthy. [Terri, Dave, and I have been critical of and skeptical about the use of chemicals on fields where kids will be playing. Jason has accepted the contractor's statement about his experience in applying those chemicals, and Dawn is adding anecdotal experience without research or science in support of Jason's view.]
Roger Hurd, 11251 Center Road: In addition to Roger's remarks about potlucks and serving food as in church and other community dinners, he did a satirical bit about inadvertently trying to turn around in the driveway of CIA headquarters in Washington, D.C.
The jist of it was that, in light of various comments made in trustees meetings about being taxpayers and "we own that building," he wishes now he had gotten up on his muscle and told the armed guards asking for his ID that he was a taxpayer and therefore paid their salaries.
Blogger's note: The great thing about satire is that it can be doubly entertaining: The satire itself is funny, and on top of that, the butt of it may not get it, but acts as if the satirist is the stupid one. Thus, the people who DO get it have a second laugh. Well done, Roger. A bunch of us enjoyed that one.
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: A couple of things. The single trash hauler--it doesn't matter what the you decide. This could almost have been designed to put you in a bad light, no matter what you do.
Second: Jason, at the last meeting I asked and you confirmed that you would sell the Center School. I would like to hear why you would sell it.
Jason: You asked if I would sell it for the right price. [Blogger: Yes, that is what Dave asked then, but this is a new question. Watch what happens, as they say on Bravo! TV.]
Dave: Why?
Jason: My truck is not for sale, and I know what it is worth, and if someone offered me 5 or 10 times what it is worth, I would sell it.
I went to school there from first through fourth gtrade. I don't know if you followed what happened with the Ravenna school. A bid of $168,000 [was rejected]. I have no idea what it is worth. It is worth what someone is willing to pay. But if someone offered us a price we could not refuse, it would be unjust in my opinion [not to sell]. I am not saying everything has a price. But we should at least entertain the idea.
[Blogger's note: Really. Two weeks ago, and at the first mention some time ago that he would sell the building, Jason sounded a lot more definite in his intentions. Please keep that in mind.]
Dave: I also need to correct something I said at the last meeting, that the township would have to buy land to erect a new building if the school were sold. The township would not have to do that. The new township offices could be build where the ball fields are right now.
Blogger's note: Carol Srajer's comments about the school are in the previous post about the open house, but they, or part of them, are highly relevant here: that the school is part of our history as residents and is therefore an anchor for us
.
My own addition to Carol's remarks is this: Everyone in the township does not go to the same church, or maybe not even to any church, so in that respect we have no building, no place, in common. But we all have experience with the Center School, even after students were getting bussed all over the district year by year. That building is our common ground and a place of shared experience. That, not geographical boundaries, is what makes for a community.
Sunday, May 8, 2011
Open House!
Save the date: Sunday, July 10, from 1-6 p.m., the trustees, the fiscal officer, the volunteer open house committee, members of the Mantua Historical Society, and other helpers will host an open house at the Mantua Center School to celebrate Phase One being completed. Come, see, and share a potluck with friends and neighbors, or just come and tour the renovated area.
Details are being worked out, and we will be advertising or running stories in the Community Journal and the Record Courier.
Details are being worked out, and we will be advertising or running stories in the Community Journal and the Record Courier.
Center School Open House update
At the May 5 meeting of the Mantua Township Trustees, the Open House Volunteer Committee presented its findings and recommendations for the Open House to celebrate the completion of the Phase One renovation of the Mantua Center School.
At the April 21 meeting, three options had been offered, each trustee leaning towards a different one: potluck, dessert/snack, or catered event.
The committee presented its goals:
A sense of community for all participants
Simplicity for the organizers
Variety and widest appeal for the participants
Widest inclusion of residents
The right amount of food
Minimum cost all around
The only option that satisfies all of those goals is the potluck.
The dessert/snack and catered options do not foster enough sense of community, but make people into guests and outsiders. Both are expensive and both raise problems about either too much or too little food.
The potluck option satisfies all criteria, especially community. When people bring real food to share with others, it is their event.
Cost of the potluck does not have to be more than for a regular meal at home for each family; quantity is automatically adjusted; and variety far exceeds anything that could be catered within any reasonable budget.
The trustees can welcome people and guide them through the areas that have been opened for use.
***
The trustees discussed the presentation:
At the April 21 meeting, the weekend chosen was June 25-26. Marie had a conflict on the 25 but could be here on June 26. Mark and Vic were free on both dates. Jason said he was free on June 26.
At the May 5 meeting, the committee asked for the June 26 date so that Marie could attend. Jason now said he had two conflicts on that date.
Mark reviewed the calendar and determined that the next open date was July 10 (the committee had already stated a preference for a Sunday event).
Vic: The building is for the community because we have no large gathering place and this would be a good step in the right direction to get people into the building and get it being used.
Jason: I love going to potlucks. My concern is that I mentioned catering and refreshment [options] [because] when something is a potluck, that means bringing something.
I am going to come and take a tour. I as a resident, [if I ] am reading that in the paper, I only want to take a tour. I am not quite for the potluck. (Blogger's note: FYI, I take a form of shorthand called Speedwriting. Sometimes, several days after taking the notes, I'm not quite sure of a certain word. "Quite" in Jason's remark is an example. There have been others, in everyone's remarks. I make sure that the general thrust of any speaker's remarks is accurate, regardless.)
At this point, the other members of the committee added their views:
Carol Srajer: If you advertise it as an option, this is a historical building. It is part of our heritage and history. For many people, it is like an anchor. Part of celebration historically is that people have shared potluck.
If you present that as an option, just to come and tour the building, that is fine. If you juist want to tour the building, that is fine.
Jason: I would make sure in the advertisement that this is clear.
Carol Srajer: We, our kids, and our grandkids went there. This is part of our history, and for many, spending the afternoon [there] is an awesome thing.
Dave Pollard: We have discussed this a couple of times at different meetings that people should not feel pressured. We have also discussed that people of the committee and volunteers will be bringing food and can take up the slack
. We have discussed this and that we are taking measures to take care of the ebb and flow.
Terri Vechery: In regard to advertising and publicity, there will be a full blown story in the Record Courier. Would the trustees want to handle this? I will write something for the Community Journal, which would not cost anything. Now that we have set this, we need to know what you want to do. Note: Terri also mentioned church bulletins.
Carole Pollard: We have publicity that is being donated, and the advertising is something that the trustees would do for any open house, even without a potluck (Note: I also inquired about the hours.)
Mark Hall: One p.m. is a good start time. Churches let out around noon. For evening services, those begin about 7, so I am thinking about [the ending time being] 6 p. m.
Jason waffled about the time.
Vic: One to 6 is fine with me.
Blogger's Note: Usually I keep Public Comment as a separate post, but many of this evening's remarks are part and parcel of the Open House/potluck discussion.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: I think a dinner for the public is nice, but I wonder if the Health Department needs to inspect anything.
Mark: I don't know anything about that.
John Festa: Would you ask them? You are serving food to the public. I would imagine that this would be a health issue.
Mark: I can give them a call.
John Festa: They would come and inspect the facility[?].
Vic: They are going to have to inspect it anyhow for the school to be open.
John Festa: What would they inspect for, just the kitchen?
Vic: They will test the water. We have talked to the plumber about what we have to do in [the kitchen area.]
John Festa: I don't know--I am just asking.
Vic: They have already inspected some of it.
Carol Srajer: Addressed concerns about eating or the facility: It is no different than when the Civic Center is rented and there are potlucks there. It would be no different. Whatever is acceptable there would be acceptable in the school. That should alleviate some issues. I just better quit [speaking] now.
Vic: We have followed up on everything we have had to do, on all permits. We have passed every inspection to this point.
Roger Hurd, Center Road: When we started our free community meal at the church seven years ago, it was my duty to contact the Health Department to get their OK. They said there was no OK to give or not to give: check with your insurer. We cook the food off site and bring it.
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: Jason, your League of Women Voters [2009] campaign material says that you wanted to have community dinners. The Open House Committee is handing you an opportunity to have a community dinner, but you are noticeably reluctant to do that. What happened between then and now?
Jason: I'm not going to answer that. Note: Boldface intentional.
Carole: The voters and taxpayers will take note of that.
Blogger's note: I know this is a long post, but it all revolves around the single issue of the open house and how it is handled. Beyond that, this event identifies clearly (in my opinion) the people who value the school building and appreciate what the trustees have done in purchasing it for the township and those who are violently opposed to it and who clearly want to block it or make it fail.
At the April 21 meeting, three options had been offered, each trustee leaning towards a different one: potluck, dessert/snack, or catered event.
The committee presented its goals:
A sense of community for all participants
Simplicity for the organizers
Variety and widest appeal for the participants
Widest inclusion of residents
The right amount of food
Minimum cost all around
The only option that satisfies all of those goals is the potluck.
The dessert/snack and catered options do not foster enough sense of community, but make people into guests and outsiders. Both are expensive and both raise problems about either too much or too little food.
The potluck option satisfies all criteria, especially community. When people bring real food to share with others, it is their event.
Cost of the potluck does not have to be more than for a regular meal at home for each family; quantity is automatically adjusted; and variety far exceeds anything that could be catered within any reasonable budget.
The trustees can welcome people and guide them through the areas that have been opened for use.
***
The trustees discussed the presentation:
At the April 21 meeting, the weekend chosen was June 25-26. Marie had a conflict on the 25 but could be here on June 26. Mark and Vic were free on both dates. Jason said he was free on June 26.
At the May 5 meeting, the committee asked for the June 26 date so that Marie could attend. Jason now said he had two conflicts on that date.
Mark reviewed the calendar and determined that the next open date was July 10 (the committee had already stated a preference for a Sunday event).
Vic: The building is for the community because we have no large gathering place and this would be a good step in the right direction to get people into the building and get it being used.
Jason: I love going to potlucks. My concern is that I mentioned catering and refreshment [options] [because] when something is a potluck, that means bringing something.
I am going to come and take a tour. I as a resident, [if I ] am reading that in the paper, I only want to take a tour. I am not quite for the potluck. (Blogger's note: FYI, I take a form of shorthand called Speedwriting. Sometimes, several days after taking the notes, I'm not quite sure of a certain word. "Quite" in Jason's remark is an example. There have been others, in everyone's remarks. I make sure that the general thrust of any speaker's remarks is accurate, regardless.)
At this point, the other members of the committee added their views:
Carol Srajer: If you advertise it as an option, this is a historical building. It is part of our heritage and history. For many people, it is like an anchor. Part of celebration historically is that people have shared potluck.
If you present that as an option, just to come and tour the building, that is fine. If you juist want to tour the building, that is fine.
Jason: I would make sure in the advertisement that this is clear.
Carol Srajer: We, our kids, and our grandkids went there. This is part of our history, and for many, spending the afternoon [there] is an awesome thing.
Dave Pollard: We have discussed this a couple of times at different meetings that people should not feel pressured. We have also discussed that people of the committee and volunteers will be bringing food and can take up the slack
. We have discussed this and that we are taking measures to take care of the ebb and flow.
Terri Vechery: In regard to advertising and publicity, there will be a full blown story in the Record Courier. Would the trustees want to handle this? I will write something for the Community Journal, which would not cost anything. Now that we have set this, we need to know what you want to do. Note: Terri also mentioned church bulletins.
Carole Pollard: We have publicity that is being donated, and the advertising is something that the trustees would do for any open house, even without a potluck (Note: I also inquired about the hours.)
Mark Hall: One p.m. is a good start time. Churches let out around noon. For evening services, those begin about 7, so I am thinking about [the ending time being] 6 p. m.
Jason waffled about the time.
Vic: One to 6 is fine with me.
Blogger's Note: Usually I keep Public Comment as a separate post, but many of this evening's remarks are part and parcel of the Open House/potluck discussion.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road: I think a dinner for the public is nice, but I wonder if the Health Department needs to inspect anything.
Mark: I don't know anything about that.
John Festa: Would you ask them? You are serving food to the public. I would imagine that this would be a health issue.
Mark: I can give them a call.
John Festa: They would come and inspect the facility[?].
Vic: They are going to have to inspect it anyhow for the school to be open.
John Festa: What would they inspect for, just the kitchen?
Vic: They will test the water. We have talked to the plumber about what we have to do in [the kitchen area.]
John Festa: I don't know--I am just asking.
Vic: They have already inspected some of it.
Carol Srajer: Addressed concerns about eating or the facility: It is no different than when the Civic Center is rented and there are potlucks there. It would be no different. Whatever is acceptable there would be acceptable in the school. That should alleviate some issues. I just better quit [speaking] now.
Vic: We have followed up on everything we have had to do, on all permits. We have passed every inspection to this point.
Roger Hurd, Center Road: When we started our free community meal at the church seven years ago, it was my duty to contact the Health Department to get their OK. They said there was no OK to give or not to give: check with your insurer. We cook the food off site and bring it.
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: Jason, your League of Women Voters [2009] campaign material says that you wanted to have community dinners. The Open House Committee is handing you an opportunity to have a community dinner, but you are noticeably reluctant to do that. What happened between then and now?
Jason: I'm not going to answer that. Note: Boldface intentional.
Carole: The voters and taxpayers will take note of that.
Blogger's note: I know this is a long post, but it all revolves around the single issue of the open house and how it is handled. Beyond that, this event identifies clearly (in my opinion) the people who value the school building and appreciate what the trustees have done in purchasing it for the township and those who are violently opposed to it and who clearly want to block it or make it fail.
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Limerick, May 1
Hawks are courting; geese are paired.
There's a softness to the air.
We see the cheery daffodils
And new green grass upon the hills.
It's springtime in Beautiful Ohio!
There's a softness to the air.
We see the cheery daffodils
And new green grass upon the hills.
It's springtime in Beautiful Ohio!
Sunday, May 1, 2011
Public Comment, 4/21/11
Only a few people spoke during Public Comment at this meeting: Carole Pollard, Dawn Pechman, Dave Pollard.
In my opinion, the most important remarks during this meeting's Public Comment came from Dave and concern the Center school. I intend to revisit them at a later date with more information and editorial comment, but for now, they are at the end of this post.
Opening note: My remarks were in regard to Jason's intention to have both the cemetery and the ball field fertilized and sprayed. They are detailed partly because of the information in them and partly to make sure that they are accurately recorded in at least one place.
And remember how in a previous public comment I made a remark about how disjointed we all can sound, and that a transcript in the minutes would demonstrate that? Well, I am not immune when speaking more or less off the cuff. Read on, if you dare. :-))
Carole Pollard: There are a couple of things about the weeding and feeding and fertilizing. I had a friend check a couple of things about the cemetery. There is at least one that is on the National Register of Historic Places, and they have very stringent requirements and prohibitions about fertilizer.
Acids destroy limestone and sandstone, and alkalines affect granite. I think that the definition of acid rain is water on something that can turn into a solvent.
I am very skeptical about any manufacturer that says something is safe, and I am skeptical about the EPA, just every bit as skeptical. If you have some sort of powder on stones it will turn into something that can etch the stone. I wonder if there are ways of fertilizing that do not involve chemicals. Green is all the rage, and there ought to be some way of doing that.
I also am extremely skeptical about there being no effects from fertilizing on playing fields and lawns. "No immediate effects" are one thing. Long term effects are something else and by then everyone is gone who set things in motion. Last night I happened [into a broadcast] -- now, this was about plastics, but the issue was about chemical loads on everybody in the world. There was a PBS program about plastics. They are not inert--not at all.
Plastics, for example, mimic some of the hormones, and I am not going to go into the horrifying things [that can happen] but a few things would make men a bit uncomfortable because there are some things that men value very greatly that are affected by those plasticizers.
What I heard this afternoon [on a radio broadcast] is that women who live near farms that have a lot of spraying done, when those women have children, they [researchers] have been testing the pesticide residues in [their] systems.
The higher the metabolite [the residue after the body deals with the chemicals] reading, the more likely the child is to have lower IQ by the age of 7 and it does not take much to make a big difference developmentally.
The other thing about chemicals is that we don't have standards for kids. Everybody from about 7 to 15 or 16 is going to be on those fields. Kids--stuff is going to get in their eyes and mouths and developmental stages for children switch on at various times, and what I heard about this on another program is that there are problems that can occur at only one time in a kid's develpment, depending on the dosage and where he is in the development.
If some bodily systems are sort of scheduled to develop at a certain time, if there is a chemical assault at that time, those systems are not going to develop as well. Apparently it takes only a tiny, tiny amount, especially of the endocrine disruptors, to make long lasting differences and problems with chemicals.
Everyone knows that ADHD is on the rise, and everyone knows that autism is almost an epidemic, and nobody has figured it out. The suspicion is that it is environmental. We probably don't need to add to it.
The woman who is sort of god on this is Theo Colburn, and she has researched especially the endocrine disruptors. She has a website.
Jason: I think what you have outlined is a lot of worst case scenarios--just today, reading this letter [from Todd Monroe about the safety of the chemicals and their application], if there was that much concern he [Todd] would not be [doing this]. I think we would hear more [about problems].
Carole: If it's your kid, it's serious.
Dawn Pechman: What time can I pick up copies of the [corrected and approved] minutes tomorrow?
Marie: I will be out of the office until Tuesday.
Dawn: How can I get copies of the minutes [that were] approved tonight?
Marie: I don't see how you can.
Dawn: What time Tuesday?
Blogger's note: Other people have standing orders (and have paid for them in advance) to receive the minutes by mail. I believe that they received theirs on Monday. I wonder if driving to Marie's on Tuesday was less expensive than an envelope and a stamp.
Dawn: I would like to mention about the [fertilizer] granules. One of the things that I have had a lot of experience with is pets and kids with lawn care. It has been changed so much that it is not the [same] thing. I do think it would be very good to attend to it and that you make a decision about it.
I would like to ask you again to consider the technology of a computer for the township.
Dave Pollard: I am only going to touch briefly on this. We have been told for years that farm chemicals are safe if you use them as directed on the label. There is a whole cottage industry of lawyers now that look for problems that people have because of drugs and chemicals. I am very skeptical of manufacturers' claims. Paraquat and malathion would kill you in a minute.
Also [to Jason], a few months ago, you had mentioned that you would sell the school if the price were right.
Note: Jason confirmed that statement.
Dave: At the current values and rates, if it were sold and in private hands, it would go on the tax roles and would generate for the township $600 a year, or $50 a month [in property taxes]. The township would probably [also] give up its share of the mineral rights That would be money lost.
Note: This figure came from Janet Esposito.
Any room in that building would rent for more than $50 a month.
[If the school were sold], we would have to replace the building and the property and probably also the roof [of a new building] in 10 years.
Note: The source of this opinion is the experience of the Board of Education with one of the new Bowen Road buildings: the standing seam roof had problems in less than ten years. We learned this in one of the "forums" in which a new school levy was being pitched. There was also a problem with windows. For one of those (roof or windows), the company that had done the work was no longer in business, so the school had no recourse.
Dave: Fifty dollars a month in taxes does not amount to much at all. There are some uses that could generate some profit. That was what I have tonight. I think it would be a tremendous loss to the township.
Note: I did not record this in my shorthand notes, but Dave's phrase, "If the price was right," was one which Jason had used when he made the comment several months ago. Dave asked Jason what the right price would be, since a person could be reasonably expected to have a figure in mind when considering selling something. Jason's response was that (I think I remember this correctly) he had not heard a price yet--did not have one in mind.
In my opinion, the most important remarks during this meeting's Public Comment came from Dave and concern the Center school. I intend to revisit them at a later date with more information and editorial comment, but for now, they are at the end of this post.
Opening note: My remarks were in regard to Jason's intention to have both the cemetery and the ball field fertilized and sprayed. They are detailed partly because of the information in them and partly to make sure that they are accurately recorded in at least one place.
And remember how in a previous public comment I made a remark about how disjointed we all can sound, and that a transcript in the minutes would demonstrate that? Well, I am not immune when speaking more or less off the cuff. Read on, if you dare. :-))
Carole Pollard: There are a couple of things about the weeding and feeding and fertilizing. I had a friend check a couple of things about the cemetery. There is at least one that is on the National Register of Historic Places, and they have very stringent requirements and prohibitions about fertilizer.
Acids destroy limestone and sandstone, and alkalines affect granite. I think that the definition of acid rain is water on something that can turn into a solvent.
I am very skeptical about any manufacturer that says something is safe, and I am skeptical about the EPA, just every bit as skeptical. If you have some sort of powder on stones it will turn into something that can etch the stone. I wonder if there are ways of fertilizing that do not involve chemicals. Green is all the rage, and there ought to be some way of doing that.
I also am extremely skeptical about there being no effects from fertilizing on playing fields and lawns. "No immediate effects" are one thing. Long term effects are something else and by then everyone is gone who set things in motion. Last night I happened [into a broadcast] -- now, this was about plastics, but the issue was about chemical loads on everybody in the world. There was a PBS program about plastics. They are not inert--not at all.
Plastics, for example, mimic some of the hormones, and I am not going to go into the horrifying things [that can happen] but a few things would make men a bit uncomfortable because there are some things that men value very greatly that are affected by those plasticizers.
What I heard this afternoon [on a radio broadcast] is that women who live near farms that have a lot of spraying done, when those women have children, they [researchers] have been testing the pesticide residues in [their] systems.
The higher the metabolite [the residue after the body deals with the chemicals] reading, the more likely the child is to have lower IQ by the age of 7 and it does not take much to make a big difference developmentally.
The other thing about chemicals is that we don't have standards for kids. Everybody from about 7 to 15 or 16 is going to be on those fields. Kids--stuff is going to get in their eyes and mouths and developmental stages for children switch on at various times, and what I heard about this on another program is that there are problems that can occur at only one time in a kid's develpment, depending on the dosage and where he is in the development.
If some bodily systems are sort of scheduled to develop at a certain time, if there is a chemical assault at that time, those systems are not going to develop as well. Apparently it takes only a tiny, tiny amount, especially of the endocrine disruptors, to make long lasting differences and problems with chemicals.
Everyone knows that ADHD is on the rise, and everyone knows that autism is almost an epidemic, and nobody has figured it out. The suspicion is that it is environmental. We probably don't need to add to it.
The woman who is sort of god on this is Theo Colburn, and she has researched especially the endocrine disruptors. She has a website.
Jason: I think what you have outlined is a lot of worst case scenarios--just today, reading this letter [from Todd Monroe about the safety of the chemicals and their application], if there was that much concern he [Todd] would not be [doing this]. I think we would hear more [about problems].
Carole: If it's your kid, it's serious.
Dawn Pechman: What time can I pick up copies of the [corrected and approved] minutes tomorrow?
Marie: I will be out of the office until Tuesday.
Dawn: How can I get copies of the minutes [that were] approved tonight?
Marie: I don't see how you can.
Dawn: What time Tuesday?
Blogger's note: Other people have standing orders (and have paid for them in advance) to receive the minutes by mail. I believe that they received theirs on Monday. I wonder if driving to Marie's on Tuesday was less expensive than an envelope and a stamp.
Dawn: I would like to mention about the [fertilizer] granules. One of the things that I have had a lot of experience with is pets and kids with lawn care. It has been changed so much that it is not the [same] thing. I do think it would be very good to attend to it and that you make a decision about it.
I would like to ask you again to consider the technology of a computer for the township.
Dave Pollard: I am only going to touch briefly on this. We have been told for years that farm chemicals are safe if you use them as directed on the label. There is a whole cottage industry of lawyers now that look for problems that people have because of drugs and chemicals. I am very skeptical of manufacturers' claims. Paraquat and malathion would kill you in a minute.
Also [to Jason], a few months ago, you had mentioned that you would sell the school if the price were right.
Note: Jason confirmed that statement.
Dave: At the current values and rates, if it were sold and in private hands, it would go on the tax roles and would generate for the township $600 a year, or $50 a month [in property taxes]. The township would probably [also] give up its share of the mineral rights That would be money lost.
Note: This figure came from Janet Esposito.
Any room in that building would rent for more than $50 a month.
[If the school were sold], we would have to replace the building and the property and probably also the roof [of a new building] in 10 years.
Note: The source of this opinion is the experience of the Board of Education with one of the new Bowen Road buildings: the standing seam roof had problems in less than ten years. We learned this in one of the "forums" in which a new school levy was being pitched. There was also a problem with windows. For one of those (roof or windows), the company that had done the work was no longer in business, so the school had no recourse.
Dave: Fifty dollars a month in taxes does not amount to much at all. There are some uses that could generate some profit. That was what I have tonight. I think it would be a tremendous loss to the township.
Note: I did not record this in my shorthand notes, but Dave's phrase, "If the price was right," was one which Jason had used when he made the comment several months ago. Dave asked Jason what the right price would be, since a person could be reasonably expected to have a figure in mind when considering selling something. Jason's response was that (I think I remember this correctly) he had not heard a price yet--did not have one in mind.
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