Public Comment, 3-21-13: The School: Questions, Good Info

Foreword:  Before wrapping up the report on this meeting, here is something I ran across recently.  To me, it fits very well into this time of year, which has meant reflection and renewal far, far back in human history.

"I am what my heart chooses."

Public Comment began at 9:00.

Tom Monroe, Wayne Road.  I am a newcomer--only 14 years in the township and was not born here and suppose I am an outsider because of that.  I never went to the school, but grew up in Lakewood.  This is the longest I have ever lived in a house.  I am hearing about a levy and if it is passed funds will be available.  If it is not passed, what is the plan for the building?

Jason:  You raised a good point.  At the last meeting, we turned out a spec sheet to contractors to get ideas about the cost to renovate the first floor of the building.  Nothing crazy.

We got those back and the township has owned the building since 2004 and there has been an attempt to piecemeal things together because we don't have a half million or a million dollars to renovate it.  It is a township/community building.  [Blogger:  A whole estimate has not been given; the numbers above are simply for the sake of conversation.]

There is such angst on both sides--get in, no, tear it down.  My job as a trustee is to hear the public and make the best decision.  I don't make decisions for myself but for my constituents.  Because of the angst and animosity on both sides, how do you make a decision with less than $20,000 for the school?

[Blogger:  All through last year, the school fund in the budget had $30,000 in it.  At the beginning of the year, everything goes back to zero and funds are reallocated.  Remember that $60,000 was set aside for a new piece of equipment  with very little debate about whether it was affordable.  Money was moved from other funds for that.]

Jason, continuing:  My thoughts were that this is the only way I can see.  The trustees have an obligation to put forth a solid plan  [Blogger:  which has been hanging fire for Jason's whole term] -- but we can not just say that we have an empty building, here is what  to do.

So my thought was to get the west room renovated and show the township that we are working on it.  Basically, if you walk into the building now, it looks like it did when I went there in the 90's.  As a trustee, I can not turn it over to the public and say that it looks just like it did when I went there.

So I want to take it to the voters.  Does that answer your question?

Ellen Monroe:  I just want again to announce the open Tuesdays in the school building cafeteria.  There have been about 30 people each day with a potluck lunch.  We are going to offer tours for the next four times so people can see the 1914 building.  A couple are bringing a sound system for dinner music for dancing.

We want for people to see what the building is like.

Matt Parsons:  When you originally bought the building in 2004 was there a reason why it was not put before the voters?

Vic:  We sat down with the architect about the cost of a feasibility  study.  One proposal was to put a bond issue on the ballot and the trustees decided not to do that because we bought  it through the company named on the lease purchase agreement.

 [Blogger:  The trustees at the time decided not to put up a ballot issue about the school because they did not want to burden the residents, but thought that it would be possible to purchase the building and make it useful without that.  In light of what happened to the economy in 2008, that was a choice that avoided hardship for the people of the township.]

One of the biggest hangups at the time was the building department.  There was a different director who  wanted the whole building finished before we could use it at all.  We hired an architect and did not get the final blue prints until June 2006.

[Blogger:  As I understand it, there was an additional long delay in getting permission to do things because the State had no proof that the building had ever been used as a school.  Never mind 90 years' worth of photographs of the kids attending classes there--there was no paper work.  And never mind that a great deal was different in 1914 than now about bureaucratic requirements.]

Matt:  Is there any truth that the school could have been bought for $1.00?

Vic:  No.  We went back and forth about that for a year.  When the school had their assessmen done, they could not sell the buildings for less than 80% of the appraised price.  Shalersville and Mantua Township bought their buildings first, because if you figure it out, we got it for less than 80%.  

Matt asked why the interest rate is a variable rate.

Vic:  That is what it was at that time.

Carole Pollard, Allyn Road:  `The animosity is not new--it is crowding 70 years old and is focused on the school.  It has been focused on other things.  The elephant is out of the refrigerator.

There are three options for the school.  One is to sell it, which is the equivalent of eating your seed corn, Jason, because then you have lost the building and the land and everything is gone.  I am not sure whether I have heard rumors or facts and some of what we have heard may be fishing expeditions to see who is talking to whom.
 I have heard that someone in the township has a buyer for the building.  If that is true, given who the broker is, the township can expect to take a real beating on cost.

Jason:  That is interesting because I have not heard that.  If you have a name please pass it along.

CP:  Later.  Well, Jason, I am not surprised because I think you are being kept in a bubble so you can continue to be seen as you are being seen.  To be honest, I think that is one of the things that is being done.  I think there is a vested interest in keeping you separate.

Jason:  Are we going to talk about township business?

CP:  Yes.  I am.  You are part of township business and how you are dealt with is part of township business.

The second option is to tear it down. It is easy to say that.  The costs of that are enormous.  The costs are huge and other things have to be done.  Hazardous materials inspections have to be conducted, I believe.  Disposal costs for those are three times as much as for disposal in a regular landfill.  Tying into the sewer system will cost $25,000 to $30,000 if there are no problems, and then there are fees month by month by month.
 There are a lot of ways in which having the building as it is and not tearing it down is the most economical.  A new building to commercial specifications can be expect to last maybe 50 years.  Depending on size, it could cost $2,000,000 and then in 50 years it's gone.  The comment has been made, "So we tear it down and rebuild."
Where is the money coming from?  You have all the demolition costs and then the cost of new construction.

The third thing is to do as you have begun to do and get us into the building.  We have had quite a bit of time between when we thought someone would begin working on that, having promised it, and moving forward slowly.
 There has been talk about "If you're going to do it, do it right" and as soon as the $8,000-$9,000 was mentioned, there were mutterings about "Jesus Christ."


CP, continuing:  I heard it.  I am not making that up.  I can hear a sock drop on a carpeted floor.  That is what I heard.

If you will do some research so you have facts and figures and have a firm floor to stand on, you will not be buffeted by everyone's opinions and your life will be easier.  You can make an informed, intelligent decision.  I appreciate that you listen to people.  But unless you have a rudder and a compass, you are twisting in the wind and you make yourself vulnerable to all the things that keep you up at night. 

[Note:  As I have made clear before, to include my remarks in the blog, I must listen to a recording.  When I speak to the trustees, I focus on them to the exclusion of everything else.  The recording made it clear that all the while I was speaking, someone was rapping something.  Usually, I have been told, it is coughing.  The noise stopped as soon as I was done, and there was no interference when Steve Zielinsky (sp?) spoke.

Dan Cozzens: Nothing.

Steve Zielinsky:  I just wanted to thank Frank Horack for his presentation and hopefully this project gets moving forward fast.

Roger Hurd:  Nothing.

Dave Pollard:  Jason, this is the first time that I have actually heard you tell us where you personally stand on this--that we need to get into the building and need to start using it.  You hinted at it the last meeting by using the term "vested interest."  But then you have been turning around between all opinions.  I think you did a masterful job of telling two stories at once at the last meeting.  I am glad to see that you want us in there.
 You always use the term "piecemeal" about the school but "stages" or "phases" when you talk about this building.  This building looks the same as it did when I was in Cub Scouts.

You talk about not doing it piecemeal,  but that is what you want to do with the asbestos removal.  At the last meeting Vic asked about the rest of the asbestos.  That has been a bugaboo, and John Festa has been nervous as a cat about that.  But at the last  meeting you said you did not want to remove the asbestos in the basement, which could be rented out to bring in money and offset some of the cost of the utilities, which is always being brought up.

You say you don't want to piecemeal but you are willing to do piecemeal on the asbestos removal. At the last meeting it began to sound as if you were not too concerned about the asbestos in the main hallway.  This is the first time I have heard you say where you personally stand.

[Note:  While Dave was speaking, there were all kinds of noise from behind me in the southwest corner of the room:  coughing, scuffling of feet, the kind of shifting and restlessness that I first encountered with my academically challenged eighth-grade students.]      
 
 

3-21-13: A Step for the Center school building

This was still under old business.

Jason to Vic:  The Center school.
Vic:  At the last meeting we had quite a bit of discussion about working in the west room.  I have talked to Cal Brant and Ronnie Stamm to get an estimate of what it would take for that room.  All three bids did not break it down room by room.

Step one would be clean up.  In June a letter was faxed to us regarding that office.  [The intended office of the fiscal officer.]  Randy Roberts (Portage Co. Building Department head) said we do not need a change of occupancy.  All we need is a $50 permit just for putting up the wall, which has no electricity in it.  It is a permit to work in the building.  [Blogger:  The wall is to separate records storage from the rest of the office and will be on the north end of the room.]

Vic, continuing:  As I followed through on it it states that  it refers to various drawings.  [Blogger:  I do not know for sure what the "it" refers to.]  Randy Roberts said they only need basic information--where the door is, which way it swings, and the fittings on it.

I would like to go ahead and proceed with that--get the drawings.  I will probably have to talk with you,  Jason, about the spec sheet.  We need specifics.  I want to proceed with the $50 permit.  Do we need a motion?

Jason:  I don't think so.

Vic:  That is our first step.  We had discussion on the tile floor and the mastic.  I called HEPA about the quote given in September.  I wanted to see about removing the tile and mastic in the hall because his quote included the pipe in the basement.  He will hold his price for the tile and mastic.

I talked with Ronnie Stamm and Cal Brant to see if they can come up with an idea for the kind of money to do it.  I will have to sit down with both of them.  They came up with $8,000 to $9,000.  I will have to see if we can hold the price down working with volunteers.
{Blogger:  When Vic gave the price, a voice behind me muttered audibly, "Jesus Christ."  The comment came from the same corner of the room as exhortations at a previous meeting to "Do it right."]

Vic, continuing:  The quote from Bob Gatto [for light fixtures] is from August and was based on a certain quantity, but he will hold his price for 8-9 fixtures.

You [to Jason] asked if I would oversee it.  I will need some clarification from the two of you.  I think we should move forward and the first thing would be the permit and the next thing is to remove that tile.  That way it is out of there and the floor would be clean.

 I talked to Ronnie Stamm about his disclaimer about paperwork for the area.  The environmental report should be fine for him to look at but if the tile and glue is removed he is OK.  All three quotes are merely asking to know that the materials have been removed.  Everybody is willing to maintain their prices for us. 

[Blogger:  At a previous meeting--maybe the one for 3-7-13--John Festa read through a whole list of contractors' disclaimers as if each was refusing to do any work in the building.  The bold-faced sentence above addresses that objection.]

Jason:  I would just say, speaking only for myself, that if we move forward it will show the residents that we really do need this building.  I think we need to get the room stabilized and get the documents in there as a permanent location and get an office in there that Marie can be satisfied with.  It is handy to have the copy room there.  The guys go there to copy things.  It is handy to have a centralized place to do business.  We will see value right away at small cost.
[Blogger:  I honestly do not understand why this was not obvious three years ago on a walk through to "try on" the building's use.  However, it has apparently become clear, for which many people will be glad.  Certainly Marie is.]

Vic:  He can get on to removing the tile and mastic in two weeks.

Jason:  This is just the west room?

Vic:  The west room and the main hallway.

Jason:  I would like to see the cost before I can personally approve it and would like to see it by next week [meeting?].

Vic:  That is why I want to see the spec sheet.  Cal Brant did not actually get a walk through and that is why his quote was stated the way it was.  And I need some clarification on it.

Jason:  Why not move forward with the permit and if you have figures for us and we stay within that range . . . .
Vic:  There are some areas I want to follow up on.  Lead paint in commercial areas is very vague. [The word Vic actually used was "gray."]  All references to lead are to home owners and children.  I would like to get some sketches and the permit and proceed.
Do you want to approve the money for the mastic?

Jason agreed.

Vic:  Let me get the actual quote.  Then:  Permit, $50 plus 3%; the work is termed minor repair.
Tile, $1170 plus $765 to remove the mastic.  Total:  $1935.  [The quote is from HEPA Environmental Services.]
Jason:  If they hold those prices . . . .

Vic:  I would like to make a motion to hire HEPA to remove the main floor hallway tile and mastic, not to exceed $2.000.  
Jason:  Second.

Vote:  John Festa:  Not ready to accept it right now.  Abstain.
Jason:  Yes.
Vic:  Yes. 

Town Hall Updates

John Festa:  Nothing yet.  Still working on it.  I should have something next time.

Vic:  At the last meeting I said I had a phone number.  This is a business from Lakewood--Marco Zoek.
I explained about the problem with the pain on the Town Hall.  He asked a bunch of questions and basically described our building.

How old is the paint?    Applied 2000-2001.
Reply:  8 years out of latex is pretty good.

Vic:  It is peeling the old paint right to the wood.

MZ  :  Do you have a crawl space?  A:  Dirt.
Q:  Is it under the whole building?  A:  No, half.

Vic:  I asked him what he is certified in.  He asked all kinds of questions.  [Blogger:  Mr. Zoek is apparently certified in everything relevant to our building.]  I asked what he would charge for an evaluation.  It would take 5 hours and cost $395.  Writing the report would come to between $100 and $150.  He would want to be in the attic and basement to take moisture readings.

Jason:  What does he think he will be able to provide us?
Vic:  To make recommendations about what is causing the problem.  

Jason:  What is his expertise?

Vic:  He is certified for all kinds of things:  Moisture control.  Lead paint.  Asbestos.  HVAC consultant.
Vic gave Jason and John Festa the number.

Jason asked if there was any other old business.

John Festa:  Kelly from Frank Gates (about Workers Comp) can not make it on the 15th.  The revised date is May 2.  She would like to receive any questions in advance.  I myself asked her to give us some pointers on what we have going here for Workers Comp.   Let me know a couple of weeks before then and she will bring that information to the meeting with her.  She will be here at 7:30.   

Fact Checker: About the Land Bank

This short post is just to pull together some information about the Land Bank/Moving Ohio Forward program to remove (for want of a better word) blighted properties.  This has been a topic in a number of trustees meetings.  The information comes from a conversation with Todd Peetz, Portage County Regional Planning and is just a brief overview of the program.  There may be some details missing, if I did not think to ask the right questions.

The Land Bank program to remove unsafe, unsanitary, uninhabitable vacant houses allows one per township.  A few townships have opted out, and some owners have demolished designated houses themselves.  Thus, it may be possible to tear down more than one house in a township.

The funding is $500,000, so it is possible to do 45-50 houses county-wide.  Properties that are being foreclosed upon or part of a bankruptcy proceeding are not eligible.

The township must do a title/lien search, which costs $300 each, and notify owners and lienholders.  The Health Department, Zoning, and Fire Department must all inspect the property before it can be designated for demolition.  A lien for the cost of the demolitiion is put upon the property, and in case the property is sold, the lien goes to the seller.

Some owners with designated properties have torn down the buildings themselves.   Demolition does not wipe out mortgages or liens.

The request to Mantua Township Trustees to remove the 13 Robin Park properties from the list (see the first post for the March 21 Trustees meeting) was significant.  At $300 per property, that would have represented a significant expense.  The townships with such properties that are sold after demolition will be reimbursed out of the sale proceeds, but there is no certain time when that might happen, of course.

3-21-13: Trustees' Reports & New Business

Jason:  An Aurora Meadows/Sewer Project update.  Seventy-two are tied in out of eighty-eight.  Two are still without permits, and one does not appear to be getting one.  Another is lobbying [?]  the commissioners to tie in at the reduced rate.  Apparently that is excellent progress.  [Blogger:  If I remember correctly, there was a deadline for tying into the lines at a very good rate.  After that, the cost would be pretty attention-getting.]

The walk-through for the lawn bids was conducted on March 20.  Sealed bids will be opened at the next regular meeting (April 4).

Anything else is under Old Business.

John Festa:   I have one thing.  I still want to know about the items on the other side of the garage--the pipe and everything.  To Vic and Marie:  Is that part of our inventory?

Vic:  We have not put the culvert pipe on [the inventory].

John Festa:  Are we about ready to finish up on the inventory?

Vic:  I gave that to you at the last meeting.  The only thing is the metal detector.  Jim Aldrich said he wanted to keep that.  To Brian:  If you can find the book on that, maybe Jim can take a look at it
.
Continuing:  At the last meeting I was asked about the flags and I got information on them.  I have not been able to copy much.  We have always purchased flags from the American Legion and use about two per season.  They do not last long.  They are printed flags.

The flag store in Newbury recommended nylon for $26.95.  They have cotton ones also.  All have been made in the U.S. and are 3' x 5'.  To Marie:  I think we bought 30 of them last year.

Continuing:  Also, [with] a little bit of research, it looks like a cotton flag  made in the U.S. costs about $9.00.  A nylon one would be about $24.00.  To Brian:  It would take 14 flags for the poles we have?

Jason:  I would say whatever you think if they are the same quality.

John Festa:  Do we get a couple of years [from a flag]?

Vic:  The trouble is the traffic next to the road; flags get whipped by the traffic.

Larry Leitzow volunteered that his flag is three years old and is nylon. 
Tom Monroe said that his nylon flag has been up for two years.
[Blogger:  Neither of their flags is subjected to the turbulence of the ones the township has lined up along the roads.]

Vic:  The truck traffic really whips them.  I made an adapter for the pole so the flag would spin instead of wrap up.

Brian Tayerle:  All of the flagpoles are ready to go with the Chinese flags.  Are we going to run them?
John Festa asked how many.  Answer:  13-14 .  They are brand new but not on the poles yet.  They are mostly printed, but for some the stars are sewn on.

More discussion on the flags followed.

Vic:  The other thing is the clutch on the tractor.  Dave Pollard mentioned a place that does Kevlar relining.  I researched it; for ours they do not stock the clutch.  It would have to be removed and taken to the place.  We had an estimate of $200 plus.  No one is going to want to split the case, take the clutch to this other business, and wait to get it back.  They also do brake linings out of Kevlar.

Vic, continuing:   I also called about spring cleanup.  One company could not make it on May 4.  Another company that we have been using has increased its prices quite a bit.  They put a tonnage limit on the boxes of 3 tons and 4 tons.  If we could stay under that, OK,  but for each ton over that it is another $50.00.  A four-ton limit equals $550 per box. They can do it on May 4.  To pick up an empty is $85.00.

 R & R Sanitation quoted $575 for a 40-yard  container and a $75.00 charge for an empty.

Universal could not do it on the 4th; fee  is $675 per rolloff.

Republic does not have a date on the paperwork that she could do it..  A 40-yard container would cost $368.  Anything over 5 tons is $32.00 per ton, and empties are $50.00. 

We should probably make a decision so we can lock it in.
Jason thought it should be Republic.   
Vic:  C & B is available on May 4 for the scrap, and they have paid us very good for the scrap in the past.
Jason:  Let's make a motion.
Vic:  I would like to go with C & D Scrap and Republic for the trash for our Spring Cleanup day on May 4.
Jason:  Second; unanimous.

 Vic, continuing:  I have packets from Mickey Marozzi for Round 28.   They want it in by May 28.  I have not heard back about the local small government.  I finally got to Linda Balog.  We did not make the cut.  They only took the top five, with two alternates.  They took the top seven, and we were #8.  But last year we did get Small Governments and Scott Miller said it was the first time he had every heard of anyone in Portage County getting something through Small Government.

Jason:  To be very honest, we can free that money up because we had already appropriated it for Round 27.
Marie:  Just our local share. 

Jason:  We could be able to spend that money for chip and seal.
Vic:  We have time on this.

Jason:  wanted to set the workshop date now.  Vic thought after April 15 would be OK, and Jason has another meeting he wanted to take a look at before deciding on  the date for this one.

Jason:  Moving Ohio Forward.  All of the  buildings in question are unsafe, unsanitary, and not fit to live in.  What I would like to do if it is OK with the board, we can start filling these out and sending them out to all of the owners and lien holders.  Along with this letter (a form letter from Chris Meduri) we will have to set a public hearing.  The owners and lien holders can have counsel with them and will be shown what has been done so far and can respond.  They can present evidence and call witnesses on their hehalf about why the building should not be removed.

Continuing:  This is our next step, to send the letter out, but we have to set a date.  Most townships hold the hearing before a regular township meeting.  If we allow one month, that would put it on the 4th Thursday in April.  On April 16 we are beginning at 6 p.m. to have employee reviews.

Marie clarified that there would be one public hearing for all four properties.

John Festa asked about how the letters would be sent.  One property has 5 liens from the Ohio Department of Taxation.  (Certified mail.)

Jason proposed  April 25 for that hearing, at 7 p.m.  He will ask Chris Meduri some questions about how all of this is usually handled.

The trustees then looked at application for Round 28.  There was some discussion about that and they decided that the public hearing would be at 7 p.m. April 25  for the Land Bank (the condemned properties) and then following would be a workshop for Round 28.  [Blogger:  I believe that will be a special meeting, which will be made clear later on.]

Zoning and Cemetery Files, Vic:  I believe all of those files are over in the room [at the Center Administrative (formerly school) building].  I got a call back about the mailboxes for under $100.

Continuing:  Tierney Bryant has a bunch of the zoning files locked in one room.  I will hook up the one phone and get files in.  Jim Aldrich has been over there doing quite a bit.  I think I have everything that was in John Vechery's possession.
The 9663 phone number was for zoning and the sexton [both of which were done by John Vechery]
Vic, continuing:  It will need two lines/buttons, zoning and the cemetery.

John Festa:  Where would it be ringing to?

Vic:  In that storage room [on the east end of the main floor hallway]
John Festa:  I would think that if you got a phone call . . . .

Jim Aldrich:  I can check from my own phone.
Vic:  I can check messages on my phone.

John Festa:  Everybody has a cell phone--I don't see why you have to call in anywhere.  [Blogger:  See the note below.  However, John Festa seems to have issues about the phones in the Administrative building; there was a fairly intense discussion between him and Marie Stehli before she moved into her temporary office there.]

Jason talked about how this would work.

Vic:  This gentleman was referred to me by Joan Martin.  [Blogger:  To be honest, my eyes glaze over when the phone service for the offices in the Administrative (school) building is the topic of conversation.   I am not sure what the issue is at the front table, since no government body that I know of runs its affairs on individual officers' cell phones if they have physical offices.  That government number stays the same no matter who holds the elected/appointed office.]

Jason:  Old Business--Shredding services.  He reviewed the previous discussion about the shredding.
We have confirmed May 18 from 9 a.m. to 12 noon.  To Brian Tayerle:  You will not need to do anything.  They do all the work.  Maybe put out some signs.

Blogger:  This is a logical place to end this post.  The next part of the meeting considers work at the school building.  Before doing that, however, I want to post the information I got from Todd Peetz, Regional Planning, that describes the Land Bank/Move Ohio Forward program. 

  

Mantua Township Trustees 3-21-13

About minutes on the Township website:  I do not know whether this problem has been fixed yet, but I was in the Fiscal Officer's office in the Administrative Building when Marie tried to post a set of minutes.  She tried two or three times with no success:  everything looked like "Go" until she clicked on the last command, and then something refused to work.  So right now, anyone who wants the official minutes will still have to request them (unless somehow the problem has been fixed..

Toner for the copier having run out, there was no correspondence book to view.  Jason announced that the 2012 Annual Report from Regional Planning had arrived.

Jason also announced that Brenda Wieclaw, manager of Robin Park, had requested that those properties be removed from the land bank list.

Zoning:  Vic reported on a BZA hearing,  Tierney Bryant's first as Zoning Inspector.  The hearing was about a variance.  Tierney presented the denials on the requested split.  After much discussion, the split was approved.  There will be another hearing.

Jason then announced that Frank Horack had asked if he could do a bit of presentation on the veterans' memorial, and Frank introduced himself as the spokesperson for a group called the Mantua Veterans' Memorial Association.

Frank:  A couple of years ago, the trustees wanted to put a memorial in the bull pen by the flagpole.  [Blogger:  I am not sure that the trustees wanted to do this, or at least I am not sure that they initiated it--and I could be remembering it wrong--but it got a fair amount of discussion at the beginning of Jason's term.]
There was a safety issue with people parking at the Civic Center having to cross the [Center] road.  Furthermore, people in wheel chairs face a safety issue.

The Veterans' Memorial Association looked at another site for where they would like to put it.  They came up with a plot on Mantua Center Road and SR 82.  It is approximately south of the cannon and southeast of the water pump.  There would be a little angled sidewalk so that two wheel chairs could pass all the way to the parking lot.
 I have some information on that
The proposal is for 6 memorials, one  for each branch of service and a bigger one for the MIA.

We need approval from the trustees and no cost to the township.  We will take donations and have some verbal commitments.  Another site was picked ten feet off the parking lot, but we thought no one would see it from the road.  We have one little problem--one tree is in the way.  There is about a two-foot hole  in the top and bottom and a small one in the middle.  No sap buckets are on this tree.

There is presently a driveway marker in the ground that would show the location.  If there are any questions, I would be happy to answer them.  We were planning to put up a flagpole and would need lights as well.  We would need permission to trench for this.

We have someone on the committee looking for grants.  There is a grant available for township parks.  [Frank gave a handout to the trustees showing the grants that had been awarded in Portage County.]
There are matching funds required, of course.  [Blogger's italics.  Frank's said just above that  there was no cost to the township.]

Continuing, Frank said that the deadline is May 1 and that it is a big project.

Vic:  I have some information on that.  When we had that surveyed, the driveway [of the house on the west side of the bullpen] is township property.  There is electrical service over there already.  One of the issues was parking here and crossing and that is when we had it surveyed for access.  That area at the bullpen has been surveyed.

Frank:  That information was not available to the group.  [Blogger: Maybe.  This was a serious enough topic for enough meetings that it seems as if anyone interested would have learned all of it at the time.]

Vic:  It has been surveyed and the old part of that road is township property.

Frank:  Bud Foster was involved with that years ago and the project was dropped with a problem with the Historical Society. 

Vic:  There is electric running from that pole and the area has been surveyed.

Frank:  That is a bigger issue now because the township is growing.

Vic:   That is when we found out that they can park there.

Frank announced that there is a  meeting set up at 4568 Winchell Road (Frank's place).

Vic:  Part of that old barn [across from the bull pen area] is actually on township property.

Frank:  Thank you.  I will bring it to the committee on Tuesday.  I would like it if the trustees or someone would let me know.  [Blogger:  OK, this is what my notes have.  I am not sure now what Frank wanted to be let know about.]

John Festa:  I am all in favor of a memorial for soldiers and hope it goes well if the plan is what the trustees accept.  I think it is a great idea, and thank you.

Frank:  We should have a lazyon or however you say it.  [I think it was Jason who supplied "liaison.".]  We are looking into a non profit number which is a 6-8 month deal.  Or go through another organization that has one or go through the trustees.

Jason:  It sounds like the Veterans' Memorial Association has thought about this for quite a while.  When I was first elected  it was presented to the board and [I(?)] thought the township could benefit from honoring different groups and veterans.  I think it would be great to pick something like this back up.  Do you have a timeline?

Frank:  Our group is pretty mixed on the timeline.  They think they could begin and get it done this year, but that is not going to happen.  The biggest thing against it of course is money.
To Marie:  Can a fund be set up for this to accept donations?
Marie: It can be done.

Frank:  It is their decision, not mine.  I will relay the message to them.  There is another non profit which has agreed for us to piggy back on them.  We will need more volunteers and money.  We do not want volunteers that just sit and give advice.  [Blogger:  This is just a suggestion:  Follow the word "money" through this discussion of the Veterans' Memorial.]

Jason:   Hopefully we can take a look at that.  We have access to Regional Planning.  If we can use hours that are paid for from Regional Planning, we can use it as an extension of our office.  I might be able to ask them if we can apply for this, and work with them to see if it is a possibility.
To Vic:  Any other comment?

Vic:  I will try to follow up on this.  You are looking to light the area?
Frank:  We are looking for four bulbs.
Vic:  Cost?

Frank:  $15,000-$20,000.  That is a turnkey if we hire everything out.  We have a lot of volunteers who have said various things but we are at a standstill now.

Roads, Brian Tayerle:  Cutting things on Pioneer Trail.  We started on the roadside mower, taking the boom [?]off to get it ready to have the clutch put in.

The mini excavator:  There has been talk about it and I have 6 quotes.  That is what it is and it can only go up from there.  It would be nice to demo a machine before we look at it, but we are going to have to look at a trailer before we get it.
The two that stuck out were the Bobcat and the Case.
Jason:  You have looked at these?

Brian:  The rep said he would come up and talk at a meeting.  [Blogger:  Somewhere in here, Brian took all of the paperwork up front to Jason.]

Jason:  State bid is really a huge discount.
Brian:  20%-25% off.
Jason:  We are looking at $50,000-$60,000 at state bid price?
Brian:  That is with all the options we would like to have.
Jason:  Which machine would you like to demo?
Brian:  The Bobcat.  It is a little cheaper.

Jason:  Is it something they would be willing to demo out?
Brian:  They would drop it off and we would have to leave it in someone's yard.
Jason:  Maybe we can rent the trailer for the duration of the demo.

John Festa;  Brian, have you talked to the Bobcat rep?  Would he be willing to come too?  Would you ask him?
Brian:  Of all the machines, those two stick out.  The Komatsu is nice but is big money.  Even with the government discount, one of those other machines is $66,000.
John Festa:  Thanks for doing the legwork.

Jason:  Also if you think of the ditching projects and lined up a couple of projects it would be possible to try it out.
Brian:  We thought we could use it on Old Frost to widen it.  Work needs to be done to keep the road nice.  You can grade it all you want but the berms need to be cut to keep the water off.

Club and Committee Reports

 Sue Skrovan, Garden Club:  We met on Wednesday in the Town Hall and amended the by-laws and constitution.  We discussed classes attended at Lakeland Community College and also discussed beginning to separate plants in a plot to prepare for our sale in June.  Sue  asked for donations from other members or residents who are thinning their gardens.

LCA:  Nothing to report.

Chamber of Commerce, John Festa:  A couple of things.  Mantua Village is looking forward to being released from fiscal watch by the state.  Their sidewalk and sewer project is moving forward.  Shalersville is doing spring cleanup the first Friday and Saturday in March.  Then he was corrected:  It is the first Friday and Saturday in May.

Trustees' Reports and New Business came next.  They will be in a subsequent post.


 

Rotary Program on Fracking, 3-26-13

The following post is the statement I was given about the program for the next  Rotary Club of Mantua meeting.
Read on.

The Rotary Club of Mantua is excited to announce Dr. Alan Coogan will be their guest speaker on March 26.  Dr. Coogan is a retired petroleum geology professor with over 30 years teaching at Kent State University, and over 30 years as a practicing attorney with a main focus on natural resources of oil, water, and pollution.  Portage County oil and gas drilling has been a focus of his attention while at Kent State.  He will be speaking on the Ohio shale fracking of the Utica and Point Pleasant layers currently being drilled in our county.

This is an open meeting with limited seating.  Dinner will start at 6:15 p.m. and will cost $8.00, or attendees may listen to the professor for free starting at 6:50 p.m.   RSVP is a must for the dinner and speaking arrangements.  The location is the Hilltop Church on West Prospect Street in Mantua.  To RSVP or more information, call Dean Olson at 330-351-3035. 

Township Hall; Public Comment: More on School

 Blogger Foreword:  This post has not been proofread really carefully yet, but it has been checked against a recording, so I am satisfied that the content is a fair account of what was said.  I hope that whoever checked out this post while I was working on it will recheck.  What was on the screen at that point  was pretty rough in spots for layout and also not yet compete for content.

Township Hall project:  John Festa had nothing to report.

Vic:  I have a number from a firm to call to see if they can help with the ventilation.

John Festa asked about the pipe that can be sold.
Jason said that he was going to advertise the pipe and had to get that done.

John Festa made a motion to go into executive session to consider employment and read from the ORC about the reasons for executive session.  It would be held after paying the bills.  Jason seconded.

Public Comment began at 9:18

Mark Hall:  On the 4 houses for tear-down:  Is anyone living in them?
Jason:  There can be no occupants for a house to qualify for this program.
Mark: Did I hear you correctly about the grader--that you are going to see about the contractor's equipment bid to see about using it?  You realize that the long term costs would be higher [Blogger:  to have the mini excavator, I believe].
Continuing:  A levy for the school:  What that levy is asking for is for people to commit money to the school.  It does not say whether they want the building saved.  It is two separate things--they should be kept clear.

Lynn Harvey:  In the bids [for work on the school]--demolition was discussed.  What exactly were you referring to--what has to be demolished?

John Festa:  The contractors asked for assurances that there would be no asbestos.
Lynn:  IF they demolished something.

Jason:  Carpets or removing chalkboards.  Tearing up the tile in the hallway.

Lynn:  What did you ask for?  Chalkboards, ceilings?

Jason:  I could just provide you a copy of the specifications.  Rather than go through each, I would rather provide you a copy.

Lynn:  Was any consideration  made for the historic nature of the interior when the specifications were made?
Jason:  Nothing that was specified would be considered.
Lynn:  Chalkboards.

Jason:  That was not an option.  We did not know what was behind the boards.  That was an open ended item and was left open.
[Blogger:   See the Diamond Environmental report excerpt:  If materials are covered and contained, there is no problem.  Therefore, if it ain't broke (or exposed) don't "fix" it.)

Lynn:  Were any of the companies specialists in historic construction.

Jason:  Hummel.  I can not speak for Brant or Troy.  We reached out to another with historic experience [Littleton Kirkpatrick] but that did not work out.

Lynn:  If the building does make the listing on the National Register, would that change anything about the way the trustees are deciding?  That can bring in some money.  Basically that [a levy] is the kiss of death  in this economy.

Jason:  I don't see it that way.

Lynn:  They barely support the schools even when they have kids in them.  If you can, wait a couple of months about the decision to be on the register. . . .

Matt Parsons:  My understanding is that there was recently someone hired to help Marie Stehli with records requests.  Was this position advertised?  Answer:  No.
Matt:  Was a background check completed?
Jason:  That is likely why there is an executive session.

Matt:  What about siding for this building?

Jason:  We might have to consider that.  Linda Ehlert spoke about that several meetings ago.  Historic preservation advises against that.  I don't know that is our first choice.

Vic:  We did not hire someone [just] to hire someone to assist Marie--she is the secretary of the BZA at this time.  That is why this was not advertised.

Matt:  Was the BZA advertised?  Were background checks done?

Vic:  No.  This [assisting Marie, I believe]  is more like community service.  It [BZA] was advertised for many years.

Larry Parsons:  Is there any way at the beginning of the meeting to get anything about what we get from the rental of the buildings?  I am curious about what we are getting.

Vic:  [That is done] At the end of the year.  We really did not begin renting the gym until spring and we brought in about $1100.

Larry:  I want to commend you [to Jason and John Festa] about trying to get a price for the voters.  But if you put a plan together and make it nice, fine.  I wish I had had  a vote.  If we had it all finished.

John Sera (sp?):  I was going to say the same thing he did.  With that much money at stake there should have been a solid plan:  phase 1, phase 2. It should have went [sic] to the voters.  If that had been done, I don't think we would be where we are now.  We still have to pay for it.  Where are you going to get the money? So going to the public is exactly the right thing.

Jason:  The money we have in the coffers isn't that much for this project.  Every year we have to allocate money for the most important things in the township.  We don't have even $50,000 set aside to work with.
[Blogger:  Remember, this from one of the two people who has been spending money to the tune of $100,000 per year more than we have been taking in.]
 
John Sera:   What if the volunteers get hurt?
Jason:  There are affidavits.
John Sera:   There are plenty of companies that do restoration on old buildings that could have been called and you could have had a price by now..   [Blogger:  Somehow, I think that the point of having volunteers got missed or ignored.  Furthermore, every time I hear this "you could have. . . ." theme, I think of the phrase "Monday morning quarterback."  There are lots of them talking about what should have been done on this building.]

Carole Pollard, Allyn Road:  I think that there is more to this than just the school itself.  Let's just say you decide to tear it down.  There are demolition costs.  Where are you going to do?  Sell it for a song?  That seems irresponsible.  I am not sure you could do much with it until it is paid off, which will be another year and a half.  In that time you can either work or continue to drag your feet because a lot of this looks like stalling.  If you sell it then you have lost the land.  What are you going to do for more land?  Where are you going to get the land?  How are you going to pay for it?

There is a regional energy company headquarters in Canton which cost $192.00 per square foot.  If you even just build a 12,000 square foot building, the size of the original building, that is a lot of money. [Blogger:  At $190 per square foot, that comes to $2,280,000.  That's just the building, no furnishings, I believe.]  Where are you going to get that money, Jason?

You have set aside $60,000 for a piece of equipment that is not built to run on pavement, and the tracks wear out fast on pavement.   The tracks cost $2500.  A trailer to haul it will cost at least $2500 for a used one, and more for a new one.  You never blinked about that.

   The school building will be there for another hundred years if it is cared for properly.  And I don't see a plan for this building, which has been piecemealed from the start.  If you are going to talk about apples to apples, which I can prove to you is an impossible comparison, you should be consistent across the board in how you approach things.  My question is where are you going to get the money and the land for a new building, because it will cost more.

  The Mantua Village Hall is going to cost a million dollars by the time it is all paid for.  It is very small, is not accessible,  has no parking area, and can only be used for very small meetings.

No government building makes any money.  This building makes no money at all.  The Civic Center may just about support itself.  If you are going to talk about where the value is, these buildings (Town Hall and Civic Center) are more fragile, more subject to deterioration, and more requiring of ongoing, constant maintenance.

I know that there is a lot of money to go into that building, and I also know that  the 2002 report that John Festa keeps referring to was hired by the school [board] to prove that [our] school was not worth keeping.  John Festa has never mentioned the 2004 report by Dave Sommers which is more positive, more hopeful, and more possible than the one that Mr. Festa has been hanging onto ever since he started talking about reports.
 

Ellen Monroe:  I want first to say that the reason the community is so divided is that it sat there empty and unused for all those years.  I have taken it upon myself to rent it for 6 consecutive Tuesdays starting next Tuesday and I hope the community will show its support and interest in how the building can be used.

  I would like to ask the trustees if I can use a sign I have made, a sandwich board out by the street for the next 6 weeks advertising this event and encouraging attendance.

Jason:  What is the verbiage on the sign?
Ellen:  I have not done that yet.  It would be just "Open School" and the dates.   Potluck lunch and supper would be highlighted.        [ There were no  objections from the board.]

Steve Zielinski (sp?) had no comment.

Dave Pollard:  On the tractor, I don't know the guy, but have heard good reports on his work.  You are going to save $200-$300 easily on transportation costs.  There is a company called Cribco that has reasonable prices for replacement parts.  As time goes on with people being unfamiliar with clutches, they wear out because guys often rest their foot on the clutch.  Since the township has owned that tractor, the clutch should not have worn out [in that amount of time.]

Concerning the mini excavator, I heard something about someday putting a mowing head on it. It will cost you more to mow with it.  The tractor tires will last 4,000 hours.

Concerning the grader,  you have 36 miles of road that need to have berming work, which the grader will do.  The excavator will not do it, will not do it as fast, and when you get to the end of a road, you have to transport it somewhere else.  By only looking at Frost Road, you are ignoring the other 36 miles of roads.  The grader will cut the berm off and you can pick it up with the tractor and load it.  The mini excavator is not going to do that.

I want to thank Ellie  Monroe.  We have heard the word "Community" bandied about ad nauseam for the last 7 or 8 years.   What Ellie is doing is an example of a community minded person at work.

Dan Cozzens:    I agree with you guys on the procedure for the school. The vote should have been done 8 years ago. Keep up the good work.  I appreciate it.

Larry Leitzow:  If that school-- everybody thinks that we want to tear the building  down, nothing against the school, it should be up to the taxpayers.  There is a lot of wasted money in there. 

Nobody on the other side of the fence has ever said tear the annex down.  It is a good building.  If the school does come down it is up to the taxpayers.  You can build a nice one-level building that is handicapped accessible.  

I hope you get a good architect in there to find out what it will cost.  It has got to be done right from the basement all the way to the roof, probably air conditioning and people probably don't want to rent if it is not air conditioned.  You better think about an elevator.  If you are going to do it do it right.  I think it's a good move [blogger:  putting it on the ballot].

 If the school does come down you can build a nice one-level handicapped accessible building.  You better think about an elevator.  

Hostility to School Made Clear--3-7-13 Trustees

Blogger Foreword:  This post is long because the blog format would have disrupted the continuity of the discussion.  I have reviewed my own notes against a recording, and this post is now as edited as it is going to get.    I have proofread (and corrected a lot of typos) and checked on exact wording  and  figures to be sure they were correct. 
It is not a transcript, but it is true to what occurred.  For the most part, when I check to see what I missed, it is more of the same that was in my notes and would not substantially change anything.

Center School:  Bids and Next Steps

Jason:  I will open this discussion and let the other trustees comment.  The basis for getting the bids for the first floor of the school was the need for office space.  Marie was working out of her home, as was the zoning inspector.  There was no good place for records storage.



We did a pretty good job of getting into the annex [We, Jason?  Seven or eight of us, not counting Vic, worked like indentured servants for about 10 days before the Open House in 2011.  We saw you for maybe an hour and a half.  So "we" is a real coattail grab.]  Trying to phase into getting into he first floor  was the next logical step.  Rather than trying to piecemeal it together the thought was to get some quotes and figure out what it was really going to cost.

The trustees agreed on some specifications for the first floor that outlined a baseline for each room.  But it has come to our attention that quite a bit of other work needs to be done as well.  [Blogger:  Remember that comment, which sounds so neutral and responsible.]

John Festa:  I looked at all three of these proposals.  Two of them I can accept.  One of them I got an estimate only and the first sentence was that these figures represent assumptions and my opinion.  So that one has to be set aside.  [Blogger:  That one was (a) the lowest bid, and (b) the assumptions were about how much work would be done by volunteers.]
The other two seem OK.  One is very to the point and gave a price.  The other one is pretty  in depth. [Jason asked the names of the companies at this point.]  Answer:   Troy Construction and Hummel.  The one I rejected would be Brant Carpentry.
The other two proposals give the price on the spec sheet you (Jason) passed out.

The two seem to want assurances that --one says that prior to the start of any work we will need written assurances that there is no contamination or hazadardous material--lead based paint, asbestos, tile in the main hallway.   [That was Troy Construction.]

 [Blogger:  Apparently the contractors were not informed of the findings of the Diamond Environmental report--which, if you go back to check on the meeting when the findings were presented, John Festa tried to discredit on the spot.  So he would certainly not have passed on  the findings in that study--which cost the township several thousand dollars.  Why did we do that study, if it is not going to be used?  And is that not a waste of the taxpayers' money?
Furthermore, after all of the huge "concern" voiced in meeting after meeting about all of those hazards, every time Vic raises the issue of removing the tile and mastic and having a clean building, it gets ignored.]

Hummel wants notification of abatement. 

John Festa, continuing:  I don't think that reading the environmental assessment from Diamond Environmental I don't think that gives the assurances.  Diamond Environmental cannot guarantee that all materials have been located and identified.

[Blogger:  John Festa at this point read at length from the Diamond Environmental report and also from requirements from Troy Construction and Hummel Construction regarding hazardous materials, mostly asbestos but also lead based paint.  I plan to present all three bids/proposals in their entirety after having completed all blog posts for this meeting.

Here is what John Festa read from the Diamond Environmental Report.  What follows in italics is quoted directly from the report, which, now that it is in the hands of the trustees and Fiscal Officer, is a matter of public record.

General Limitations

• Diamond Environmental cannot guarantee that all asbestos material was located and identified in this survey.
• Asbestos materials not previously identified or quantified, may be encountered  during renovation or demolition.  (Boldface from blogger.)
• During renovation additional quantities of asbestos material  may be encountered that were previously inaccessible.  (Boldface from blogger.)
• During renovation or demolition, if new or additional  quantities of suspect materials are encountered, all activities should cease and the material sampled.  Boldface in original.

Note:  One key word in the bold faced portions, above, is "may."  The key concept is of exposing previously contained or covered materials through tearing things out or breaking into walls.  If the asbestos is properly contained, there is no problem.  "Behind block walls" sounds contained.    

John Festa continued to read from another section of the report, which follows verbatim.

Results

If during renovation or demolition, if new or additional quantities of suspect materials are encountered, all activities should cease and the materials sampled.

Areas of possible future concern:  

• Unknown if asbestos material is underneath carpet.
• Unknown if asbestos material is behind cinder block walls.
•  Unknown if asbestos material is above or behind plaster walls and ceilings.
• Unknown if pipes are asbestos insulated behind cinder block walls.
• Unknown if asbestos mastic behind chalkboards.
• Unknown if asbestos brick was used behind pipe/HVAC chases.
• Unknown if asbestos material is behind/inside mechanical chases.  

Note:  I checked with the EPA office on this wording, which John Festa used as his justification for bringing everything to a halt.  It is all pretty standard disclaimer language to protect a company insofar as possible from legal liability. The only way to achieve the 100% guarantee that John Festa is basing his objections on is to dismantle the building brick by brick.
End of direct quotes from Diamond Environmental as well as blogger commentary on this part.]





I don't think we can use any of these quotes because we can not provide a written guarantee that there is no contamination.
That being said, I don't think in my opinion I don't think we can go any further on these quotes.
My next concern is that before we get started on this project, we have other concerns on the school building that I think are more important. 

The roof is pretty bad  and we have no air conditioning.  [Blogger:  I am not sure what the comment about the roof is based on; certainly, not on any professional building inspection  that  I know of.]  The energy loss is going to be enormous.  I think my biggest concern is that we need to have a plan before we can  move forward and the tax payers need their input on this.  I can not put my name on this.

Jason:  What do you propose?  [Right.  Can you spell "choreography," boys and girls?]

John Festa:  I would like to propose that we as a board come up with a plan on how we are going to use the entire school.  I know t hat we need office space.  I am willing to say and would  be in favor of putting our office in that building on condition that we are able to rent the building and have some additional income.   A senior center downstairs and a business center upstairs.

[Blogger:  That was part of the original rationale for purchasing the school building:  use it for assembly (like voting, dinners, kids' activities like the Santa event, etc.), education, and business, which included the township offices.
 Before the 2009 election, there was a lot of yelling about not having a tenant who had signed a contract.  Vic pointed out that legal counsel had advised against doing that at that point. Regardless, Debby Vogias had been patiently waiting to move her preschool into the basement.  Bogus claims were made that she had a rental agreement for an amount that was ridiculed--but it was more than the building has brought in for business rental since  Jason and John Festa were elected.
 If you remember, one of the first things John Festa did was run Debby off by threatening her with legal action if she did not get her things out of the trailers, rather than doing something to help get her into the school and begin getting some rental income.
Jason is in the fourth year of his term and John Festa is in the second one of his.  What have they been doing with that time?  We're still hearing about a plan, as if they had just encountered the idea.]

John Festa:  But then we are probably going to be talking about quite a bit of money.  But if the plan the board puts together is good enough, I would go sell it to the community and put it on the ballot.
.
[Blogger:  Well, glory be!  Someone is actually keeping a campaign promise!  Jason said in his League of Women Voters candidate's statement that he would work to get us into the old school building.  Right. Within a few months he said he would sell it.  Since then, he has been all over the map regarding the school.  Now here we are.  John Festa, at the League of Women Voters candidates' night, said he thought the issue of the school should go to the voters.  Somehow, this kept promise does not strike me as admirable.  It was an agenda assigned to him by his main sponsor:  not to put the issue before the voters, but to find a way to get rid of the 1914 building.  That will come out in public comment.]

John Festa, continuing:  I have my own assessment that I have done over the time I have been here.

The roof needs to be replaced.  [This was not an item on Jason's first-floor spec list.]  I did get one estimate for the old part of the building.  The roof:  $37, 365.  Front steps, $28,000.  An estimate on the windows came to $1750 per window.  Security system:   $11,158. 

These were estimates without proposals and [Blogger--to the best of my knowledge] without details. 

John Festa:  The last figure is  rather high:  $885,000. 

[Blogger:  I have the report that John Festa keeps referring to and want to review it carefully, along with all of the items that are on his study that added up to the figure above.]  

Jason:  I see you have figures on quite a bit of this.  What is the source?
John Festa:  That study came from one Crestwood Schools did in 2002.  That being said, I would go forward by having a plan good enough that would satisfy everybody and present it to the voters with cost estimates and factual pricing. 

Jason:  So you are saying present it to the voters by putting it on the ballot.
John Festa:  We would have to do quite a bit of legwork.

Vic:  I am willing to accept all three bids.  As far as the  Diamond Environmental report, that is why we paid for the test.  What came back was that everything is OK--it is a clean building with the exception of about 30 feet of asbestos that can be removed [Blogger:  This is pipe wrapping, I believe]  and that the tile can be removed for a [total] cost of about $3,000.  As far as the report from 2002, that was all suspected material that has been disproven with the environmental test.  The Building Department says we can move into it and use it.  I don't see why we are not using the building.

Two of the bids are pretty detailed and one uses a lot of volunteers.  Everybody tells us we can use the building and we went through the cost of the environmental tests.  We have been trying to put a plan together for the last year and now we have to go through another plan.  A lot of the work can be done by volunteers and everybody says it can. 

I would recommend that we look forward to removing what is in there regarding the asbestos.  I have the one room prepped to get the file cabinet moved in there.  In the other room, we can start moving stuff in there.  The hallway can be cleaned up.  I think we should move forward.

Jason:  I am going to take a step back  [Blogger:  Of course he is] and let everyone know what is going on.  [Blogger:  Not unless you tell everyone about all that is going on off stage. That's what's really going on.]

I get calls on the Center school.  I don't get calls on what we are doing well.  We are doing our job on the roads and cemeteries.  We are doing our job on the buildings.  [Hmm.  Are we?  Blogger.]  The Center school since 2004 has been a white elephant.  There has been no direction or plan.  Some people want to tear it down.  When people come to me in the community it is not always people who want to keep it.  There are mixed opinions.

That is tough for me as a trustee.  I have been elected to make the best decision for the people I serve.
[Blogger:  By the end of all posts for this meeting, including public comment, think about how the bold-faced statement may seem different than it does right here.]

Jason, continuing:  When I get a lot of different opinions that makes it tough.  There are a lot of different feelings on that property.  This is a challenging project.  We are still paying on the building for another 1-1/2 years.  This is something the community has been paying for since 2004.  This is tough and where do we go from here.  In these last couple of weeks in reading the bids and getting quotes from people, to be honest, this seems like the same situation with the single trash hauler contract.

We have people in the community who are very diverse.  What I equate the trash hauling service to the building , it is a cause of animosity.  This is something that we can take to the voters.  [Blogger:  Jason, do you think that taking it to the voters will remove or diminish animosity?  Have you not paid any attention to national politics, of which Mantua Township politics are a microcosm?]

 We have a dollar amount.  That would be doing my job as a trustee.  If we take the least cost figure,  I don't know where we would come up with $30,000.  Add it up at a minimum even with volunteers and we come up with $40,000.  [Blogger:  That was the Troy Construction bid; Brant's was just over $30,000.    I encourage it but for me as a township to do it correctly and the way the residents deserve, the only way to give them a voice is to put it on the ballot.

[Blogger:  Years ago when a Fire Department levy came up, we were visited and told  that we deserved "a Taj Mahal," which apparently the MSFD building was called in some circles.  "Soft  soap" about what wonders we deserve is a time-honored propaganda and advertising technique.  When McDonald's says, "You deserve a break today," it's only a few dollars.  When you start talking about buildings, the situation is a whole lot different.  "Doing it right" translates into "We are going to spend as much of your money as we can part you from."]

Jason, continuing:  This is what keeps me up at night.  That is where I stand.  [Blogger:  Stand?  I see nothing in the above statements about a stand or  about being accountable.  Neither have I ever heard Jason put forth any facts and figures of his own, despite his assertion at one point that he was all about facts and figures.  And when I presented some to him, he dismissed them as "your opinion."]

Jason, continuing:  I am in absolutely in favor of offices in the building.  I am absolutely  in favor of keeping records in the building.  Those are primary concerns.  We need to get that building useful as soon as possible.  All of the trustees so far have dropped the ball but probably this should have been brought to the voters before.  I will share in the blame.

 [Blogger:  Talk is cheap.  That last statement cost Jason nothing.  He "dropped the ball "within a few months of being elected by reversing position and saying he would sell the building if the price was right.  He dropped it again after the special meeting last May to have a "problem solving session."  The final step in problem solving is implementation.  The meeting ended and nothing was proposed,  let alone implemented.]

Jason:  We have these quotes and I appreciate all of the quotes.  They did a good job of putting things together.  This is a double edged sword--we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.  [Yep.  It's called being an adult in public life.]

John Festa:  To your point:  I think we need an absolute plan.  We need a cost analysis for the entire building.  We need to tell the community what we are proposing to do and present it to the community and I want to be proud of it.

 [Blogger:  What it takes to make some people proud is a loaded Lincoln Navigator.  Others would be proud of a Chevy Cruze.  We are not Aurora or Gates Mills.  But we can be proud of a building that suits us and says that we are solid, no-nonsense people who want a solid, handsome, usable building.  As an example, I suggest that people take a drive into Chagrin Falls and go inside of the Chagrin Falls hall on Main Street.  Why can't we have something as carefully, handsomely done as that?  And it sure isn't gold plated.]

John Festa, continuing:  Marie has this very small space she is working in and we have  not solved the records problem.  In conjunction with this I would like to get the west room ready.  [Blogger:  Marie proposed this exact thing almost a year ago and was ignored and told that she could go to rented office space somewhere else in the township.]  We have some money and it is not going to cost $30,000.  If we get that room in order, we can serve two functions.  It will show residents that we have a vested interest in this building.  We want to do the basement as well as the upstairs.  If we show the residents that we have this vested interest and this is what we are doing now, . . . we keep one room ; we stop the work and then go to the voters/taxpayers.

Then we can get them to a centralized location.  This past two weeks I have thought about this continuously.  This is where I am.  I think this is the only rout that will be the most for the community.

Vic:  You (Jason) brought up the trash hauling and there were a lot of comments.  When I asked people what they thought and for their advice, they said, "That is what we elected you to do."

That building was bought for the community and I think we should get into it and use it.

Jason:  We are elected to make decisions for the community.  For something that has this much animosity in the community . . . .  [Blogger:  Making decisions about high conflict situations takes courage.]

On the trash hauling, all three trustees . . . .we could not put that on the ballot.
Jason also commented that Vic had inquired about doing that, and when I checked with Vic about it, he said that he had been asked to do that; he had not initiated the inquiry.

[Blogger:  In other words, it wasn't possible to dodge the responsibility that way.  But the decision was dodged.  There were supposed to be three meetings to discuss the issue, and after the second one, the integrity of which had been compromised to some extent, Jason thought that it was so apparently divided that no solution was going to be satisfactory and wanted to drop it.  Vic said that the trustees had said there would be three meetings and that three meetings should be held.  Nothing further ever came of that.]

Jason:  I would like to set aside a few thousand dollars to work on  the west room so we can have an efficient records storage.  I have a lot of work to do with an engineering firm.  [Blogger:  It's been done.  In 2004, the trustees had Dave Sommers and Associates do a site assessment of the building.  So we are supposed to spend more money on the same thing?  How is this a responsible use of the township's dwindling resources under the "stewardship" of the present majority?]

Continuing:  You have to be 90 days early for the Board of Elections.

John Festa:  I will agree with you on the west room if we stick to the plan you have just outlined.

Vic:  Are you going to do anything about the asbestos removal?

Jason:  Let me ask you:  Do you think asbestos removal will do anything about restoring the west room?

Vic:  I am concerned about the tile coming up.  It would cost $1170 to remove the tile and get asbestos abatement in the hall.  It would cost about $750 to remove the mastic.

Jason:   If you want to expand the scope and remove the tile, I would not want to do any work on the downstairs [where the asbestos-wrapped pipe is].

Vic:  A lot of the west room can be done by volunteer work. 

Jason:  If we follow the specifications on the sheet, do you want to manage that and manage the folunteers for that specific room?  Here is the thing.  We had specifications we all areed on.  If we went with those and set limits. . . .

Vic:  I would have to have some time to think about it.

Jason:  One option is to set aside $8,000 or $9,000 and take care of that room.  We might even be able to utilize one of the estimates we already have.

John Festa:  Yes.  Show everybody we are serious [!] about putting our heads together to get this done.

Jason:  Let me ask you this--  are we willing to go with volunteers  to do the work?  Troy Construction--
I can't speak to Brant Carpentry because you have worked with him.  Troy took out the painting because they thought the volunteers could do that.  We may be better off going with Troy Construction. 

Vic:  I will take a look at it.

Jason:  I have to talke with the Board of Elections and call a couple of architects--Dave Sommers or Todd ___[lost that name--blogger] to take a look.

The discussion about the school ends here.  

Blogger:  My office mate used to leave at the end of the day with this parting remark:  "I have enjoyed about as much of this as I can stand."   I can identify completely with that.

Mantua Township Trustees 3-7-13

Trustees' Reports, continued

John Festa:  Workman's Compensation.  The person there wants to come to the April 18 meeting to discuss ways to save on Workers' Comp.  She asked a couple of questions on Workers' Comp and whether we had a written policy.  I told her I did not know.

At the seminar we learned we had a claim that no one [here] seemed to know about.  It turns out that one of the road crew (Mike Richards) had slicerd his finger on a sign.  I don't think it will take long to have her here.

Jason and Vic both thought the April 18 date was OK, and Jason confirmed that about 20 minutes could be set aside.

John Festa, continuing:  Chagrin River Watershed Partners want to come also but a date has not been put together for that.
Also--the letter we got at the last meeting from Dominion.  Are we in an aggregation program like NOPEC?

Jason:  We are in NOPEC. 

John Festa:  Read from the letter, which sounded like the kind of "boiler plate" letter  that we all get, and asked if we are in a program. 

Marie:  We are.  I am not sure what you are asking.

Jason:  We are a member of NOPEC.

John Festa:  So we are not in any of these programs?

Jason:  NOPEC can answer your questions specifically.

Marie presented the gas bill, which indicates our status.
[Blogger:  Boldface here is not an accident.  Some things deserve emphasis.  At one point Jason reached over and pointed to the place on the bill that should have answered John Festa's questions.]

John Festa then inquired  about the flags--are they made in America?

[Blogger:  Although I do not have a note that Vic's trustee report started now, that's what it looks like.]

Vic:  The little ones are made in China.  All of the other ones we get from Newbury, and they are American made.  [Blogger:  I will buy someone a cup of coffee if this issue was NOT raised last year and answered the same way.]
Vic:  looked into getting a P.O. box to be shared by the sexton (Jim Aldrich) and the Zoning Inspector (Tierney Bryant).  Vic passed information to Marie and pointed out that some government agencies will not send anything to a P.O. box.  The form Vic handed out is a procedure for how things are to be handled.

Vic, continuing:  I have been very busy with the zoning and the cemetery, as you can see from Jim Aldrich's reporrt.  I did get the rest of that inventory, most of it.  A few things will have to be deleted.  I still have to get the copy and have turned some things over to Jim Aldrich.  He said he would give Marie the list as soon as he was done with it.
Inventory:  There is a 1997 camera listed which we can not find and is probably obsolete.  Vic said that [?] has probably been returned to the garage.    I [Vic] have the measuring wheel.  Everything else has Jim Aldrich's name with it.  All of it should be picked up by this weekend.

8:15--Old Business

The land bank, Jason:  We will try to mke this short if we can.  The current four properties have been inspected bny the fire department, health department, and building department.  All four are unsecured, uninhabited, and uninhabitable.  I want the board to get copies before we make any decisions.
We also received reports from the health department and the building department.  All agencies report that the buildings are unsafe and uninhabitable.  We have received the lien searches and have the lien holders for all of them.

Jason then read from a letter from Chris Meduri.  He had attached a sample resolution which Jason passed out and which the township, as the next step, then serves by certified mail to the owner of record and the lienholders.  Then there are some legal procedures.

We have to set a public hearing for this and must give written notification of the inspection reports, the intention to remove the building, and the time, date, and place of the public hearing.  Sending the letters to the property owners is going to be easy.   Jason also commented that finding the lienholders would be another matter.

John Festa  asked about addresses. 

Jason said that some of the properties have more than one lien and one has extensive liens--six, to be exact.  He will follow up with Chris Meduri.  He did not think we are in a position yet to set a public hearing.

Vic:  We have always sent both certified and regular mail.

Jason:  We have to be prompt because we want to get into the process.  Then he spoke to Brenda Wieclaw, manager, Robin Park.  He had sent her an e-mail and she said she had had computer issues that apparently interfered with her getting the message.
Jason:  It was about a week and a half ago--I need the updated list.  Brenda thought doing that would be no problem.

Jason, continuing:
Cemetery files and shredding services.  At the last meeting I talked about a community shredding day for people who have a lot of documents that should be shredded.  I think it would be  great to bring this to our community.  It would probably be on a Saturday.

The fee is $200 per hour, minimum three hours. 

Marie gave Jason something from InfoShred, which charges $90.00 per hour with a minimum of three hours. 

Jason had also followed up with a company called Iron Mountain, but did not care for how things went while working with them.
Jason:  I think $90.00 per hour is excellent.  He thought that doing this right around the trash cleanup day seemed like a good idea.

Vic:  Probably not the same day but probably the end of May.  Spring cleanup is usually the first or second weekend. 

Jason checked his calendar:  May 18th or 25th.  [It was pointed out that May 25th is Memorial Day.]
Vic:  I will try for May 4 for spring clean up.  Jason thought that would be OK, and that is the tentative date.

Marie suggested handing out fliers for the shredding at spring cleanup.  [Blogger:  How is it that Marie added things and offered things during this section of the meeting without being told that it was not her meeting?]

Jason:  Made a motion to use InfoShred for a community shred day, tentatively scheduled for May 18.  (They do all the work.)  Vic seconded and then added that he called to the recycling center and they will do shredding free of charge, but paper must be taken down there (Mogadore Road, off S.R. 18).  Vote:  unanimous.  Time will be 9-12 noon.

Jason:  I spoke with Mr. Zedinsky [Blogger:  That's as close as I can guess about the spelling, and I apologize if it's bungled too badly.] about the Ford tractor.  This is for the clutch.  These are estimates, not bids--you can never tell what you will get into with a clutch repair.  He is on Rt. 88--we can drive the tractor there, and the price range of $1500-$1800 from the dealerships did not include hauling.  His best date would be the beginning of April.

Vic thought doing it there would be a good idea.

Jason made a motion to have John Zedinsky (Sedinsky?) do the work to replace the clutch in the Ford, not over $2,000.

Vic:  I had contacted another local person, but he is just now recovering from surgery and can not do it.  Vic seconded the motion.  Passed unanimously.



[Blogger:  The next post will be about the bids and the school building project, and it will be long.  I did not want to start it here and then finish it in a second part just to produce two posts nearly equal in length.]  

Mantua Township Trustees 3-7-13

Blogger Foreword:  For those of you who have been looking for Trustees Meeting minutes on the township website, there is some technical glitch between the two systems that have to "talke to each other" to post the minutes.  I am not going to even try to get a grip on that.  Best advice is just to check every once in a while--but Marie has tried to post the minutes and not been able to.

That leads to the second foreword:  I guess the blog is going to continue as it has been for the past couple of years--not a verbatim account most of the time, but detailed.


Jason began the meeting by introducing Tierney Bryant, Mantua Township's  new Zoning Inspector.  Tierney is a licensed fire marshal.  Jason asked her to lead the Pledge of Allegiance.

The minutes were reviewed and corrected and the correspondence listed, including notices of the inspections conducted of questionable properties (Land Bank) by the responsible agencies.
Correspondence included 2 e-mails from Dawn Pechman.  Betsy Woolf has spend about 8 hours on Ms Pechman's request(s), and Marie has spent several hours on them as well.

Sexton:  Burial fees:     $1825.00
              Lots:              $2565.00
              Foundations:    $290.00

Zoning:  The BZA has a meeting scheduled for March 18 at 1900 hours (7 p.m.).  $225.00 has been collected for that hearing.

Lynn Harvey:  Tierney Bryant has received her hard copy  of the last zoning book.  Lynn has picked up the discs and has not yet gotten a printed copy.  Lynn said that then the Trustees need to tell her how to go about getting the discs for those who want them.  There was some discussion about Lynn getting into the school building to do the copies.  She wants to review everything to be sure that it is correct.
A lot of ink and paper has been used in working through the zoning--cartridges will have to be replaced, and Lynn estimated needing about 3 reams of paper.

Road Department:  John Festa wanted to know about putting the grader up for auction or bid with a reserve on it.  He asked if that is allowable.
Jason:  In the past we have had to estimate a value and then based on that value  determine that we no longer have a us for it and then we have done on-line auctions.  We can also do just a regular auction.  In the past we have done sealed bids.  I don't know if this is a candidate for that.  There are quite a few things that we have to do for items that are above $2500 in value.

John Festa said he did not want to make a mistake in disposing of it.
Jason believed that the thought behind selling it was for purchase of another piece of equipment, basically toward the mini excavator.

John Festa said he did not get a copy of the mileage statement, and Marie said that she did not get one either.

Vic:  About the grader:  are you going to have someone look at it and appraise it?
John Festa:  Good idea.  [Blogger:  I am going to hazard a guess here that when Vic asks a question and either of the other trustees says, "Good idea," that translates as "I hadn't thought of that."]

Vic:  I am not in favor of getting rid of it.  There are a lot out there and they are not bringing a lot of money.  It is not costing us much.


Marie:  Didn't Brian Tayerle say we should keep it?  [Blogger:  He did, at the last meeting, and made a good case for doing so.]

Jason:  Marie, the conversations are among the trustees, so we would prefer that.
[Blogger:  I talked with Marie about this exchange.  She had offered the comment in her professional capacity and responsibility as the Township's financial officer and advisor.  Please remember that the township has spent  enough money in the last two years to diminish its cash reserve by at least $200,000, a fact that drew the attention and cautionary remarks of the state auditors.  That information is in an earlier blog post that quotes the Management Letter verbatim.  So--Jason just told Marie to be quiet, and John Festa and apparently Jason as well are ignoring Brian Tayerle's opinion and advice.  One wonders: whom DO they listen to?
One more thing:  Marie is not Jason Carlton's and John Festa's secretary, no matter how often they try to treat her like a stereotypical blonde bimbo.  And, yes, I know that "blonde" as shorthand for not bright is another stereotype.]

Jason observed that the grader gets used on Old Frost.

Vic:  You can use it for berming and pushing back snow.  That is why I am not in favor of getting rid of it.

Jason:  I don't see any harm in getting a price on it to see what it would be worth and deciding after that.  In talking to someone to the south, the market is basically there because of the number of dirt roads.

[Blogger:  "don't see any harm. . . ."  Has anyone else ever heard the expression "The camel's nose under the edge of the tent"?  The rest of it goes like this:  once that happens, the rest of the camel follows inevitably.  The agenda here is to sell the grader.  Skeptical?  Watch the way the rest of the meeting went.]

Club and Committee Reports:  Garden Club, LCA, and Chamber of Commerce all had nothing to report.  Trustee reports followed.

Jason:  We are looking at annual lawn maintenance.  I have provided you with a copy of the updated dates. This is for maintenance of the grounds the township owns.  We have done it annually previously, but many government entities do this on a two-year basis.  He listed the buildings, specified 26 cuts for the year, and itemized the things to be done.  There is an opt-out clause, and this year two professional references are being requested.  He asked about the two-year span, and neither Vic nor John Festa had any objection.

Vic:  For the bids--that should be a sealed bid.

Jason commented on the time crunch for advertising and receiving the bids and opening them by a certain date.  John Festa inquired about a walk-through, and Jason mentioned including a date for that, which would eliminate some confusion about what is actually to be done by the contractor.

Zoning Inspector additional responsibilities.
Jason:  We talked about this a number of times while we were in the hiring process.  Section 200 of the   Zoning Resolution is to "perform other duties as described by the Trustees."  Jason asked if there were any additional responsibilities.

Vic:  No additions, but some questions.  For reporting verbal citations with the dates:  are you going to request a list of the individual citations or just list how many were given?

Jason:  There has to be a record of such citations so the home owner knows what is expected.  Without a record of the citation, the date can get lost.

Vic:  Are you asking for that to be passed on every month to the trustees?
Answer:  Yes.
Vic:  You wanted a list of citations sent to the prosecutor.  We would know that because we are the ones who sign and pass it down.
Jason:  I don't know if we have to sign.

Vic:  We have to do this by resolution.  Normally the Zoning Inspector would bring the paper work to us and we would pass a resolution.  The Zoning Inspector does not send it to the prosecutor--we do t hat.  I think if the Zoning Inspector keeps a log, it does not have to be passed on every month.
Jason:  This is open to discussion.  To John Festa:  Do you have any thoughts on this?

John Festa:  For the first part of her employment I would like to know.

Vic:  I personally do not need all that list of people verbally cited.  If she kept a log, we would have the record.  It does not have to be passed on every month.

John Festa:  So you would expect a log every month?

Vic:  No, as long as she keeps the log, it does not have to be given to me.

John Festa thought that would be OK.  Jason revised the item under discussion to keeping a log of all the verbal citations, to be available to the  trustees, and then asked if there was anything else.

John Festa:  I would like for the Zoning Inspector to keep an accurate mileage log and I guess we could do that the same way as. . . .  I would like for her to keep a logbook.

Jason:  I think John Vechery has a log.

Vic:  I am sure it is in one of those boxes  and we will find it when we go through them.  There are a lot of boxes.

Jason:  I make a motion to the effect of what we have outlined in front of us--that a log of  verbal citations and mileage be kept.

Second by John Festa.  Unanimous.

[Blogger Note:  Dave Pollard came in at 7:50 and signed before finding a seat.  At 8:03 or so, Dan Cozzens, who had arrived before the call to order,  got up and signed in.  If you ever wondered how the same people always speak last in Public Comment,  now you know.]