[Blogger Foreword: Mary Ann Weber continues doggedly to present her case, which in my opinion seems to make it clear that being a good neighbor is not on the township's agenda, the township in this case amounting to the two junior trustees. The thought processes here look pretty tangled to me.]
Mary Ann Weber: I was skipped over on the list last week. My questions were about tearing up the road. My main concern is having access to my property because my driveway is half way down there. With this removing the trees and rhododendrons that is a great idea because right now it is hard to see someone coming south on Center Road and turning into Diagonal.
My daughter has a very low car to the ground and she has to be able to go through there. [Also, Mary Ann asked about the chipper being used.]
John Festa: We have been more than patient about the boundaries. You have to agree that the property is where it is do we can grant you the license. If you don't, your driveway is on Diagonal Road. So unless we establish something for you, there will always be these ___[?]. We need to move forward. We don't want to force you out of anything.
Mary Ann: She explained some things about her property and situation.
JF: Our intention is not to interfere with your life.
Mary Ann: Anyone who works over there usually blocks the road.
JF: In order to move forward, a decision has to be made about the property. We have already said we would grant you a license. You are asking us not to block your driveway but it is still our property.
Mary Ann: I want to talk with an attorney about purchasing that little piece of land.
JF: We are not in a position to sell the people's property.
[OK, everyone. If you haven't gone hunting for the salt shaker so far, now would be the time, if you have a pretty fair recollection of previous meetings over time.]
JC: To be fair, none of us were trustees when we acquired the property [which was around 1800 when the township was surveyed, I believe. Blogger.]
Jason, continuing: I think you are kind of missing the point. How we got to those boundaries is great for historical knowledge, but it will not change where the pins are. We can not sell you that property. We would have to put it up for auction.
[More talk about this followed.]
[I don't know whether John Festa or Jason made the next remark]: We are not trying to block you out of your driveway.
Mary Ann: It has happened many times.
JC: Just contact the road crew. Who was blocking you?
Mary Ann: Last year the guys who did the edging and mulch had to big trucks and they dumped their mulch in the road and had the whole place blocked. I cold not get in.
JC: All you had to do is let them know. If it happened one time last year . . .
Mary Ann: It has happened more than once.
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: First of all, I think that the more deliberate approach to the bull pen and gazebo is a good idea. That was reassuring. I think that Sue's question about whether this woman has seen the place in person, not just from Google earth, is crucial.
I would like to suggest that the trustees and their families have a picnic over there.
At this statement, Jason snorted. CP: I'm serious. John Festa: What is that supposed to mean? [He was not smiling.]
[The above three comments occurred pretty much simultaneously, on top of each other.]
CP: Because we have been telling you how noisy it is and how busy it is and you don't believe us and you dismiss it.
JF: I didn't say I don't believe you.
CP: That has been said at the front table--it has been passed off as nothing. The clear intention is to proceed no matter what and I am saying you need to know what the rest of us do, as if two meetings ago was not enough with the noise here. I think you need to see that this is serious the way the rest of us have. I think the committees working over there might come to a similar conclusion.
I was trying not to be confrontive. So much for that attempt. I think that will do for tonight.
[Blogger: Two things were blatantly obvious here: Jason snorted in dismissal or derision or something, and John Festa was openly hostile and appeared to sneer at my statement about not trying to be confrontive. At the risk of sounding like a grade school kid, I don't think I initiated the ridicule and hostility on this one. And from Bill Kelley's request for Jason not to laugh at him, it sounded to me as if he got similar treatment. Because I am looking down to write, I don't see what goes on with other people when they comment. I do see responses to my own remarks. All of the pious declarations about the people and serving them kind of shrivel next to the behavior.]
Dave Pollard, SR 82: I am not going to talk about the bullpen. I want to thank whoever did something about the door. It opened more easily and the people who usually slam it when leaving did not. [Blogger: Here is what happened: Vic, apparently, took a look at the door and I think had someone really check it. One nail had worked its way out a little and was hanging things up when the door was opened or closed. On the way out of the August 4 meeting, I spoke with Jason about it. He was amicable and conciliatory and it was perfectly clear to me after something like 6 or 7 years of his tenure that he was not going to do one thing about it. Vic did. As usual.]
Dave, continuing: The last time I came down here on the tractor, I realized that the road drops almost two feet in the last 30 feet. If 82 were brought up to the level of Center Road, you would be able to see. That would be much less expensive than [regrading 82].
Jason: If I could address that directly, 1-1/2 years ago I began with ODOT, and they did a study. They had been hearing about it. They came out and pulled all the crash statistics from OHP. They did a site survey, and they have some criteria for a site survey. Almost all the issues were for vehicles traveling west bound on 82 and southbound on Mantua Center Road.
One solution was the Look Again signs. They thought there had been good success with that. They did not even recommend the flashing lights around the sign. Their advice was to cut the berm back and in order to do that, they can avoid the trees, but were concerned it would kill them. Rachel and Nate Adams did not want to lose them. While Nate and Rachel were concerned about public safety, they did not want the trees removed. ODOT was not going to conflict with the home owners on that. That is probably where it will stay.
Dave: They need x number of fatalities in a given period before they will do anything.
[Blogger note: A week ago, on August 20, I ended up not going to Heinen's in Aurora because of an accident at Center Road and 82. There was an ambulance and a hauler that a car was going to be winched up onto, plus the Highway Patrol, of course. So Jason and ODOT may be satisfied that their job is done, but here we were again. I know that accidents happen. But when they cluster in an area, that implies something about the area. I wonder how many (if any) fewer accidents have happened at that intersection since the survey and the Look Again sign which is ridiculously easy not to notice. But the bureaucracy has done its job. (By its own definition; never mind about reality.)]
After Dave's comments, the meeting recessed to pay the bills. I talked with a couple of people for a little, and then came home. And just think--we get to do it all over again day after tomorrow.
Tuesday, August 30, 2016
Monday, August 29, 2016
8-18-16 Public Comment: Many Very Clear Remarks
Sue Skrovan, Wayne Road: The question I have for John Festa is regarding this KLA risk insurance woman. Did she come and look at the property?
John Festa: She went onto Google Earth so she seen [sic] what I was talking about.
Sue: So she has not stood there at rush hour.
JF: I made a motion that we are not going to build anything there.
Sue: I wanted to make clear whether she had walked around the township properties.
JF: There is nothing there to concern her now.
Bill Kelley, School Lane: [Blogger Note: This will be somewhat condensed.] Bill--This is a continuation of the two previous meetings and it concerns about 3/4 acre that was mentioned in a document from 1856. ]Bill described the property--School Lane.] The east portion of the road is a 12-foot portion which trees have grown onto. It was established in 1848 when ODOT came out and established the right of way. [It] will accommodate perhaps 20 automobiles. This is a prime piece of real estate that has to be guaranteed by the trustees. Portage County Engineers have the current map. We located the pins.
[Bill explained his concern about the busy day he anticipates for the upcoming election. If I took notes correctly, he said that 80 parking spaces are required by the Board of Elections; thre are actually only 72spaces at the school.]
Bill: If you could tell them there are 20 more spaces, we can keep the polling place there. . . . What are you going to do as trustees? These gentlemen (Chad and Jeff) want to get lots of people in there. How are you going to get people to park? This room [for parking] is right there and is not being used. [Bill thought that people wouldn't park on the grass.]
So what are you going to do about it? Jason has commented earlier, but this is the third time I have been here and have not heard anything [about action].
John Festa: Obviously you know my intentions about taking back township property. My intentions are well known. If we get a proper survey, my obligation is to reclaim land.
Bill: This was brought up three meetings ago.
JF: But we also have the county prosecutor as a law director and I am sure he will ask us for a survey. He will ask us about whether we are within our rights. [Blogger: The point of this remark eludes me.]
Bill: Having watched ever since the school became a polling place, parking and traffic can be improved. By the same token, with the school and the activity that will occur there, this is for the greater good.
Jason: I think you are looking for action at every meeting. I hate to say it, you are not going to get it as quick as you want.
Bill: You are missing the point again, Jason. [My notes say "list of things to do."]
Jason: Let me talk. Our intention is to maintain the road right of way, not all 60 feet of the designated width. . . . What you are asking for to claim our land, I think you are taking too far. Whether we choose to utilize it or not is at our discretion. Do I think parking could be improved, absolutely. There is a lot of work other than just getting the road back and having people park there. I do not feel comfortable having people park on grass because they [cars] can sink. . . .
Bill: You are misinterpreting what I am asking for. Go to the county fair--they park on a field and on the ball field at the potato festival. My point being that for one day a year, for the greatest right citizens have, allow them to park on the western section of that road which you control. That is real simple. You are misinterpreting entirely what I said.
Jason: We are definitely looking at it and I don't know that we are going to move as fast as you want.
Bill: Would you let anybody to take over your property? Don't laugh at me.
[Blogger: I was writing and so did not see what was going on, but I gather from Bill's comment that Jason was doing just that. To be sure, if you want to find out, check the video.]
Nick Ehlert, Center Road: I have a story to share with you. Everybody knows about Gettysburg. In the 20's, Devil's Den was an amusement park. In the 30's the government got involved and said this was valuable ground that should be taken back.
You have an 1830's park with a modern memorial on it and a WWII cannon. The gazebo is a great idea, but let's have it where it could be used for band concerts and other activities. Jason, you take this all for granted.
[Blogger: Those are all the notes I have on Nick's remarks. I believe that what Nick and Bill share is frustration over what appears to be indifference to things that they believe are supremely important: Heritage, which can too easily be lost; and the rights of citizenship, which should be treated with reverence and take precedence. Instead, there is an odd blankness of response that is unsettling in people who are called trustees: Those who are trusted to act on behalf of the citizens. Clearly, Jason believes it is all a matter of their discretion, not a duty.]
Chad Delaney and Jeff Jackson had nothing to add, and Mark Hall had no comment.
Lynn Harvey, Mennonite Road: Going a little on what Nick is saying, be sure that everyone making the decision should look at the zoning book. The establishment of a park in a residential zone is provisionally permitted.
The applicant has to own the land. The committee does not own the land. [Blogger's italics.]
Jason: Technically it is under the township trustees' name.
Lynn: So maybe the trustees will have to be the applicant.
Jason: John Dickey has met with Jim Aldrich about some of these issues.
Lynn: The other thing--the gentleman who was here about the trees might be helpful about the landscaping. The salt shortens the life of trees along road sides. Maybe the committee can benefit from his expertise.
Jason: I am not sure we are changing the use.
Lynn: The gazebo means people will be picnicking and doing whatever; parking will encourage people to use it.
Jason: If the park district came to me today and asked me about our parks, I would say [it is] a common use area.
Lynn: This is part of the green, and this comes up in the state's mapping system as the historic Mantua Center.
John Festa: Doesn't it say in the land use plan that this is a park?
Lynn: I don't think so. I think the plan recommended looking at having more parks.
Vic: On the original deed, [Blogger's boldface] four things were listed: the Community Center, the Town Hall, cemetery, and parade ground. That is all I ever found. This has always been called the green and that was called the bull pen because I guess there was one there.
Mary Ann Weber: It was called the public square.
Lynn: I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but that can be done in several different places.
Vic: There is not much acreage over there, and that is probably why not much has been done. [Blogger: I reviewed the recording, and acreage is the correct word. When I made the post, I had transcribed that note as "action." Incorrect.]
Lynn: Before there was air conditioning, you could not hear for the [Zoning Commission] meeting because of the traffic. A couple of weeks ago when Mark Hall and I were putting up flea market signs, the noise was deafening. Kids run around and they can be in the road. With all the distracted driving someone can be in there.
Jason: But those risks exist now.
Lynn: But you are going to make more attractions.
Vic: The trees and shrubs there now are high maintenance.
Lynn: Does anyone know whether in its early history there were big trees on that like the ones here?
Nick: The parade was militia. It would have been used for their drill. I am doubtful there were trees on it. [Addition subsequently: Nick also said that the militia would have paraded shoulder to shoulder.]
[Blogger: The next person to speak was Mary Ann Weber, but her remarks will be in the next post.]
John Festa: She went onto Google Earth so she seen [sic] what I was talking about.
Sue: So she has not stood there at rush hour.
JF: I made a motion that we are not going to build anything there.
Sue: I wanted to make clear whether she had walked around the township properties.
JF: There is nothing there to concern her now.
Bill Kelley, School Lane: [Blogger Note: This will be somewhat condensed.] Bill--This is a continuation of the two previous meetings and it concerns about 3/4 acre that was mentioned in a document from 1856. ]Bill described the property--School Lane.] The east portion of the road is a 12-foot portion which trees have grown onto. It was established in 1848 when ODOT came out and established the right of way. [It] will accommodate perhaps 20 automobiles. This is a prime piece of real estate that has to be guaranteed by the trustees. Portage County Engineers have the current map. We located the pins.
[Bill explained his concern about the busy day he anticipates for the upcoming election. If I took notes correctly, he said that 80 parking spaces are required by the Board of Elections; thre are actually only 72spaces at the school.]
Bill: If you could tell them there are 20 more spaces, we can keep the polling place there. . . . What are you going to do as trustees? These gentlemen (Chad and Jeff) want to get lots of people in there. How are you going to get people to park? This room [for parking] is right there and is not being used. [Bill thought that people wouldn't park on the grass.]
So what are you going to do about it? Jason has commented earlier, but this is the third time I have been here and have not heard anything [about action].
John Festa: Obviously you know my intentions about taking back township property. My intentions are well known. If we get a proper survey, my obligation is to reclaim land.
Bill: This was brought up three meetings ago.
JF: But we also have the county prosecutor as a law director and I am sure he will ask us for a survey. He will ask us about whether we are within our rights. [Blogger: The point of this remark eludes me.]
Bill: Having watched ever since the school became a polling place, parking and traffic can be improved. By the same token, with the school and the activity that will occur there, this is for the greater good.
Jason: I think you are looking for action at every meeting. I hate to say it, you are not going to get it as quick as you want.
Bill: You are missing the point again, Jason. [My notes say "list of things to do."]
Jason: Let me talk. Our intention is to maintain the road right of way, not all 60 feet of the designated width. . . . What you are asking for to claim our land, I think you are taking too far. Whether we choose to utilize it or not is at our discretion. Do I think parking could be improved, absolutely. There is a lot of work other than just getting the road back and having people park there. I do not feel comfortable having people park on grass because they [cars] can sink. . . .
Bill: You are misinterpreting what I am asking for. Go to the county fair--they park on a field and on the ball field at the potato festival. My point being that for one day a year, for the greatest right citizens have, allow them to park on the western section of that road which you control. That is real simple. You are misinterpreting entirely what I said.
Jason: We are definitely looking at it and I don't know that we are going to move as fast as you want.
Bill: Would you let anybody to take over your property? Don't laugh at me.
[Blogger: I was writing and so did not see what was going on, but I gather from Bill's comment that Jason was doing just that. To be sure, if you want to find out, check the video.]
Nick Ehlert, Center Road: I have a story to share with you. Everybody knows about Gettysburg. In the 20's, Devil's Den was an amusement park. In the 30's the government got involved and said this was valuable ground that should be taken back.
You have an 1830's park with a modern memorial on it and a WWII cannon. The gazebo is a great idea, but let's have it where it could be used for band concerts and other activities. Jason, you take this all for granted.
[Blogger: Those are all the notes I have on Nick's remarks. I believe that what Nick and Bill share is frustration over what appears to be indifference to things that they believe are supremely important: Heritage, which can too easily be lost; and the rights of citizenship, which should be treated with reverence and take precedence. Instead, there is an odd blankness of response that is unsettling in people who are called trustees: Those who are trusted to act on behalf of the citizens. Clearly, Jason believes it is all a matter of their discretion, not a duty.]
Chad Delaney and Jeff Jackson had nothing to add, and Mark Hall had no comment.
Lynn Harvey, Mennonite Road: Going a little on what Nick is saying, be sure that everyone making the decision should look at the zoning book. The establishment of a park in a residential zone is provisionally permitted.
The applicant has to own the land. The committee does not own the land. [Blogger's italics.]
Jason: Technically it is under the township trustees' name.
Lynn: So maybe the trustees will have to be the applicant.
Jason: John Dickey has met with Jim Aldrich about some of these issues.
Lynn: The other thing--the gentleman who was here about the trees might be helpful about the landscaping. The salt shortens the life of trees along road sides. Maybe the committee can benefit from his expertise.
Jason: I am not sure we are changing the use.
Lynn: The gazebo means people will be picnicking and doing whatever; parking will encourage people to use it.
Jason: If the park district came to me today and asked me about our parks, I would say [it is] a common use area.
Lynn: This is part of the green, and this comes up in the state's mapping system as the historic Mantua Center.
John Festa: Doesn't it say in the land use plan that this is a park?
Lynn: I don't think so. I think the plan recommended looking at having more parks.
Vic: On the original deed, [Blogger's boldface] four things were listed: the Community Center, the Town Hall, cemetery, and parade ground. That is all I ever found. This has always been called the green and that was called the bull pen because I guess there was one there.
Mary Ann Weber: It was called the public square.
Lynn: I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but that can be done in several different places.
Vic: There is not much acreage over there, and that is probably why not much has been done. [Blogger: I reviewed the recording, and acreage is the correct word. When I made the post, I had transcribed that note as "action." Incorrect.]
Lynn: Before there was air conditioning, you could not hear for the [Zoning Commission] meeting because of the traffic. A couple of weeks ago when Mark Hall and I were putting up flea market signs, the noise was deafening. Kids run around and they can be in the road. With all the distracted driving someone can be in there.
Jason: But those risks exist now.
Lynn: But you are going to make more attractions.
Vic: The trees and shrubs there now are high maintenance.
Lynn: Does anyone know whether in its early history there were big trees on that like the ones here?
Nick: The parade was militia. It would have been used for their drill. I am doubtful there were trees on it. [Addition subsequently: Nick also said that the militia would have paraded shoulder to shoulder.]
[Blogger: The next person to speak was Mary Ann Weber, but her remarks will be in the next post.]
Sunday, August 28, 2016
Trustees 8-18-16: Various safety items; Elevator
[Blogger Foreword: Parts of this post will be summarized or merely referred to. My notes are almost 40 pages' worth. Anyone who wants absolutely every word can watch the video on the Township website, mantuatownshipohio.gov. I think that's right. If not, it's close enough to get it for you. However, there is a Mantua Township in New Jersey, FYI.]
Lynn Harvey, Zoning Commission: The date of the public hearing is September 20, at 7 p.m. in the Township Hall. It is for reviewing the revamped zoning descriptions. This was done by a GIS expert, Claudia James. If you compared it with what is in the book now, you might find some different terms, but other than that it should be a good thing. I don't think there should be any controversy about that.
Nothing on the cemetery.
Brian Tayerle reported on work on the roads. Center Road has gotten its first course of asphalt. A decision has to be made about berming that road. Four miles of road will also be chip and sealed.
Vic agreed about the need to berm the road.
Jason added that all of the grindings could be used as material for the berming.
Brian also added that John Festa had told him Tuesday that there would be a fire inspection and that the emergency and exit lighting had to be working properly.
There was some discussion about that and the lights and the most economical way to do this. That could be partly handled by the $500 we have available from Birnham and Flowers.
John Festa had a list of the lights that do and don't work.
Vic added that an evaluation was going to be necessary at the school in conjunction with the elevator, and it makes sense to co-ordinate everything, since some upgrading is going to be necessary.
John Festa was concerned about not having all of that done before the 30th; Vic added that the FD usually gives time in order to come into compliance.
John Festa mentioned the kids in the building now..
Vic: It looks as if they will not be in there much longer. Right now there is a proposal about a study of that for the alarm for the elevator. The ones working over there are in the hallway.
There was some discussion of technical issues.
Vic: We didn't set aside much money for the buildings this year or last because it wasn't there.
John Festa: The new chief means we will have more inspections.
Jason made a motion to ask for an OTARMA grant to upgrade the exit lighting.
Club and Committee reports:
Garden Club, Sue Skrovan: Typically the Garden Club does not meet during the summer. I will shortly be notifying our members that we will meet 9/21 at the Township hall. We will probably meet earlier if the weather cools off enough and we can begin removing plantings. It they can be relocated there, please make suggestions. We want to get them out of there because a lot of them are in the [?] area of the trees.
Our meetings are open to everyone. We do not have a large membership but we have a group of ladies who want to give back to the community. [Blogger's emphasis, based partly on reluctance at a previous meeting to talk about the meetings of the beautification committee.]
Sue, continuing: We are looking at moving into new avenues and expanding our horizons.
Ladies Cemetery Association: Nothing.
Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., Carole Pollard: The next event is the food tent we will have at Derthick's Corn Maze, from September 17 through October.
On Election Day, Dave Pollard and Susan Buckles will again have coffee, donuts, and other refreshments at the Civic Center for those who wish to stop by after voting.
On November 12 the restoration society will have its second dance honoring veterans. Last year's dance was a USO event, which we will not be repeating, but we will be honoring veterans of the Korean and VietNam wars. Linda Ehlert is chairing the event.
On February 25 we will be holding an art-related event and are working out the details. A silent auction of little (9" x 12", for example) art quilts will be part of the activities.
Chamber of Commerce: Nothing to report. Barb Herbold and Amy Janca left at that point.
Fire Department: John Festa reported on dispatch services and commented that we are in a good position because our contract runs until the end of December.
Trustee Reports, New Business, and Announcements
Jason: Nothing.
John Festa: I have some questions. [Blogger: This introductory statement never bodes well.]
There is a new proposal for the school--an e-mail about the school. It is information about the size of the elevator. Now that we [Gable Elevator, see last meeting's blog] had to pull out, I don't want to see anything less than a passenger car. If they are using a LULA [Blogger: Light Utility Lift, and I don't know what the A stands for] and putting it in place of a passenger car, I am not going to accept that.
[Blogger: Uh huh. Throw a monkey wrench into the process by bidding despite a conflict of interest, and now act all concerned about it being done right. Typical.]
Vic: That other meeting that was covering the fire alarm, Eric Hummel and Hal Stamm were there today and met about the electrical engineer. They are removing some of the elements.
John Festa: About the fire service--the elevator has to have fire service so that the firemen can commandeer the elevator car. The other part is called fire recall--if the smoke alarm goes off on the top floor the car goes to the bottom floor, and vice versa.
[Blogger: Which may be why all elevators have a notice saying "In case of fire, use the stairway."]
JF: We have to be careful about how the system is installed.
[Blogger: See my comment above. And I would think that any reputable company that installs elevators would know all of this, given how heavily regulated this industry is.]
Vic: One of the questions in that e-mail is that the trustees can bid it out, but it is part of the elevator package and must be at prevailing wage. That is something we may want to look into. If there is a savings to it, we will look into it.
John Festa: It does not call the fire department. Most of the hardware is in the controller. The rest is just smoke detectors and wire. Eric Hummel's e-mail referred to a Ravenna Company. Hal Stamm had a provision on the drawings that the township enter into a second contract for the fire services. They want us to enter into a separate contract ourselves.
Vic: We will have to do that at prevailing wage.
JF: I can get a list of companies and ask them to come out and give us a bid. There is a list that has to be run every month for the state. All they do is turn a key on, see how the elevator works, and turn the key off. They charge $300.
[Blogger: It sounds as if this is something both Vic and Festa know about, and I may have lost a key word or sentence. What I have been told is that having an elevator in a building means monthly inspections, which this may refer to.]
Vic: The fire alarm system now is obsolete.
New Business:
Vic: There was some vandalism in the cemetery. [A photograph was pried off one of the headstones. What in the blue-eyed world is wrong with people, and who raises these animals? Or lets them out of their cages at night? Aargh.]
Continuing: Also--I asked for the new price list (rental fees, Civic Center and Annex) to be put on the website. [This has been an issue for months. Jason is the contact to request changes and additions to the website. I have heard that the webmaster is not Johnny-on-the-Spot about this as well.]
Vic, continuing: About 4 p.m. today I received a phone call from the attorney about the subpoena.
Jodie Thompson said she had mailed it today. [Here's the rub: I believe that this came up at the last meeting also. This is not only a subpoena, but a public records request. Failure to comply carries a fine, and not a tiny one.]
JT: I sent it just regular mail. [!] Jason asked when it was sent.
Vic: We discussed about this at the last meeting. He added that he could check with the attorney the next day.
There were some things that were either relatively minor or that I did not catch. Next was public comment, and that will be a separate post or even two.
Lynn Harvey, Zoning Commission: The date of the public hearing is September 20, at 7 p.m. in the Township Hall. It is for reviewing the revamped zoning descriptions. This was done by a GIS expert, Claudia James. If you compared it with what is in the book now, you might find some different terms, but other than that it should be a good thing. I don't think there should be any controversy about that.
Nothing on the cemetery.
Brian Tayerle reported on work on the roads. Center Road has gotten its first course of asphalt. A decision has to be made about berming that road. Four miles of road will also be chip and sealed.
Vic agreed about the need to berm the road.
Jason added that all of the grindings could be used as material for the berming.
Brian also added that John Festa had told him Tuesday that there would be a fire inspection and that the emergency and exit lighting had to be working properly.
There was some discussion about that and the lights and the most economical way to do this. That could be partly handled by the $500 we have available from Birnham and Flowers.
John Festa had a list of the lights that do and don't work.
Vic added that an evaluation was going to be necessary at the school in conjunction with the elevator, and it makes sense to co-ordinate everything, since some upgrading is going to be necessary.
John Festa was concerned about not having all of that done before the 30th; Vic added that the FD usually gives time in order to come into compliance.
John Festa mentioned the kids in the building now..
Vic: It looks as if they will not be in there much longer. Right now there is a proposal about a study of that for the alarm for the elevator. The ones working over there are in the hallway.
There was some discussion of technical issues.
Vic: We didn't set aside much money for the buildings this year or last because it wasn't there.
John Festa: The new chief means we will have more inspections.
Jason made a motion to ask for an OTARMA grant to upgrade the exit lighting.
Club and Committee reports:
Garden Club, Sue Skrovan: Typically the Garden Club does not meet during the summer. I will shortly be notifying our members that we will meet 9/21 at the Township hall. We will probably meet earlier if the weather cools off enough and we can begin removing plantings. It they can be relocated there, please make suggestions. We want to get them out of there because a lot of them are in the [?] area of the trees.
Our meetings are open to everyone. We do not have a large membership but we have a group of ladies who want to give back to the community. [Blogger's emphasis, based partly on reluctance at a previous meeting to talk about the meetings of the beautification committee.]
Sue, continuing: We are looking at moving into new avenues and expanding our horizons.
Ladies Cemetery Association: Nothing.
Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., Carole Pollard: The next event is the food tent we will have at Derthick's Corn Maze, from September 17 through October.
On Election Day, Dave Pollard and Susan Buckles will again have coffee, donuts, and other refreshments at the Civic Center for those who wish to stop by after voting.
On November 12 the restoration society will have its second dance honoring veterans. Last year's dance was a USO event, which we will not be repeating, but we will be honoring veterans of the Korean and VietNam wars. Linda Ehlert is chairing the event.
On February 25 we will be holding an art-related event and are working out the details. A silent auction of little (9" x 12", for example) art quilts will be part of the activities.
Chamber of Commerce: Nothing to report. Barb Herbold and Amy Janca left at that point.
Fire Department: John Festa reported on dispatch services and commented that we are in a good position because our contract runs until the end of December.
Trustee Reports, New Business, and Announcements
Jason: Nothing.
John Festa: I have some questions. [Blogger: This introductory statement never bodes well.]
There is a new proposal for the school--an e-mail about the school. It is information about the size of the elevator. Now that we [Gable Elevator, see last meeting's blog] had to pull out, I don't want to see anything less than a passenger car. If they are using a LULA [Blogger: Light Utility Lift, and I don't know what the A stands for] and putting it in place of a passenger car, I am not going to accept that.
[Blogger: Uh huh. Throw a monkey wrench into the process by bidding despite a conflict of interest, and now act all concerned about it being done right. Typical.]
Vic: That other meeting that was covering the fire alarm, Eric Hummel and Hal Stamm were there today and met about the electrical engineer. They are removing some of the elements.
John Festa: About the fire service--the elevator has to have fire service so that the firemen can commandeer the elevator car. The other part is called fire recall--if the smoke alarm goes off on the top floor the car goes to the bottom floor, and vice versa.
[Blogger: Which may be why all elevators have a notice saying "In case of fire, use the stairway."]
JF: We have to be careful about how the system is installed.
[Blogger: See my comment above. And I would think that any reputable company that installs elevators would know all of this, given how heavily regulated this industry is.]
Vic: One of the questions in that e-mail is that the trustees can bid it out, but it is part of the elevator package and must be at prevailing wage. That is something we may want to look into. If there is a savings to it, we will look into it.
John Festa: It does not call the fire department. Most of the hardware is in the controller. The rest is just smoke detectors and wire. Eric Hummel's e-mail referred to a Ravenna Company. Hal Stamm had a provision on the drawings that the township enter into a second contract for the fire services. They want us to enter into a separate contract ourselves.
Vic: We will have to do that at prevailing wage.
JF: I can get a list of companies and ask them to come out and give us a bid. There is a list that has to be run every month for the state. All they do is turn a key on, see how the elevator works, and turn the key off. They charge $300.
[Blogger: It sounds as if this is something both Vic and Festa know about, and I may have lost a key word or sentence. What I have been told is that having an elevator in a building means monthly inspections, which this may refer to.]
Vic: The fire alarm system now is obsolete.
New Business:
Vic: There was some vandalism in the cemetery. [A photograph was pried off one of the headstones. What in the blue-eyed world is wrong with people, and who raises these animals? Or lets them out of their cages at night? Aargh.]
Continuing: Also--I asked for the new price list (rental fees, Civic Center and Annex) to be put on the website. [This has been an issue for months. Jason is the contact to request changes and additions to the website. I have heard that the webmaster is not Johnny-on-the-Spot about this as well.]
Vic, continuing: About 4 p.m. today I received a phone call from the attorney about the subpoena.
Jodie Thompson said she had mailed it today. [Here's the rub: I believe that this came up at the last meeting also. This is not only a subpoena, but a public records request. Failure to comply carries a fine, and not a tiny one.]
JT: I sent it just regular mail. [!] Jason asked when it was sent.
Vic: We discussed about this at the last meeting. He added that he could check with the attorney the next day.
There were some things that were either relatively minor or that I did not catch. Next was public comment, and that will be a separate post or even two.
Friday, August 26, 2016
Community Center at the School Proposal
[Blogger Foreword: This is going to be a bit long, but I think it's important for you to get what Chad Delaney and Jeff Jackson said, not what I say they said.]
Jason: Just so you are aware, I have met with these folks. They had a clear interest in utilizing the space at the center school. We met on several occasions. We went over it and I asked them to give us a proposal.
Chad Delaney, Mantua Center Christian Church: As Jason said, we turned in a proposal to use the Mantua Center school as a community center. Conversation started between Jeff and I about 9 months ago. The opioid epidemic is a concern. We started talking about what could be done about that. The more we talked, the more we saw the needs [and began thinking about how to deal with it.] We were wearing our ministers' hats and our other ones. The gym is being used and the school has incredible value to us.
We have worked with a number of local organizations and constituencies. We put a survey out to the Crestwood Schools and heard about things we had suspected. Once we had all of them, we thought this place would be perfect. Right now, a lot is happening but we saw additional use.
We went to the Renaissance Center in Windham. That is church run. We were thinking about a community based organization. There is a place in Columbus, the Reeb Avenue Center, that has invited us to come down and see what they are doing.
We want to do this the right way. Jeff Jackson is going to say some things about our partners.
Jeff Jackson, Hilltop Christian Church, Mantua: It has been exciting investigating this. The Reeb Center is a school that has been repurposed in Columbus. We have worked with Regional Planning, and we have met with Social Services and with people interested in teaching karate and art and different constituents who are interested. We have been thinking about community in general. We want to make it a community center and work with the township to see what it needs. One of the things, as the tree expert said, is that everybody is different. This needs to represent how the community is going to be represented. We have talked with people in community development and people who are neighbors of the school. We are inviting them to be members of a task force to help with this.
We have two interns, one through the XPLOR program for young adults in community service. That is Benton Stull, who has been working with a community center in Pratt, Kansas. He will work 30 hours per week. Half of his stipend is being paid by the Mantua Restoration Society and half by the National Benevolent Association. Also, Emma Bene is a senior at Biomed. They must do community service for 360 hours per year. She will work with Benton to refine it more.
We have looked at three rooms we would like to start with. One is the main floor, that center room, which would be a community meeting room. The lower level center room which began being renovated for child care. Much work has already been done on them. That is where we started. We also have something we would like to do.
Chad: We want to get investment from the township, but also volunteer support from people excited about the building, whether church or community. We are looking for grant funding. I don't know what all will go into it. We are not coming in thinking it must be done a certain way. We have talked a lot with people at the middle and high school and guidance counselor[s]. There is no place for kids to hang out. Right now it's (1) the woods, (2) McDonald's or (3) the park. There is only one good place. We have talked about the after school gap--the two hours between getting home and parents coming home. They get into things they shouldn't be doing when they are left alone.
We want to set up a teen cafe if we can get busing approved. We would love to have Wi-Fi. Possibly partner with the Portage County Library. They were thrilled about that. We talked about after school, but the kids are better off-site and away from the teachers.
Jason has been great dialoguing with us and we look forward to continuing this. My seminary education did not teach me about this. Even though we are both ministers, we see this as a community project. We understand about not all people wanting to be involved in faith communities.
Jeff: We love talking about it so much that the community development plan included us. That was void in the comprehensive plan until we talked with them. The teen cafe is an opportunity as a dry bar for young adults who do not want the bar scene.
In the future, we want to include creativity and entrepreneurship--a small business incubator or people who just have projects and workshops that would benefit the community. Partner with Hiram College. Every time we talk to folks, we learn more. What we did not learn in seminary, we are learning from the community. People have been great.
We have tried to anticipate and move around obstacles so the community center can be an active place that benefits the whole community.
Chad: We see it as an investment in the community, from seniors to young children. We hope it will be an investment in the community.
At this point, Jason expanded on his introduction of Chad and Jeff to give a little more information about them, and then praised what they do.
Jason: Thank you for submitting the proposal. Just give us a couple of weeks to review it. Any questions?
Nick Ehlert: It sounds like you are doing a great job helping kids.
Dave Pollard: This community is very fortunate to have men of this caliber in the community. After Mom and Dad were gone, I came home to am empty house. I can imagine what it is like for a little kid.
I was in Champion a while ago, and a busload of kids unloaded at the school there for an after school program.
On the opioid problem: [ Dave described a visit to a doctor who really tried to get him to take a pain prescription.] If the churches can have an influence either with the medical industry or the insurance, if you an curb the free handouts of drugs, that would help.
Chad: 80% of addicts start on prescription.
Carole Pollard: I asked if there was anything in the program that would help with the cost of running the building.
Chad: We hope that sweat equity can defray some of the cost. We expect to have an investment of some kind. The teen cafe idea is that they will sell drinks and food and that could go towards expenses.
Jeff: Pop-up programs for pay and other such things. [To help defray costs]. Sustainability is one of the issues. We will be going to a conference in September that focuses on sustainability. That is something non profits are always trying to figure out.
Rod Summerlin: Where there are places like this, there is knowledge and sometimes even training for people who need help, not only high school kids, but also knowledge of people who need help. For example: There will be meetings in the next few months about drug issues. These are the kinds of places that people turn to for help. The help may not be there, but it can guide them. There are programs now in Portage County. They will provide NarCan kits. People don't know such programs are available. Somebody in this environment can give tips and contacts.
[Blogger: This was the end of the ministers' presentation of their view of the proposed community center. Their focus was mostly on school age people, but the task force is expected to focus on a different segment of users and thus help achieve a balance of use and activities.]
Jason: Just so you are aware, I have met with these folks. They had a clear interest in utilizing the space at the center school. We met on several occasions. We went over it and I asked them to give us a proposal.
Chad Delaney, Mantua Center Christian Church: As Jason said, we turned in a proposal to use the Mantua Center school as a community center. Conversation started between Jeff and I about 9 months ago. The opioid epidemic is a concern. We started talking about what could be done about that. The more we talked, the more we saw the needs [and began thinking about how to deal with it.] We were wearing our ministers' hats and our other ones. The gym is being used and the school has incredible value to us.
We have worked with a number of local organizations and constituencies. We put a survey out to the Crestwood Schools and heard about things we had suspected. Once we had all of them, we thought this place would be perfect. Right now, a lot is happening but we saw additional use.
We went to the Renaissance Center in Windham. That is church run. We were thinking about a community based organization. There is a place in Columbus, the Reeb Avenue Center, that has invited us to come down and see what they are doing.
We want to do this the right way. Jeff Jackson is going to say some things about our partners.
Jeff Jackson, Hilltop Christian Church, Mantua: It has been exciting investigating this. The Reeb Center is a school that has been repurposed in Columbus. We have worked with Regional Planning, and we have met with Social Services and with people interested in teaching karate and art and different constituents who are interested. We have been thinking about community in general. We want to make it a community center and work with the township to see what it needs. One of the things, as the tree expert said, is that everybody is different. This needs to represent how the community is going to be represented. We have talked with people in community development and people who are neighbors of the school. We are inviting them to be members of a task force to help with this.
We have two interns, one through the XPLOR program for young adults in community service. That is Benton Stull, who has been working with a community center in Pratt, Kansas. He will work 30 hours per week. Half of his stipend is being paid by the Mantua Restoration Society and half by the National Benevolent Association. Also, Emma Bene is a senior at Biomed. They must do community service for 360 hours per year. She will work with Benton to refine it more.
We have looked at three rooms we would like to start with. One is the main floor, that center room, which would be a community meeting room. The lower level center room which began being renovated for child care. Much work has already been done on them. That is where we started. We also have something we would like to do.
Chad: We want to get investment from the township, but also volunteer support from people excited about the building, whether church or community. We are looking for grant funding. I don't know what all will go into it. We are not coming in thinking it must be done a certain way. We have talked a lot with people at the middle and high school and guidance counselor[s]. There is no place for kids to hang out. Right now it's (1) the woods, (2) McDonald's or (3) the park. There is only one good place. We have talked about the after school gap--the two hours between getting home and parents coming home. They get into things they shouldn't be doing when they are left alone.
We want to set up a teen cafe if we can get busing approved. We would love to have Wi-Fi. Possibly partner with the Portage County Library. They were thrilled about that. We talked about after school, but the kids are better off-site and away from the teachers.
Jason has been great dialoguing with us and we look forward to continuing this. My seminary education did not teach me about this. Even though we are both ministers, we see this as a community project. We understand about not all people wanting to be involved in faith communities.
Jeff: We love talking about it so much that the community development plan included us. That was void in the comprehensive plan until we talked with them. The teen cafe is an opportunity as a dry bar for young adults who do not want the bar scene.
In the future, we want to include creativity and entrepreneurship--a small business incubator or people who just have projects and workshops that would benefit the community. Partner with Hiram College. Every time we talk to folks, we learn more. What we did not learn in seminary, we are learning from the community. People have been great.
We have tried to anticipate and move around obstacles so the community center can be an active place that benefits the whole community.
Chad: We see it as an investment in the community, from seniors to young children. We hope it will be an investment in the community.
At this point, Jason expanded on his introduction of Chad and Jeff to give a little more information about them, and then praised what they do.
Jason: Thank you for submitting the proposal. Just give us a couple of weeks to review it. Any questions?
Nick Ehlert: It sounds like you are doing a great job helping kids.
Dave Pollard: This community is very fortunate to have men of this caliber in the community. After Mom and Dad were gone, I came home to am empty house. I can imagine what it is like for a little kid.
I was in Champion a while ago, and a busload of kids unloaded at the school there for an after school program.
On the opioid problem: [ Dave described a visit to a doctor who really tried to get him to take a pain prescription.] If the churches can have an influence either with the medical industry or the insurance, if you an curb the free handouts of drugs, that would help.
Chad: 80% of addicts start on prescription.
Carole Pollard: I asked if there was anything in the program that would help with the cost of running the building.
Chad: We hope that sweat equity can defray some of the cost. We expect to have an investment of some kind. The teen cafe idea is that they will sell drinks and food and that could go towards expenses.
Jeff: Pop-up programs for pay and other such things. [To help defray costs]. Sustainability is one of the issues. We will be going to a conference in September that focuses on sustainability. That is something non profits are always trying to figure out.
Rod Summerlin: Where there are places like this, there is knowledge and sometimes even training for people who need help, not only high school kids, but also knowledge of people who need help. For example: There will be meetings in the next few months about drug issues. These are the kinds of places that people turn to for help. The help may not be there, but it can guide them. There are programs now in Portage County. They will provide NarCan kits. People don't know such programs are available. Somebody in this environment can give tips and contacts.
[Blogger: This was the end of the ministers' presentation of their view of the proposed community center. Their focus was mostly on school age people, but the task force is expected to focus on a different segment of users and thus help achieve a balance of use and activities.]
Tuesday, August 23, 2016
Trustees 8-18-16: Many guests on agenda
After the usual beginning necessities, the first of the above guests was Dana Heffner, of First Energy Corporation. Ms. Heffner had a check for $1500 which she presented to Linda Ehlert, co-chair of the Grants and Funding Committee.
Dana: I have been working with Linda and talking about the community building. She just gave me a tour. I am excited about being able to help out. Linda had submitted a grant application. The $1500 [can go to] the elevator project. Best of luck--this will be a great asset to the community.
Jason thanked both Linda and Dana.
Next was Alan Siewart, who works in the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Forestry Division.
Amy Janca had contacted him about trees, and Vic talked with him subsequently and arranged for Alan to speak at a meeting.
Alan: Vic had explained the importance of an urban canopy in your public spaces.
First, planting trees is like getting a pet. You just don't buy it and walk away. You need to pick the right one. Also, whether you want to retain the historic characteristics. Sugar maples are typical but in the event of an invasive species, you can lose them all. They need to be taken care of in the first two years by being watered and taking care of them. So my recommendation is that Vic and the volunteers put together a master plan that identifies who will do the watering and pruning. We conduct classes in that throughout the year.
When you plant a tree, you are taking responsibility for the next 80-100 years. I can advise and help the group to develop that plan. That is what I do for the state of Ohio.
Jason: What are your recommendations?
Alan: Green side up. The book in my office is about 200 pages. One question is what species. Other options are to diversify. But then you don't get the uniform look and you lose some of the historical continuity. I can share recommendations, but you are the ones to make the decisions. It is a planning process. For every site there are many decisions to make.
Vic: As we talked, we mentioned the life cycles of the trees and the hardier ones.
Alan: There are 150 species of trees that you can select. Life expectancy and functional time is part of that. Certain trees can can last for 100 years or more.
Blue spruces tend to do OK for 25 years and then they don't do so well. Those are things to take into account--not just what is pretty, but what is functional.
Jason: Do you have any examples of master plans or simple plans from other communities?
Alan: Yes. For the last 26 years I have worked with communities in Northeast Ohio. The one thing they have in common is that they are all different. [He dismissed the boiler plate approach of using a plan developed for another location.]
I can't do things that take into account personal taste and the community. We are talking about 3-4 inside meetings and 3-4 outside to pull it all together to present a master plan to this body for approval.
Vic asked if there were any questions.
Amy Janca: He mentioned oak, and I was thinking about that.
Vic: What surprised me was about the evergreen. That blue spruce [which is lit at Christmas] has taken off, but it is starting to slow down.
Alan: There are many communities that want a Christmas tree, and they grow too big. I suggest a staggered planting so that there is always a tree when the older one grows too big. Oaks are nice, but there are 16 different species. Knowing what you want in the end is like getting married. You have to talk to this person for a long time. You need to think about what your relationship with these trees is going to be.
Vic: Because of storms we have lost some of the sugar maples, and out here it is the same thing. He mentioned other examples as well.
Dave Pollard: Is something blue spruce?
Answer: Cytosporocain--this happens about 25 years in.
Dave also asked if there was anyting to the folklore that oak trees attract lightning.
Answer: No.
John Festa asked about the website.
OhioDNR.gov
Alan: Look up Forestry and then work your way to it. My phone number and resume are there also.
[He is situated at Punderson State Park.]
Vic: It has always been a big problem for the township but when we take one down and want to replant, then it is a aquestion of finances. We have lost 5 out here and 5 more in the cemetery.
Alan: You talk about a tree being 100 years old, we only need to plant one every year or every other year to maintain them. I recommend a few a year, not doing it all at once. At 5-10 trees per year for 10 years, you have 50 trees. Small, incremental, well organized steps. When you don't do it for 20 years, that becomes a problem.
Jason thanked him for coming.
Alan: When you get your committee together, give me a call.
Vic thanked Amy Janca for the information she gave him about Mr. Sieward.
[Blogger: That will do for this post. I thought it was valuable information that would help everyone understand the process and why it should be thoughtful and deliberate.]
Dana: I have been working with Linda and talking about the community building. She just gave me a tour. I am excited about being able to help out. Linda had submitted a grant application. The $1500 [can go to] the elevator project. Best of luck--this will be a great asset to the community.
Jason thanked both Linda and Dana.
Next was Alan Siewart, who works in the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Forestry Division.
Amy Janca had contacted him about trees, and Vic talked with him subsequently and arranged for Alan to speak at a meeting.
Alan: Vic had explained the importance of an urban canopy in your public spaces.
First, planting trees is like getting a pet. You just don't buy it and walk away. You need to pick the right one. Also, whether you want to retain the historic characteristics. Sugar maples are typical but in the event of an invasive species, you can lose them all. They need to be taken care of in the first two years by being watered and taking care of them. So my recommendation is that Vic and the volunteers put together a master plan that identifies who will do the watering and pruning. We conduct classes in that throughout the year.
When you plant a tree, you are taking responsibility for the next 80-100 years. I can advise and help the group to develop that plan. That is what I do for the state of Ohio.
Jason: What are your recommendations?
Alan: Green side up. The book in my office is about 200 pages. One question is what species. Other options are to diversify. But then you don't get the uniform look and you lose some of the historical continuity. I can share recommendations, but you are the ones to make the decisions. It is a planning process. For every site there are many decisions to make.
Vic: As we talked, we mentioned the life cycles of the trees and the hardier ones.
Alan: There are 150 species of trees that you can select. Life expectancy and functional time is part of that. Certain trees can can last for 100 years or more.
Blue spruces tend to do OK for 25 years and then they don't do so well. Those are things to take into account--not just what is pretty, but what is functional.
Jason: Do you have any examples of master plans or simple plans from other communities?
Alan: Yes. For the last 26 years I have worked with communities in Northeast Ohio. The one thing they have in common is that they are all different. [He dismissed the boiler plate approach of using a plan developed for another location.]
I can't do things that take into account personal taste and the community. We are talking about 3-4 inside meetings and 3-4 outside to pull it all together to present a master plan to this body for approval.
Vic asked if there were any questions.
Amy Janca: He mentioned oak, and I was thinking about that.
Vic: What surprised me was about the evergreen. That blue spruce [which is lit at Christmas] has taken off, but it is starting to slow down.
Alan: There are many communities that want a Christmas tree, and they grow too big. I suggest a staggered planting so that there is always a tree when the older one grows too big. Oaks are nice, but there are 16 different species. Knowing what you want in the end is like getting married. You have to talk to this person for a long time. You need to think about what your relationship with these trees is going to be.
Vic: Because of storms we have lost some of the sugar maples, and out here it is the same thing. He mentioned other examples as well.
Dave Pollard: Is something blue spruce?
Answer: Cytosporocain--this happens about 25 years in.
Dave also asked if there was anyting to the folklore that oak trees attract lightning.
Answer: No.
John Festa asked about the website.
OhioDNR.gov
Alan: Look up Forestry and then work your way to it. My phone number and resume are there also.
[He is situated at Punderson State Park.]
Vic: It has always been a big problem for the township but when we take one down and want to replant, then it is a aquestion of finances. We have lost 5 out here and 5 more in the cemetery.
Alan: You talk about a tree being 100 years old, we only need to plant one every year or every other year to maintain them. I recommend a few a year, not doing it all at once. At 5-10 trees per year for 10 years, you have 50 trees. Small, incremental, well organized steps. When you don't do it for 20 years, that becomes a problem.
Jason thanked him for coming.
Alan: When you get your committee together, give me a call.
Vic thanked Amy Janca for the information she gave him about Mr. Sieward.
[Blogger: That will do for this post. I thought it was valuable information that would help everyone understand the process and why it should be thoughtful and deliberate.]
A Brief Aside re Conflicr of Interest
Just a note: A year ago, when the township was applying for the Community Development Block Grant which gave us the funds to do an elevator, EVERYONE knew that Gable Elevator would not be a qualified bidder due to John Festa's being a Mantua Township trustee and an employee of Gable Elevator. Let me repeat:
EVERYONE
EVERYONE
Thursday, August 18, 2016
8-4-16 Trustees--Jan Oros, Dave PollardIt would seems, since your
[Blogger Foreword: Several speakers' remarks are less logical sounding in this blog post than they were in person. I thought the general purport was clear enough not to have to spend the disproportionate amount of time it would take to check a recording and get a comment verbatim. But if things sound a little scrambled, it was not the speaker.]]
At the end of my public remarks, Amy Janca began to leave. Jan Oros stopped her, saying that she wanted to ask some questions.
Jan: Are your meetings public meetings?
Amy: They are committee meetings. We have been soliciting for pledges and visiting people in the community.
Jan: I have not seen anything in the paper.
Amy: I have not been put anything in the paper until we have approval from the trustees.
Jan: My question is, is it a public meeting.
Amy: They are committee meetings. The next meeting was going to be set after this one. Usually they are every other Tuesday of the month.
Jan: Where do you hold them?
Amy: At a private residence.
[Blogger: I think Amy left at that point, and Jan continued to the trustees.]
Jan: No one has offered to do anything else with this project. I heard John Festa say that nobody comes to these meetings because they are satisfied. At my first meeting [I asked] "Why was the memorial not put in the bullpen?"
Jason: Because we wanted it there [on the green]. There were no safety issues.
Jan [I believe]: I was told no until Vic intervened, saying there had been. I had not heard it again until you mentioned them tonight. Until then a number of us had brought these up. It seems that you want to do it because you want to do it. None of those things are even being considered.
Nick Ehlert: Nick added, I would like to see [how] the money [is] being spent. I think you are opening the township for a lawsuit if someone gets hurt. [Blogger: I lost the next sentence.]
Continuing: The Nelson Circle would be lovely with an eagle [on a pillar]. But this is unsafe. Take a day off and sit here from 5:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m.
Jason: I will address that point specifically regarding safety. Anything we do there we have to address safety and what are we doing about it now. If we put a gazebo in there. . . .
Nick: If you put a gazebo there you are enhancing it [and encouraging people to go there]. I would feel guilty if I did not express my opinion.
Jason: All we can do is mitigate them. [Blogger: Two things here. First, the arguments that have been presented are because the risks will be increased, not mitigated, if this plan goes through. Second, I did not take down Jason's next comment, but my note is this: "Took refuge in his opinion." When Jason wants to dismiss something as of no consequence, he labels it opinion.]
Continuing: There are probably things we can do to mitigate the risk. These are really discussions that need to be had.
[Blogger: If that is true, then why is Jason not initiating and facilitating those discussions?]
Jan: I think everyone has treated Amy Janca and Barb Herbold with courtesy and respect and has listened to their remarks. But when I see the disrespect that was shown to Carole Pollard, I am ashamed to be part of this. [Blogger: Some of what Jan was referring to was deliberate noise while I was speaking. The rest has been noted in the blog.]
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: Nick and Carole have brought up my [thoughts] to some extent. It was unsafe for the memorial, but now it is safe as a park. This appears to be another cosmetic issue because it is not designed to be used. A park is supposed to be restful, calm, and serene. The berm at Rt. 82--the drawing specifically says that will be removed. For them to sit here and say it will not be removed, then they didn't look at it [the drawing]. Remove the berm and people will think it is a road again.
Jason: I disagree.
Dave: If you will recall, 3 or 4 or 5 parking spaces were not enough, and now they are ready to put in only two. The 99-foot dimension mentioned on this will put something clear out on 82. [Dave is talking about things that are noted on the drawings.] Also I have not seen anything on there for a porta-john. The other public buildings do not have any restrooms. If it is going to be a park, I would think the law would require a restroom.
[Note: At some point when it became clear that several of us who were raising questions had seen the drawings, John Festa asked, with apparent displeasure, how we knew that--it had been too dark to look at them at the last meeting. Jason told him that he had made extra copies, I believe, and I said, "We saw them earlier in the week." Once they got to the trustees meeting, they were public record and for them not to have been available to see would have violated open records law. That point still seems elusive for some of the people involved in this. But Jason did the right thing.]
Dave, to Jason: Jason, I want to compliment you on at least looking at the issues.
Dave, continuing: Has something been done on Old Frost?
Jodie Thompson: Audley Zuver graded it.
John Festa: What point were you trying to make about Frost?
Dave: I go over that road several times a week. The road was so rough that my baler came up in the air a couple of times.
John Festa: Are we supposed to do it every week?
Jason: Pick up the phone and give us a call before it becomes so bad and you bring it to a public meeting and make us look bad. [!]
Dave: I did--I talked to Vic.
Vic: I passed it on to Brian Tayerle. We passed it at the last meeting to Zuver.
Jason: We depend on residents to report things to us.
Dave: It would seem, since you are responsible for the roads, divide it up and each of you go up and down 13 miles of roads to check them. It took a while for that road to get so bad.
Bill Kelley: I see the special interest group pushing their agenda. But there is probably a group with a minimalist idea of beautification. There are two views of beautification. I will let it go at that.
[And that, dear reader, was that. And only 3-1/2 hours until the next joyful edition of these meetings.]
At the end of my public remarks, Amy Janca began to leave. Jan Oros stopped her, saying that she wanted to ask some questions.
Jan: Are your meetings public meetings?
Amy: They are committee meetings. We have been soliciting for pledges and visiting people in the community.
Jan: I have not seen anything in the paper.
Amy: I have not been put anything in the paper until we have approval from the trustees.
Jan: My question is, is it a public meeting.
Amy: They are committee meetings. The next meeting was going to be set after this one. Usually they are every other Tuesday of the month.
Jan: Where do you hold them?
Amy: At a private residence.
[Blogger: I think Amy left at that point, and Jan continued to the trustees.]
Jan: No one has offered to do anything else with this project. I heard John Festa say that nobody comes to these meetings because they are satisfied. At my first meeting [I asked] "Why was the memorial not put in the bullpen?"
Jason: Because we wanted it there [on the green]. There were no safety issues.
Jan [I believe]: I was told no until Vic intervened, saying there had been. I had not heard it again until you mentioned them tonight. Until then a number of us had brought these up. It seems that you want to do it because you want to do it. None of those things are even being considered.
Nick Ehlert: Nick added, I would like to see [how] the money [is] being spent. I think you are opening the township for a lawsuit if someone gets hurt. [Blogger: I lost the next sentence.]
Continuing: The Nelson Circle would be lovely with an eagle [on a pillar]. But this is unsafe. Take a day off and sit here from 5:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m.
Jason: I will address that point specifically regarding safety. Anything we do there we have to address safety and what are we doing about it now. If we put a gazebo in there. . . .
Nick: If you put a gazebo there you are enhancing it [and encouraging people to go there]. I would feel guilty if I did not express my opinion.
Jason: All we can do is mitigate them. [Blogger: Two things here. First, the arguments that have been presented are because the risks will be increased, not mitigated, if this plan goes through. Second, I did not take down Jason's next comment, but my note is this: "Took refuge in his opinion." When Jason wants to dismiss something as of no consequence, he labels it opinion.]
Continuing: There are probably things we can do to mitigate the risk. These are really discussions that need to be had.
[Blogger: If that is true, then why is Jason not initiating and facilitating those discussions?]
Jan: I think everyone has treated Amy Janca and Barb Herbold with courtesy and respect and has listened to their remarks. But when I see the disrespect that was shown to Carole Pollard, I am ashamed to be part of this. [Blogger: Some of what Jan was referring to was deliberate noise while I was speaking. The rest has been noted in the blog.]
Dave Pollard, S.R. 82: Nick and Carole have brought up my [thoughts] to some extent. It was unsafe for the memorial, but now it is safe as a park. This appears to be another cosmetic issue because it is not designed to be used. A park is supposed to be restful, calm, and serene. The berm at Rt. 82--the drawing specifically says that will be removed. For them to sit here and say it will not be removed, then they didn't look at it [the drawing]. Remove the berm and people will think it is a road again.
Jason: I disagree.
Dave: If you will recall, 3 or 4 or 5 parking spaces were not enough, and now they are ready to put in only two. The 99-foot dimension mentioned on this will put something clear out on 82. [Dave is talking about things that are noted on the drawings.] Also I have not seen anything on there for a porta-john. The other public buildings do not have any restrooms. If it is going to be a park, I would think the law would require a restroom.
[Note: At some point when it became clear that several of us who were raising questions had seen the drawings, John Festa asked, with apparent displeasure, how we knew that--it had been too dark to look at them at the last meeting. Jason told him that he had made extra copies, I believe, and I said, "We saw them earlier in the week." Once they got to the trustees meeting, they were public record and for them not to have been available to see would have violated open records law. That point still seems elusive for some of the people involved in this. But Jason did the right thing.]
Dave, to Jason: Jason, I want to compliment you on at least looking at the issues.
Dave, continuing: Has something been done on Old Frost?
Jodie Thompson: Audley Zuver graded it.
John Festa: What point were you trying to make about Frost?
Dave: I go over that road several times a week. The road was so rough that my baler came up in the air a couple of times.
John Festa: Are we supposed to do it every week?
Jason: Pick up the phone and give us a call before it becomes so bad and you bring it to a public meeting and make us look bad. [!]
Dave: I did--I talked to Vic.
Vic: I passed it on to Brian Tayerle. We passed it at the last meeting to Zuver.
Jason: We depend on residents to report things to us.
Dave: It would seem, since you are responsible for the roads, divide it up and each of you go up and down 13 miles of roads to check them. It took a while for that road to get so bad.
Bill Kelley: I see the special interest group pushing their agenda. But there is probably a group with a minimalist idea of beautification. There are two views of beautification. I will let it go at that.
[And that, dear reader, was that. And only 3-1/2 hours until the next joyful edition of these meetings.]
Wednesday, August 17, 2016
Public Comment, 8-4-16: C. Pollard
Carole Pollard, Allyn Road: I want to wholeheartedly support what Nick Ehlert said about safety. I think we don't have to talk any more about noise after the last meeting when the noise was deafening with the windows open on this [south] side.
I understand there are a lot of cars parked down there for a ball game. That is a simpler situation there. That is not the same thing as cars here. You have people coming down Diagonal Road and turning onto Diagonal, cars coming north [on Center] to the intersection, cars coming both directions off SR 82, [with some turning again onto Diagonal and some continuing south on Center]. This 250 feet is incredibly complex. Get past the south wall of East Lawn cemetery and it is much much simpler. People can only go two ways and you can see people going across the road. Everybody has things sorted out. You can see both ways. It isn't the same thing.
I would still like to ask you please formally [to have a discussion about this] and if you are not going to do it I would like to know why you are not going to do it. I think this is an important enough topic to have an actual formal discussion of alternatives and laying out plans.
Right now you are being asked in effect to approve a blank check. This plan is not a formal plan. There is no budget. Phil Derthick a number of years ago said that when they do a project at the church, the plan is set and they have to have a budget and the money in hand. (I think I can talk over a slamming door. [The door slammed I believe a couple of times as Barb Herbold left.] Told you.)
I think that if this is going to be [done] for the whole community more of the community than 7 or 8 or 10 people should be discussing it. There are formal ways to discuss it that will work things out. No alternatives have been suggested. Nick and Linda Ehlert are the first two people to suggest alternatives. I want to support Linda's comment that the community center is getting started and will be a reality. We are not going to go through all of this and lay out money for an intern just to go through an exercise and not follow up.
A good landscape plan in the bull pen would be very nice. The plantings don't seem to be cohesive enough. Without a gazebo it an be quite lovely as you drive by. It is not restful or spacious enough for a park. When parking is put in over there and it looks like a road again, you will have people coming through there and you will have real safety issues. You will have people spattered on Rt. 82. People will always find a way to do something dangerous. Pokemon is a good example.
No alternatives have been examined, and when alternatives are examined the results are always better than at the outset. The payoffs are in resolution of differences and we have not done that yet. This is the first step towards this, and it sounds ad if nothing is going to go beyond this.
I agree with the idea that if it is 1840 we need to keep that architectural style and I think that there is some suspicion that this has been designated by custom as a historic district. We had to have approval from the Ohio Historic Preservation Office for the installation of the elevator [at the school] so it would be in keeping with the historic nature of the area.
I was going to ask you want criteria you used getting excited about this. I understand your response last time. Even if you haven't examined your response, there has to be a set of criteria. Your gut knows what the criteria are, even if you haven't examined them. I want to ask you to do that because you are responsible for what goes on in the township.
So--are you going to?
Jason: the concern is the bullpen area. I have spoken on that and quite a few folks have talked about safety concerns and safety is the keystone [not the word Jason used, but it is the spirit of it] of everything we do here. No one is mentioning redesign or a beautification--people are interested in a gazebo in there. That is the centerpiece of the township. We are sitting in the center of the township. It needs s spruce-up and modifications. We have not heard from anyone about sprucing that up. We don't have money to do beautification efforts. I think this is an excellent idea.
Some excellent points about safety have been mentioned. The ball park is also a good idea. It has hardly been used. We have ball parks all over this township. We probably only need one. It would be nice in the future to beautify that area. Add additional parking. There are a lot of things that can be done.
The fact is that they have brought this idea before us. They have not talked about doing anything at the school. I don't think anyone has had bad ideas this evening. I think a lot of the ideas may be opinionated. Maybe someone has a better opinion about this. It is at no cost to the township.
Carole Pollard: At the moment.
Jason: All it has cost is mulch and the road crew trims the shrubs and picks up branches and trimmings. You are always going to have to mow the lawn. The beds will have to be maintained. The plans are reducing the foot;print of flower beds. They are saying it would be nice to have a gazebo over there. We are not talking about. . . . [[Blogger: I think Jason just trailed off here.]
CP: My question is why are we not talking about these alternative areas. I don't see that adding a gazebo and berms and bushes is a reduction and downsizing. Let me make one comment really clearly. Nobody said we shouldn't do this or not have the veterans memorial. It has always been "Is this the right place?" Do not ever again call us naysayers for questioning whether a place is the right place. That is all it has been.
[One of us said, you are always going to have noise.]
Jason: I think what you are getting at is that we are trying to push something through.
CP: Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Everything is still not final. What are you getting? You don't know.
Jason: We haven't really had an opportunity to review it. We have just received the plan of action. [Blogger: All of the trustees had the drawings as of the last meeting. The plan of action showed up at this one.]
Jason, continuing: We have not reviewed the plan of action.
CP: How is this gazebo going to be constructed? I would like to hear a description of the materials and construction.
Blogger: Jason started to say something, I think, and then Amy interjected, "Mr. Horack intended to be here."
CP: Are the posts going to be concealed --
Amy--They are going to be embedded --
CP: Let me finish my question. Are they going to be concealed?
Amy: They are going to be vinyl shielded.
CP: So we are going to have a plastic gazebo. We might as well have plastic flowers.
Jason: Next. And called on the next person for public comment. [Blogger: To be honest, I would probably have done the same thing in his shoes.]
[Blogger: This post is long enough. I will make a strong effort to finish the blog for this meeting tomorrow. I really don't want to be posting the 8-4 meeting after we have had the 8-18 meeting.]
I understand there are a lot of cars parked down there for a ball game. That is a simpler situation there. That is not the same thing as cars here. You have people coming down Diagonal Road and turning onto Diagonal, cars coming north [on Center] to the intersection, cars coming both directions off SR 82, [with some turning again onto Diagonal and some continuing south on Center]. This 250 feet is incredibly complex. Get past the south wall of East Lawn cemetery and it is much much simpler. People can only go two ways and you can see people going across the road. Everybody has things sorted out. You can see both ways. It isn't the same thing.
I would still like to ask you please formally [to have a discussion about this] and if you are not going to do it I would like to know why you are not going to do it. I think this is an important enough topic to have an actual formal discussion of alternatives and laying out plans.
Right now you are being asked in effect to approve a blank check. This plan is not a formal plan. There is no budget. Phil Derthick a number of years ago said that when they do a project at the church, the plan is set and they have to have a budget and the money in hand. (I think I can talk over a slamming door. [The door slammed I believe a couple of times as Barb Herbold left.] Told you.)
I think that if this is going to be [done] for the whole community more of the community than 7 or 8 or 10 people should be discussing it. There are formal ways to discuss it that will work things out. No alternatives have been suggested. Nick and Linda Ehlert are the first two people to suggest alternatives. I want to support Linda's comment that the community center is getting started and will be a reality. We are not going to go through all of this and lay out money for an intern just to go through an exercise and not follow up.
A good landscape plan in the bull pen would be very nice. The plantings don't seem to be cohesive enough. Without a gazebo it an be quite lovely as you drive by. It is not restful or spacious enough for a park. When parking is put in over there and it looks like a road again, you will have people coming through there and you will have real safety issues. You will have people spattered on Rt. 82. People will always find a way to do something dangerous. Pokemon is a good example.
No alternatives have been examined, and when alternatives are examined the results are always better than at the outset. The payoffs are in resolution of differences and we have not done that yet. This is the first step towards this, and it sounds ad if nothing is going to go beyond this.
I agree with the idea that if it is 1840 we need to keep that architectural style and I think that there is some suspicion that this has been designated by custom as a historic district. We had to have approval from the Ohio Historic Preservation Office for the installation of the elevator [at the school] so it would be in keeping with the historic nature of the area.
I was going to ask you want criteria you used getting excited about this. I understand your response last time. Even if you haven't examined your response, there has to be a set of criteria. Your gut knows what the criteria are, even if you haven't examined them. I want to ask you to do that because you are responsible for what goes on in the township.
So--are you going to?
Jason: the concern is the bullpen area. I have spoken on that and quite a few folks have talked about safety concerns and safety is the keystone [not the word Jason used, but it is the spirit of it] of everything we do here. No one is mentioning redesign or a beautification--people are interested in a gazebo in there. That is the centerpiece of the township. We are sitting in the center of the township. It needs s spruce-up and modifications. We have not heard from anyone about sprucing that up. We don't have money to do beautification efforts. I think this is an excellent idea.
Some excellent points about safety have been mentioned. The ball park is also a good idea. It has hardly been used. We have ball parks all over this township. We probably only need one. It would be nice in the future to beautify that area. Add additional parking. There are a lot of things that can be done.
The fact is that they have brought this idea before us. They have not talked about doing anything at the school. I don't think anyone has had bad ideas this evening. I think a lot of the ideas may be opinionated. Maybe someone has a better opinion about this. It is at no cost to the township.
Carole Pollard: At the moment.
Jason: All it has cost is mulch and the road crew trims the shrubs and picks up branches and trimmings. You are always going to have to mow the lawn. The beds will have to be maintained. The plans are reducing the foot;print of flower beds. They are saying it would be nice to have a gazebo over there. We are not talking about. . . . [[Blogger: I think Jason just trailed off here.]
CP: My question is why are we not talking about these alternative areas. I don't see that adding a gazebo and berms and bushes is a reduction and downsizing. Let me make one comment really clearly. Nobody said we shouldn't do this or not have the veterans memorial. It has always been "Is this the right place?" Do not ever again call us naysayers for questioning whether a place is the right place. That is all it has been.
[One of us said, you are always going to have noise.]
Jason: I think what you are getting at is that we are trying to push something through.
CP: Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Everything is still not final. What are you getting? You don't know.
Jason: We haven't really had an opportunity to review it. We have just received the plan of action. [Blogger: All of the trustees had the drawings as of the last meeting. The plan of action showed up at this one.]
Jason, continuing: We have not reviewed the plan of action.
CP: How is this gazebo going to be constructed? I would like to hear a description of the materials and construction.
Blogger: Jason started to say something, I think, and then Amy interjected, "Mr. Horack intended to be here."
CP: Are the posts going to be concealed --
Amy--They are going to be embedded --
CP: Let me finish my question. Are they going to be concealed?
Amy: They are going to be vinyl shielded.
CP: So we are going to have a plastic gazebo. We might as well have plastic flowers.
Jason: Next. And called on the next person for public comment. [Blogger: To be honest, I would probably have done the same thing in his shoes.]
[Blogger: This post is long enough. I will make a strong effort to finish the blog for this meeting tomorrow. I really don't want to be posting the 8-4 meeting after we have had the 8-18 meeting.]
Tuesday, August 16, 2016
Trustees 8-4: Odds & Ends, then Public Comment
[Blogger Foreword: Like many blog posts, this one is not a court reporter's transcript. It is close enough, and if anyone wants it absolutely verbatim, there is a video recording on the township website.]
After John Festa's performance, Vic brought up something about correspondence relating apparently to a lawsuit. Since I had none of that and therefore it made little sense to me, although it did to the trustees and fiscal officer, I am going to skip it.
John Festa to Mary Ann Weber (about the house at the bull pen): Are you pursuing anything else on your surveys?
Mary Ann: Your blogger lost that answer because my mind shifted momentarily to something else.
John Festa clarified that there would be something about this in two weeks.
Mary Ann: The previous survey was done in the 70's and no one accepts those. The new survey will be $600-$750. Extra research is necessary to see how the property line got to be where it is.
Jason recommended talking with Beth Pierson (sp?) and Mary Ann said she had spoken with Beth's husband.
Public Comment began at 8:50.
Sue Skrovan and Amy Janca had nothing more.
Nick Ehlert said he had already covered everything on his mind.
Linda Ehlert, Mantua Center Road: I wanted to say that I agree with a lot f things Nick said earlier. There are hundreds of trucks coming down this road. A lot of people fly down Diagonal Road. I am concerned about anything that will draw more people. The ball field or Mantua Center School would be better. I can see our doing the landscaping there. [Blogger: Not sure whether the reference is to the bull pen or the school. The Mantua Center School community center is moving forward and a park would be better there. There is more privacy and [it is] safer.
Vic, to Linda: Do you want to touch on Dana Heffner?
Linda: I am on the funding committee and we were able to get another $1500 from Dana Heffner (First Energy). If you could put her on the agenda at the next meeting, because she is coming from Akron. I hope we can show her the school also and I hope we can talk her into providing more money if we can get her excited about the school.
Jason: I met Dana at a few things. She is a member of the Portage County Township Association.
Bill Kelley, School Lane: This is School Lane Part 2. You will see why I brought up the issues earlier. Having lived where we do, I have been able to witness every election since then. I want to make comments on traffic flow and maybe easing parking. If we maintain a north-south flow on School Lane, rather than one way, which causes confusion. This is why I brought up the 40 foot width. My suggestion is, no parking on School Lane North so they can get into the school with the south lane being an exit. The rest of the property south may be partly owned by the township. We have a 16' road and 40' road. [Put] signage at both sides of the road and there can be more parking south of the cyclone fence and parking on the grass can be allowed the way it is for the county fair, for example.
We have at least 20 parking spaces. You would not be that close to the stop sign on the south end. Someone headed north, they just have to pull into the space. You can also advertise a month ahead of election time--I think we can facilitate the traffic flow and parking. What I saw today when I did the measurements, if we actually own more than you can see we can add more parking. If that property belongs to the community, we can get as many as 24-26 cars. The election is coming and it will be busy.
Jason: The Board of Elections runs the whole thing. We can put up some signage and work with them, but they take most of the control.
Vic: If you don't mind, Bill,one of our residents works at the Board of Elections. You could show her.
Bill: I am terribly concerned after watching what has occurred.
Amy Janca undertook to explain to Bill how the elections work, she having been a poll worker.
I was next in public comment. At this point, I have listened to the recording of my remarks and have taken the best notes I intend to take of them--not a transcript, but I believe accurate as to spirit and content. I may have spoken for as many as 8 minutes. It took a half hour of feverish writing, stopping, backing up, and writing again to take the notes that I will transcribe--and they are not every word. There is enough to warrant its own post, and there were a couple of speakers after that. They went into some detail also, and I consider it valuable. This is once when finishing the previous meeting may not occur until after the next one, oh joy. I am no longer willing to spend most of every day for a number of days on this blog and have tried to do it in reasonable chunks. There's a saying that four inches is close enough for road work. And, in my opinion, for the blog. Stay tuned.
After John Festa's performance, Vic brought up something about correspondence relating apparently to a lawsuit. Since I had none of that and therefore it made little sense to me, although it did to the trustees and fiscal officer, I am going to skip it.
John Festa to Mary Ann Weber (about the house at the bull pen): Are you pursuing anything else on your surveys?
Mary Ann: Your blogger lost that answer because my mind shifted momentarily to something else.
John Festa clarified that there would be something about this in two weeks.
Mary Ann: The previous survey was done in the 70's and no one accepts those. The new survey will be $600-$750. Extra research is necessary to see how the property line got to be where it is.
Jason recommended talking with Beth Pierson (sp?) and Mary Ann said she had spoken with Beth's husband.
Public Comment began at 8:50.
Sue Skrovan and Amy Janca had nothing more.
Nick Ehlert said he had already covered everything on his mind.
Linda Ehlert, Mantua Center Road: I wanted to say that I agree with a lot f things Nick said earlier. There are hundreds of trucks coming down this road. A lot of people fly down Diagonal Road. I am concerned about anything that will draw more people. The ball field or Mantua Center School would be better. I can see our doing the landscaping there. [Blogger: Not sure whether the reference is to the bull pen or the school. The Mantua Center School community center is moving forward and a park would be better there. There is more privacy and [it is] safer.
Vic, to Linda: Do you want to touch on Dana Heffner?
Linda: I am on the funding committee and we were able to get another $1500 from Dana Heffner (First Energy). If you could put her on the agenda at the next meeting, because she is coming from Akron. I hope we can show her the school also and I hope we can talk her into providing more money if we can get her excited about the school.
Jason: I met Dana at a few things. She is a member of the Portage County Township Association.
Bill Kelley, School Lane: This is School Lane Part 2. You will see why I brought up the issues earlier. Having lived where we do, I have been able to witness every election since then. I want to make comments on traffic flow and maybe easing parking. If we maintain a north-south flow on School Lane, rather than one way, which causes confusion. This is why I brought up the 40 foot width. My suggestion is, no parking on School Lane North so they can get into the school with the south lane being an exit. The rest of the property south may be partly owned by the township. We have a 16' road and 40' road. [Put] signage at both sides of the road and there can be more parking south of the cyclone fence and parking on the grass can be allowed the way it is for the county fair, for example.
We have at least 20 parking spaces. You would not be that close to the stop sign on the south end. Someone headed north, they just have to pull into the space. You can also advertise a month ahead of election time--I think we can facilitate the traffic flow and parking. What I saw today when I did the measurements, if we actually own more than you can see we can add more parking. If that property belongs to the community, we can get as many as 24-26 cars. The election is coming and it will be busy.
Jason: The Board of Elections runs the whole thing. We can put up some signage and work with them, but they take most of the control.
Vic: If you don't mind, Bill,one of our residents works at the Board of Elections. You could show her.
Bill: I am terribly concerned after watching what has occurred.
Amy Janca undertook to explain to Bill how the elections work, she having been a poll worker.
I was next in public comment. At this point, I have listened to the recording of my remarks and have taken the best notes I intend to take of them--not a transcript, but I believe accurate as to spirit and content. I may have spoken for as many as 8 minutes. It took a half hour of feverish writing, stopping, backing up, and writing again to take the notes that I will transcribe--and they are not every word. There is enough to warrant its own post, and there were a couple of speakers after that. They went into some detail also, and I consider it valuable. This is once when finishing the previous meeting may not occur until after the next one, oh joy. I am no longer willing to spend most of every day for a number of days on this blog and have tried to do it in reasonable chunks. There's a saying that four inches is close enough for road work. And, in my opinion, for the blog. Stay tuned.
Sunday, August 14, 2016
Trustees 8-4-16: John Festa & Elevator Project
[Blogger Foreword: This is a promise to you, dear reader, that I will reserve all editorial comment on the contents of this post until the end and will then be as restrained as possible..]
Trustee Reports, New Business
John Festa: I have to take a while. It has to do with the elevator project. Everyone knows the bids were opened last Friday. Our company [Gable] was the low bidder for the elevator. I asked Mr. Francis if he had a copy of the bid book--he is at Gable. On page B4 of the instructions to bidders:
"Interest of Local Public Officials"--No public official who exercises any responsibility shall have any personal financial interest direct or indirect. The contractor will take appropriate steps to assure compliance.
"Conflict of Interest" F2 states the same thing. No member of the governing body who exercises any function or responsibility shall have any personal financial interest in the contract. [Note: Those two little paragraphs were read from the bid book.]
JF: When I read this my first thought was to ask Chris Meduri about it.
[Blogger: The following is Chris Meduri's response: If no Mantua Township moneys are going to be used and if the contractor for which you are privately employed [I think I lost a word there], then there would not be a conflict of interest. As a further safeguard I suggest that you not vote on any matter regarding this project and also abstain from signing anything.
JF: The key word is Mantua Township money. I told Chris that.
Continuing: The second e-mail from Chris Meduri: If Mantua Township moneys are going to be used, then based on the State Attorney General opinion, it would fall within the code and I would not be able to suggest or recommend that the township proceed with the contract. If township funds will be paid to the contractor there does seem to be a conflict.
JF: The third e-mail from Chris Meduri: The Ohio Attorney General's opinion would apply to the situation. The opinion might seem harsh and might result in more money being spend and awarded to the next lowest bidder.
Vic: Will Gable be installing the elevator?
Answer: Yes.
Vic: But you are supplying your contractor to the general.
JF: The township will be signing the document.
Jason: The money that we received from the commissioners. Do we have--we designated $10,000 for the project. We could choose to spend that money on the electrical.
Vic: The general [contractor] bid on the elevator but not on the electrical.
JF: There is an air of improper procedure. [!] It is enough for me to say that Gable Elevator will pull their proposal. I spoke to Hal Stamm and i think what we will do is ask Canton Elevator , which [usually] does not bid in Northeast Ohio. They have their own installation tech [?] which works at prevailing wage. They will give it to us at the same cost if we ask them. I feel that because of the air that this gives and the ORC, I do not think it would be wise to follow this process. It does not sayu it will delay anything.
We need to be conscious of what we do. Nothing will change with quality of work or product.
I was hoping that there would be more than one bidder but it did not turn out that way.
Vic: There were only two bidders, one for the general contract and one for electrical.
Dave Pollard: I did not hear your response to Jason's question about the $10,000 from the township.
JF: I am trying to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I will definitely be speaking with Chris Meduri more on this.
[Blogger: Months ago, Lisa Reeves, who handles the CDBG grants at Regional Planning, told me that Gable could not bid on this because of the obvious conflict of interest. This is not John Festa's or Mr. Francis' first rodeo. The time to head off any appearance of impropriety was before the fact, not after. The bid book should have been reviewed BEFORE the bid was made, in which case it would not have been made.
This whole performance stretches credulity and credibility to the thickness of GladWrap.
To repeat something I have said on occasion in the past: Can you spell spin, boys and girls? Or recognize Cover Your Donkey when you see it?]
That's all for this post. I have "enjoyed" as much of this as I can stand for the moment.
Trustee Reports, New Business
John Festa: I have to take a while. It has to do with the elevator project. Everyone knows the bids were opened last Friday. Our company [Gable] was the low bidder for the elevator. I asked Mr. Francis if he had a copy of the bid book--he is at Gable. On page B4 of the instructions to bidders:
"Interest of Local Public Officials"--No public official who exercises any responsibility shall have any personal financial interest direct or indirect. The contractor will take appropriate steps to assure compliance.
"Conflict of Interest" F2 states the same thing. No member of the governing body who exercises any function or responsibility shall have any personal financial interest in the contract. [Note: Those two little paragraphs were read from the bid book.]
JF: When I read this my first thought was to ask Chris Meduri about it.
[Blogger: The following is Chris Meduri's response: If no Mantua Township moneys are going to be used and if the contractor for which you are privately employed [I think I lost a word there], then there would not be a conflict of interest. As a further safeguard I suggest that you not vote on any matter regarding this project and also abstain from signing anything.
JF: The key word is Mantua Township money. I told Chris that.
Continuing: The second e-mail from Chris Meduri: If Mantua Township moneys are going to be used, then based on the State Attorney General opinion, it would fall within the code and I would not be able to suggest or recommend that the township proceed with the contract. If township funds will be paid to the contractor there does seem to be a conflict.
JF: The third e-mail from Chris Meduri: The Ohio Attorney General's opinion would apply to the situation. The opinion might seem harsh and might result in more money being spend and awarded to the next lowest bidder.
Vic: Will Gable be installing the elevator?
Answer: Yes.
Vic: But you are supplying your contractor to the general.
JF: The township will be signing the document.
Jason: The money that we received from the commissioners. Do we have--we designated $10,000 for the project. We could choose to spend that money on the electrical.
Vic: The general [contractor] bid on the elevator but not on the electrical.
JF: There is an air of improper procedure. [!] It is enough for me to say that Gable Elevator will pull their proposal. I spoke to Hal Stamm and i think what we will do is ask Canton Elevator , which [usually] does not bid in Northeast Ohio. They have their own installation tech [?] which works at prevailing wage. They will give it to us at the same cost if we ask them. I feel that because of the air that this gives and the ORC, I do not think it would be wise to follow this process. It does not sayu it will delay anything.
We need to be conscious of what we do. Nothing will change with quality of work or product.
I was hoping that there would be more than one bidder but it did not turn out that way.
Vic: There were only two bidders, one for the general contract and one for electrical.
Dave Pollard: I did not hear your response to Jason's question about the $10,000 from the township.
JF: I am trying to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I will definitely be speaking with Chris Meduri more on this.
[Blogger: Months ago, Lisa Reeves, who handles the CDBG grants at Regional Planning, told me that Gable could not bid on this because of the obvious conflict of interest. This is not John Festa's or Mr. Francis' first rodeo. The time to head off any appearance of impropriety was before the fact, not after. The bid book should have been reviewed BEFORE the bid was made, in which case it would not have been made.
This whole performance stretches credulity and credibility to the thickness of GladWrap.
To repeat something I have said on occasion in the past: Can you spell spin, boys and girls? Or recognize Cover Your Donkey when you see it?]
That's all for this post. I have "enjoyed" as much of this as I can stand for the moment.
Thursday, August 11, 2016
Trustees 8-4: Nick Ehlert to Deaf Ears
Nick Ehlert spoke after Amy Janca's last comment. Nick's basic premise is that you can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar, and while your faithful blogger knows that is completely true, my cynical retort is, "Who wants to catch flies?" But I respect Nick's diplomacy a lot.
Nick: First, let me thank you [to Amy, Barb, and Jim] for the work you have done on the veterans' memorial. My concerns are, however, [missed a word] my wife and I wanted it to go into the bullpen and she had a heart attack. But we decided it was unsafe.
[Blogger: At about the time Linda had that heart attack, the push for a veterans memorial stopped. But up to that point the bullpen was the first and perhaps only location being considered.]
Nick: If it was useful then, why is it OK now? I have seen people planning ????. I understand that there will be a berm or something with stones on top.
Amy: Landscaping boulders covered with topsoil.
Nick: I believe you can not have a rural mailbox built on a bottom that will not break away. Who will be liable?
Continuing: I am all in favor of this, but this is a very busy corner. I live on this road. It starts at 5:30a.m. and goes until evening. The original argument was that the bullpen was unsafe.
The ball park farther east has been underused all year. It would be safer and with less noise. What will it be used for? Band concerts? [Blogger: I believe that question refers to the bullpen.]
Amy: Perhaps.
Nick: If you find that [ball field? bullpen?] unacceptable, I want to suggest the west side of the school. This location is just too noisy. I hope this goes forward, but either location will be a fresh start that does not require tearing anything out.
I am a preservationist and I give money to many preservation groups. Would it not e better if the ramp [on the Civic Center] was removed and the front doors removed and redone?
Hilltop Church has a ramp that goes up on the outside. Preserve the building. Lets get rid of these lights and this pole with the light on it. Let us bury the wires and put up a 19th century-style pole.
I am worried about the location and liability. I stress that it was unsafe and it is OK now--that would make a good point.
John Festa: Perhaps all three of those would be good locations.
Nick: Wouldn't it be great if we had a 4th of July concert?
Amy: I am addressing a maintenance issue with that piece of property.
[Blogger: In the past several years, the Garden Club has been both overtly and subtly blamed and criticized for the "deplorable" condition of the bullpen.
[First, the weeds and thistles came in when a troublesome member got "cheap" mulch--which apparently harbored a trove of weed seeds.
[Second, Sue Skrovan has said more than once that the Garden Club was trying to handle the maintenance without taking the road crew away from their primary work. And I should add that the member who brought in the bad mulch was also unpleasant enough to cause a number of people either to drop out or to decide not to join. So the Garden Club had fewer resources in two ways.
[Third, the beautification committee, or whatever the nom du jour is, has gotten every courtesy from the trustees and I believe more help than the Garden Club ever got.
[Finally, the Garden Club several times identified trees that needed to be pruned or dealt with. Nothing in response--except to criticize how things look.]
Jason: You have some valid concerns. Safety is a primary concern. [But watch what happens as things continue.] John Festa is in the elevator business and probably goes to more safety meetings than all of us combined. Anybody doing maintenance is parking on Diagonal Road or here. The space is rarely being used. [Logic? Connections here elude me.]
Nick: There are probably a lot of other nice locations but if you try to have a band concert there, you will not be able to hear the music.
John Festa: We still need that place to show the civic pride we have and [to be] maintained.
Amy: We have a shelter in mind in the ball park--we are just getting started. [Blogger's emphasis]
Nick: Just so you know that is a potential lawsuit. [The bullpen]
Vic: The first berm was going to be 5-6 feet high. The county engineer came and looked. They would prefer to see something . . . . It is a legal lawsuit, if you put an obstruction in the way. The county says put up a split rail fence that will break away, for example.
Berms--[the first one was] too high and it blocks the view. If it is too low, it becomes a launching ramp. A lot has been looked into. One thing is the safety concerns.
The other is maintaining our atmosphere. This started with downsizing and putting it into grass.
Nick: I think gazebos did not exist before 1860. These are things you need to think about. You are talking about an 1860's structure on an 1840 green. I love this area. Two of the houses south on Center Road were built by brothers who wanted to live next to each other. You have a fabulous treasure that needs to be preserved.
Jason: I think you should move forward. There are a couple of trees that need to be removed.
Sue Skrovan: To that point: The Garden Club has never been responsible for removing tree. That is
up to the township. Whether a gazebo goes in or not, the trees need to be addressed.
[My notes here say "Amy Janca just keeps on talking and talking and talking."]
Vic: The maple tree at the front of the bullpen is in bad shape and needs to come down. Also probably the two crab apple trees. They only live so long.
Amy: All of those issues can be addressed as we go.
Vic: All of this came up as this was expanded and my question all along was, "Who will maintain it?" A landscape architect helped design it.
Amy: We have volunteers that want to come and get started. Two landscapers [Blogger: They do the work. Who is going to design this wonder?] looked at the rhododendrons [and think] they would not survive being dug up.
Vic: All of the trees are in the wires now.
Amy: If we can have volunteers with their own equipment . . . .
Jason: That needs to be done anyway. Could you focus on cleaning up some of the beds? We can review these plans and at the next meeting talk with the tree guy.
Sue Skrovan: About having volunteers come in to cut trees and bring equipment in--they need to have insurance.
Vic: Volunteers--if you are going to bring in a backhoe, that person would need to be covered [by his own insurance, is your blogger's interpretation of that point.]
Amy: Thank you for the opportunity to begin clearing. We will have some nice dry weather.
Trustees Reports came next. That's all for this post.
Nick: First, let me thank you [to Amy, Barb, and Jim] for the work you have done on the veterans' memorial. My concerns are, however, [missed a word] my wife and I wanted it to go into the bullpen and she had a heart attack. But we decided it was unsafe.
[Blogger: At about the time Linda had that heart attack, the push for a veterans memorial stopped. But up to that point the bullpen was the first and perhaps only location being considered.]
Nick: If it was useful then, why is it OK now? I have seen people planning ????. I understand that there will be a berm or something with stones on top.
Amy: Landscaping boulders covered with topsoil.
Nick: I believe you can not have a rural mailbox built on a bottom that will not break away. Who will be liable?
Continuing: I am all in favor of this, but this is a very busy corner. I live on this road. It starts at 5:30a.m. and goes until evening. The original argument was that the bullpen was unsafe.
The ball park farther east has been underused all year. It would be safer and with less noise. What will it be used for? Band concerts? [Blogger: I believe that question refers to the bullpen.]
Amy: Perhaps.
Nick: If you find that [ball field? bullpen?] unacceptable, I want to suggest the west side of the school. This location is just too noisy. I hope this goes forward, but either location will be a fresh start that does not require tearing anything out.
I am a preservationist and I give money to many preservation groups. Would it not e better if the ramp [on the Civic Center] was removed and the front doors removed and redone?
Hilltop Church has a ramp that goes up on the outside. Preserve the building. Lets get rid of these lights and this pole with the light on it. Let us bury the wires and put up a 19th century-style pole.
I am worried about the location and liability. I stress that it was unsafe and it is OK now--that would make a good point.
John Festa: Perhaps all three of those would be good locations.
Nick: Wouldn't it be great if we had a 4th of July concert?
Amy: I am addressing a maintenance issue with that piece of property.
[Blogger: In the past several years, the Garden Club has been both overtly and subtly blamed and criticized for the "deplorable" condition of the bullpen.
[First, the weeds and thistles came in when a troublesome member got "cheap" mulch--which apparently harbored a trove of weed seeds.
[Second, Sue Skrovan has said more than once that the Garden Club was trying to handle the maintenance without taking the road crew away from their primary work. And I should add that the member who brought in the bad mulch was also unpleasant enough to cause a number of people either to drop out or to decide not to join. So the Garden Club had fewer resources in two ways.
[Third, the beautification committee, or whatever the nom du jour is, has gotten every courtesy from the trustees and I believe more help than the Garden Club ever got.
[Finally, the Garden Club several times identified trees that needed to be pruned or dealt with. Nothing in response--except to criticize how things look.]
Jason: You have some valid concerns. Safety is a primary concern. [But watch what happens as things continue.] John Festa is in the elevator business and probably goes to more safety meetings than all of us combined. Anybody doing maintenance is parking on Diagonal Road or here. The space is rarely being used. [Logic? Connections here elude me.]
Nick: There are probably a lot of other nice locations but if you try to have a band concert there, you will not be able to hear the music.
John Festa: We still need that place to show the civic pride we have and [to be] maintained.
Amy: We have a shelter in mind in the ball park--we are just getting started. [Blogger's emphasis]
Nick: Just so you know that is a potential lawsuit. [The bullpen]
Vic: The first berm was going to be 5-6 feet high. The county engineer came and looked. They would prefer to see something . . . . It is a legal lawsuit, if you put an obstruction in the way. The county says put up a split rail fence that will break away, for example.
Berms--[the first one was] too high and it blocks the view. If it is too low, it becomes a launching ramp. A lot has been looked into. One thing is the safety concerns.
The other is maintaining our atmosphere. This started with downsizing and putting it into grass.
Nick: I think gazebos did not exist before 1860. These are things you need to think about. You are talking about an 1860's structure on an 1840 green. I love this area. Two of the houses south on Center Road were built by brothers who wanted to live next to each other. You have a fabulous treasure that needs to be preserved.
Jason: I think you should move forward. There are a couple of trees that need to be removed.
Sue Skrovan: To that point: The Garden Club has never been responsible for removing tree. That is
up to the township. Whether a gazebo goes in or not, the trees need to be addressed.
[My notes here say "Amy Janca just keeps on talking and talking and talking."]
Vic: The maple tree at the front of the bullpen is in bad shape and needs to come down. Also probably the two crab apple trees. They only live so long.
Amy: All of those issues can be addressed as we go.
Vic: All of this came up as this was expanded and my question all along was, "Who will maintain it?" A landscape architect helped design it.
Amy: We have volunteers that want to come and get started. Two landscapers [Blogger: They do the work. Who is going to design this wonder?] looked at the rhododendrons [and think] they would not survive being dug up.
Vic: All of the trees are in the wires now.
Amy: If we can have volunteers with their own equipment . . . .
Jason: That needs to be done anyway. Could you focus on cleaning up some of the beds? We can review these plans and at the next meeting talk with the tree guy.
Sue Skrovan: About having volunteers come in to cut trees and bring equipment in--they need to have insurance.
Vic: Volunteers--if you are going to bring in a backhoe, that person would need to be covered [by his own insurance, is your blogger's interpretation of that point.]
Amy: Thank you for the opportunity to begin clearing. We will have some nice dry weather.
Trustees Reports came next. That's all for this post.
Tuesday, August 9, 2016
And now for the spin cycle, re bull pen
[Foreword: This post begins right after Mary Ann Weber said that people still cut through their front yard, even though it was blocked as a road more than seven years ago.]
Vic: On the drawing there was something about removing the mound. I don't now why it has to be removed.
Nick Ehlert asked if he could comment.
Jason: Hold that to public comment. Anything more?
Jim Aldrich: [The drawing] is ready for your review. Frank Horack could not be here tonight but pointed out something about lines on a pole. [Blogger: I think I missed part of this. Or Jim was referring to something that was thought to be perfectly clear to everyone.]
Vic: The structure--do you need a permit for that?
JA: I assume they would want something. Frank Horack has had the drawing down there [building dept.] for several weeks but the guy is always out.
Amy: We also had to be sure we cleared it with Mr. Dickey before the county issued it.
Vic: There are some questions about the construction of it. I wondered if it was going to be reviewed by the building department.
Jason: Anything put on township grounds has to be reviewed.
Vic: One of the biggest things is trying to maintain the Western Reserve atmosphere.
Amy: That is why we styled it . . . . [Trailed off.]
Vic: The plantings--pine trees. [Pine trees and evergreens were not 1800's landscaping plants.]
Amy: Just on the western border. It would be a windbreak.
Vic: I am trying to have the man from the forestry [come to a meeting].
Amy: Even the plantings were just suggestions made within a committee.
Vic: It started out as downsizing.
[Vic was not done, but Amy continued talking.] Amy: That was why we thought across the top [of the berm, I believe] with bushes that would stay green. A deciduous bush is not necessarily pretty. It is so early in the stages that we will be lucky to get things cleared for the base of the gazebo. Plantings will probably not be until next spring.
Jason: You guys have came [sic] to us in the past and folks who were involved in painting the building inside. This is the same group that added things in the kitchen.
[Well, not quite. That group included Larry Leitzow, Dan Cozzens, and several others. I'm not sure how big a role Amy, Barb, and Jim played in that.]
Jason, continuing: This is the group that did the veterans' memorial. That has not cost the township anything other than maintenance.
[Blogger: Wrong. Our insurance changed, and there is a monthly additional cost on the electricity bill. "No cost" for it to be created is accurate. But there is a cost subsequently. Maintenance is by the road crew or the lawn care company, so there is a cost Although it may not be huge, it is not chicken feed, either.]
Jason, continuing: You guys have done stellar work in the community. [Eh?]
Vic: The name has been changed to the Beautification Committee. I see that you have officers. Are you going to maintain minutes and open a bank account? Do you have to file that with the State?
Amy: We are a tax exempt charitable organization.
Vic: That has been filed with the State?
Amy: Yes. The bank has the appropriate numbers.
John Festa: You care to share what you have collected?
Amy: Just under $5,000 in seed money. We have pledges from the Brugmanns for sand and gravel. Stamm has given us their pledge for concrete. OK Brugmann will give us a deal on the rebar. I have a ton of volunteer crews wanting to know when they can tome to do what needs to be done.
John Festa: Any group that comes in front of the trustees with a plan that will benefit the township, it will always be granted. The trustees are always eager to agree to whatever any group would like to do for the community. You have a proven record. For you to do all of this out of the goodness of your hearts you have my backing. I am hoping for all the best to you and your group. My phone is always open.
[Blogger: This from the man who tried to remove the restoration society's sign for its first harvest dinner because the sign did not fit with the trustees' beliefs, whatever that meant. I don't see anything particularly religious, political, or philosophical about a sign announcing a potluck dinner in the school building--which the restoration society was renting for the event.]
JF, continuing: One more thing--I have some issue with your plan--will we need all that parking space? Would two be sufficient?
Amy: We could do as much or as little as needed. [Remember that when the veterans' memorial was being discussed, the space at the bull pen was rejected partly because there was not enough parking space. The drawing shows at least four, if I remember correctly.]
Barb Herbold (a committee member but not an officer): We may need to have handicapped. [Blogger: That was another sticking point about the bull pen when the memorial was being pitched to the trustees. The bull pen was somehow unsuitable for handicapped parking then. Apparently a magic wand has been brandished.]
Jason: Let's review this. You obviously have questions out with the building department.
Amy: We had hoped to have a resolution to let us begin. We know the permits have to come.
[Blogger: The boldface there was an accident, but the statement, in light of all that has not been finalized, is worth emphasis.]
Jason: As far as the plans, I have some questions but I figured that would come from the county. At this point, Vic, do you have anything else?
[Look who answers:]
Amy: We will continue to work on this and the Garden Club has identified what is important to them. We don't intend to run roughshod on anyone.
[Too late. It's been done.]
[Blogger: At this point, Nick Ehlert was given the floor, and I am going to put his remarks into a separate post.]
Vic: On the drawing there was something about removing the mound. I don't now why it has to be removed.
Nick Ehlert asked if he could comment.
Jason: Hold that to public comment. Anything more?
Jim Aldrich: [The drawing] is ready for your review. Frank Horack could not be here tonight but pointed out something about lines on a pole. [Blogger: I think I missed part of this. Or Jim was referring to something that was thought to be perfectly clear to everyone.]
Vic: The structure--do you need a permit for that?
JA: I assume they would want something. Frank Horack has had the drawing down there [building dept.] for several weeks but the guy is always out.
Amy: We also had to be sure we cleared it with Mr. Dickey before the county issued it.
Vic: There are some questions about the construction of it. I wondered if it was going to be reviewed by the building department.
Jason: Anything put on township grounds has to be reviewed.
Vic: One of the biggest things is trying to maintain the Western Reserve atmosphere.
Amy: That is why we styled it . . . . [Trailed off.]
Vic: The plantings--pine trees. [Pine trees and evergreens were not 1800's landscaping plants.]
Amy: Just on the western border. It would be a windbreak.
Vic: I am trying to have the man from the forestry [come to a meeting].
Amy: Even the plantings were just suggestions made within a committee.
Vic: It started out as downsizing.
[Vic was not done, but Amy continued talking.] Amy: That was why we thought across the top [of the berm, I believe] with bushes that would stay green. A deciduous bush is not necessarily pretty. It is so early in the stages that we will be lucky to get things cleared for the base of the gazebo. Plantings will probably not be until next spring.
Jason: You guys have came [sic] to us in the past and folks who were involved in painting the building inside. This is the same group that added things in the kitchen.
[Well, not quite. That group included Larry Leitzow, Dan Cozzens, and several others. I'm not sure how big a role Amy, Barb, and Jim played in that.]
Jason, continuing: This is the group that did the veterans' memorial. That has not cost the township anything other than maintenance.
[Blogger: Wrong. Our insurance changed, and there is a monthly additional cost on the electricity bill. "No cost" for it to be created is accurate. But there is a cost subsequently. Maintenance is by the road crew or the lawn care company, so there is a cost Although it may not be huge, it is not chicken feed, either.]
Jason, continuing: You guys have done stellar work in the community. [Eh?]
Vic: The name has been changed to the Beautification Committee. I see that you have officers. Are you going to maintain minutes and open a bank account? Do you have to file that with the State?
Amy: We are a tax exempt charitable organization.
Vic: That has been filed with the State?
Amy: Yes. The bank has the appropriate numbers.
John Festa: You care to share what you have collected?
Amy: Just under $5,000 in seed money. We have pledges from the Brugmanns for sand and gravel. Stamm has given us their pledge for concrete. OK Brugmann will give us a deal on the rebar. I have a ton of volunteer crews wanting to know when they can tome to do what needs to be done.
John Festa: Any group that comes in front of the trustees with a plan that will benefit the township, it will always be granted. The trustees are always eager to agree to whatever any group would like to do for the community. You have a proven record. For you to do all of this out of the goodness of your hearts you have my backing. I am hoping for all the best to you and your group. My phone is always open.
[Blogger: This from the man who tried to remove the restoration society's sign for its first harvest dinner because the sign did not fit with the trustees' beliefs, whatever that meant. I don't see anything particularly religious, political, or philosophical about a sign announcing a potluck dinner in the school building--which the restoration society was renting for the event.]
JF, continuing: One more thing--I have some issue with your plan--will we need all that parking space? Would two be sufficient?
Amy: We could do as much or as little as needed. [Remember that when the veterans' memorial was being discussed, the space at the bull pen was rejected partly because there was not enough parking space. The drawing shows at least four, if I remember correctly.]
Barb Herbold (a committee member but not an officer): We may need to have handicapped. [Blogger: That was another sticking point about the bull pen when the memorial was being pitched to the trustees. The bull pen was somehow unsuitable for handicapped parking then. Apparently a magic wand has been brandished.]
Jason: Let's review this. You obviously have questions out with the building department.
Amy: We had hoped to have a resolution to let us begin. We know the permits have to come.
[Blogger: The boldface there was an accident, but the statement, in light of all that has not been finalized, is worth emphasis.]
Jason: As far as the plans, I have some questions but I figured that would come from the county. At this point, Vic, do you have anything else?
[Look who answers:]
Amy: We will continue to work on this and the Garden Club has identified what is important to them. We don't intend to run roughshod on anyone.
[Too late. It's been done.]
[Blogger: At this point, Nick Ehlert was given the floor, and I am going to put his remarks into a separate post.]
Sunday, August 7, 2016
Trustees 8-4-16: Set Scene for Spin and Dodge
The meeting opened with discussion about cases in court regarding zoning. Jason made a motion to accept the wording of a motion to be file with the court. [I think "motion" is the correct term here.]
For the zoning, Lynn Harvey updated on the issue of regional planning re-writing legal descriptions of properties. It has been done but has not been processed and entered into the book because we have been waiting for a legal hearing of some kind.
Lynn: I believe the final decision is that Chris Meduri is encouraging us to have a public hearing so it does not look as if we are putting things into the book without the public knowing.
To clarify for Jason, Lynn explained that these are the legal descriptions that were written 50 years ago and are in the back of the book. This changes nothing but gives the new, GIS information.
We were concerned that if it just showed up in the book there would be a problem. At Chris Meduri's recommendation we will have a public hearing. No date yet--September or October.
[I am going to skip a lot of routine kinds of things because this was a long meeting.]
However, in regard to Bill Kelley's concerns about School Lane, the county is going to mark that out.
Bill wondered about when that might be done, because he has possibly helpful information. There are at least three property line decisions.
Jason: The request has been sent in.
"Beautification Committee"
Amy Janca: [We] brought a plan of action, how we expect to go about the project.
[Blogger: That can be requested from Jodie Thompson, Fiscal Officer. I am not going to post it in the blog, or at least not in this meeting's blog.]
AJ, continuing: I had a nice conversation with Mr. Dickey about whether there were any issues about being able to establish a gazebo on the property. He assured me that it was not an issue and he would be willing to issue a zoning permit.
Jason knows of comments from the audience. What I [JC] think about this is it is not a major/huge effort. The land is going to stay the same. The problem I see is that it is a maintenance problem. We have a lot of flower beds and not enough people helping to maintain it. It is not an attraction where someone would go and have a picnic and eat lunch, but we have tables and shade right here [on the green]. I rarely see people over there other than those who are maintaining it. I rarely see residents enjoying the area. It is close to other foot traffic.
You are proposing beautification. What you propose is a gazebo which can attract people but I saw no benches and I still don't see it as a gathering place. It would be more of an attraction than what is over there now, with less landscaping and plantings than is there now.
[Blogger: At this point, up to the last sentence in the above comments, I was expecting something to the effect of "It's nice but we don't really need it as proposed." Now, I am inclined to see it as an elaborate mask, and maybe yet another slur, even though subtle, on the Garden Club. Watch how things move through the meeting.]
AJ: We have collected information about benches. We did not place them because that is all subject to [the] final plan. The arbor is not going away, but we do not know where it will be incorporated. There will be something there, but time will tell where it will go.
JC: Safety has been brought up and I do not see it as any more of a hazard than for a softball game. [A reference to the way people park and cross the road at the township garage for the little league games.]
Continuing: That is a different issue, but there are other safety concerns than a few people crossing the street. [Blogger: ? !] I don't see people crossing the road at peak times, 8-5. People might use it more on weekends and evening time, which is when people might use parks.
[Blogger: I can tell you, having worked for a number of years at township cleanup days at Diagonal Road to keep traffic out of the work area for the day, that there is a LOT of traffic there on weekends. Jason didn't see it because it was deflected. Except for cleanup day, I wonder if he is ever at that intersection for any amount of time to see what really happens there. Given a later remark about roads and not being able to know about them, I suspect he has no idea about this intersection.]
JC: One of the questions is whether there is a better location but that still does not address the beautification and maintenance issue there. In my mind it is the center of the township and it needs to be spruced up. There have been times when weeds were three feet high. It needs to have something done. In my opinion because we have a limited pool of funds this has not been a top priority. We have addressed the needs of the township, rather than the wants.
[All sounds plausible, doesn't it?]
Jan Oros, Wayne Road: May I ask a question? The road that has been blocked off--is that going to be opened as a road again?
Answer: No.
Vic: It was designated a road on the inventory, but it was not actually a road. The mound [at Rt. 82] was part of the commissioners' agreement. We did that to prevent people cutting through.
Mary Ann Weber [who lives in the house that faces the bullpen; her property line is one of the ones in question, I believe.] There are still people cutting through.
Vic: On the drawing there was something about removing the mound. I don't know why it has to be removed.
Nick Ehlert: Asked to make a comment. Jason asked him to hold it until public comment.
[Blogger: At this point, things changed to a discussion mostly between Amy and Vic about the drawings and plan. This got lengthy, so I am going to make it a separate post, to be done on a subsequent day, but fairly soon now that I have started this slog.
[My assumption about the blog is that it is mostly read by people familiar with the area at the Center, but one thing might warrant clarification. For many years, people often chose not to come to the stop sign at Diagonal and Center roads, but veered off to the left just before that, crossed in front of the house there, and came out on Rt. 82. That cut-through was referred to as Square Drive, and it was used to try to beat traffic and avoid a stop sign. People scarcely stopped at Rt. 82. Sometime a little before 2009, the trustees finally put up a mound to block entrance onto Rt. 82 from School Drive.]
For the zoning, Lynn Harvey updated on the issue of regional planning re-writing legal descriptions of properties. It has been done but has not been processed and entered into the book because we have been waiting for a legal hearing of some kind.
Lynn: I believe the final decision is that Chris Meduri is encouraging us to have a public hearing so it does not look as if we are putting things into the book without the public knowing.
To clarify for Jason, Lynn explained that these are the legal descriptions that were written 50 years ago and are in the back of the book. This changes nothing but gives the new, GIS information.
We were concerned that if it just showed up in the book there would be a problem. At Chris Meduri's recommendation we will have a public hearing. No date yet--September or October.
[I am going to skip a lot of routine kinds of things because this was a long meeting.]
However, in regard to Bill Kelley's concerns about School Lane, the county is going to mark that out.
Bill wondered about when that might be done, because he has possibly helpful information. There are at least three property line decisions.
Jason: The request has been sent in.
"Beautification Committee"
Amy Janca: [We] brought a plan of action, how we expect to go about the project.
[Blogger: That can be requested from Jodie Thompson, Fiscal Officer. I am not going to post it in the blog, or at least not in this meeting's blog.]
AJ, continuing: I had a nice conversation with Mr. Dickey about whether there were any issues about being able to establish a gazebo on the property. He assured me that it was not an issue and he would be willing to issue a zoning permit.
Jason knows of comments from the audience. What I [JC] think about this is it is not a major/huge effort. The land is going to stay the same. The problem I see is that it is a maintenance problem. We have a lot of flower beds and not enough people helping to maintain it. It is not an attraction where someone would go and have a picnic and eat lunch, but we have tables and shade right here [on the green]. I rarely see people over there other than those who are maintaining it. I rarely see residents enjoying the area. It is close to other foot traffic.
You are proposing beautification. What you propose is a gazebo which can attract people but I saw no benches and I still don't see it as a gathering place. It would be more of an attraction than what is over there now, with less landscaping and plantings than is there now.
[Blogger: At this point, up to the last sentence in the above comments, I was expecting something to the effect of "It's nice but we don't really need it as proposed." Now, I am inclined to see it as an elaborate mask, and maybe yet another slur, even though subtle, on the Garden Club. Watch how things move through the meeting.]
AJ: We have collected information about benches. We did not place them because that is all subject to [the] final plan. The arbor is not going away, but we do not know where it will be incorporated. There will be something there, but time will tell where it will go.
JC: Safety has been brought up and I do not see it as any more of a hazard than for a softball game. [A reference to the way people park and cross the road at the township garage for the little league games.]
Continuing: That is a different issue, but there are other safety concerns than a few people crossing the street. [Blogger: ? !] I don't see people crossing the road at peak times, 8-5. People might use it more on weekends and evening time, which is when people might use parks.
[Blogger: I can tell you, having worked for a number of years at township cleanup days at Diagonal Road to keep traffic out of the work area for the day, that there is a LOT of traffic there on weekends. Jason didn't see it because it was deflected. Except for cleanup day, I wonder if he is ever at that intersection for any amount of time to see what really happens there. Given a later remark about roads and not being able to know about them, I suspect he has no idea about this intersection.]
JC: One of the questions is whether there is a better location but that still does not address the beautification and maintenance issue there. In my mind it is the center of the township and it needs to be spruced up. There have been times when weeds were three feet high. It needs to have something done. In my opinion because we have a limited pool of funds this has not been a top priority. We have addressed the needs of the township, rather than the wants.
[All sounds plausible, doesn't it?]
Jan Oros, Wayne Road: May I ask a question? The road that has been blocked off--is that going to be opened as a road again?
Answer: No.
Vic: It was designated a road on the inventory, but it was not actually a road. The mound [at Rt. 82] was part of the commissioners' agreement. We did that to prevent people cutting through.
Mary Ann Weber [who lives in the house that faces the bullpen; her property line is one of the ones in question, I believe.] There are still people cutting through.
Vic: On the drawing there was something about removing the mound. I don't know why it has to be removed.
Nick Ehlert: Asked to make a comment. Jason asked him to hold it until public comment.
[Blogger: At this point, things changed to a discussion mostly between Amy and Vic about the drawings and plan. This got lengthy, so I am going to make it a separate post, to be done on a subsequent day, but fairly soon now that I have started this slog.
[My assumption about the blog is that it is mostly read by people familiar with the area at the Center, but one thing might warrant clarification. For many years, people often chose not to come to the stop sign at Diagonal and Center roads, but veered off to the left just before that, crossed in front of the house there, and came out on Rt. 82. That cut-through was referred to as Square Drive, and it was used to try to beat traffic and avoid a stop sign. People scarcely stopped at Rt. 82. Sometime a little before 2009, the trustees finally put up a mound to block entrance onto Rt. 82 from School Drive.]
Saturday, August 6, 2016
All Talk, No Walk--But a Revelation
Blogger: Like the previous post, this one will be my own observations and comments. Therefore, no brackets.
Here is what happened (or didn't happen):
Two of the trustees made a fine display that ended in their blandly ignoring all comments except those from their favored few, who were praised in terms that only the Second Coming might deserve: the benefactors of the township, to hear the accolades. The detailed blog post will make that clear.
The comments focused on safety, and Nick Ehlert spoke with passion and eloquence, as only Nick can. Nothing.
Jason and John Festa are holding hands if not being joined from the shoulders down, so they don't have to pay attention to anyone: they control the vote.
However, we did learn the one person they are paying attention to on this venture.
Amy Janca was asked about officers, meetings, minutes--organizational things. She indicated that this "Beautification Committee" has gotten non-profit, tax exempt status and has a tax ID number and a bank account.
Jim Aldrich, I believe (that will be clarified when I go to my notes to do the detailed posts), gave the trustees the committee's action plan for the bull pen, and it contains the list of officers.
Here they are, as listed in the Gazebo Plan of Action:
Jim Aldrich, Chairman
Wendy Carlton, V. Chairman
Amy Janca, Secretary
Frank Horack, Treas. & Building Advisor
Does that drop anything into place for you, dear reader? It certainly did for me.
Today is the first one not blisteringly hot, and your faithful blogger is going to go do yard work.
Stay tuned.
Here is what happened (or didn't happen):
Two of the trustees made a fine display that ended in their blandly ignoring all comments except those from their favored few, who were praised in terms that only the Second Coming might deserve: the benefactors of the township, to hear the accolades. The detailed blog post will make that clear.
The comments focused on safety, and Nick Ehlert spoke with passion and eloquence, as only Nick can. Nothing.
Jason and John Festa are holding hands if not being joined from the shoulders down, so they don't have to pay attention to anyone: they control the vote.
However, we did learn the one person they are paying attention to on this venture.
Amy Janca was asked about officers, meetings, minutes--organizational things. She indicated that this "Beautification Committee" has gotten non-profit, tax exempt status and has a tax ID number and a bank account.
Jim Aldrich, I believe (that will be clarified when I go to my notes to do the detailed posts), gave the trustees the committee's action plan for the bull pen, and it contains the list of officers.
Here they are, as listed in the Gazebo Plan of Action:
Jim Aldrich, Chairman
Wendy Carlton, V. Chairman
Amy Janca, Secretary
Frank Horack, Treas. & Building Advisor
Does that drop anything into place for you, dear reader? It certainly did for me.
Today is the first one not blisteringly hot, and your faithful blogger is going to go do yard work.
Stay tuned.
Thursday, August 4, 2016
To Trustees: Walk the Talk. Please.
Blogger Forward: First of all, I am going to forego the usual brackets indicating my comments or opinion. Everything in this post that is not a long excerpt from the Friday, July 22, Record Courier is my commentary.
Second, this post contains two parts: the above mentioned article, and the letter that I mailed to the trustees. It was confirmed that it arrived on Monday, August 1.
The trustees' response to the letter and to the anticipated public comment at the meeting for this evening, August 4, will be posted ASAP, possibly a sentence or two tonight after the meeting or in the morning, and then the usual more detailed post subsequently.
The Record Courier:
Kasic calls for GOP, Ohio unity
SAYS HE REGRETS SB FIGHT, DOESN'T REGRET NOT JOINING CONVENTION
CLEVELAND--Calling himself the "father of Ohio," Gov. John Kasich said Thursday that pushing a Republican-backed public employee collective bargaining reform package shortly after he took office without working o find common ground with critics was a mistake. [Underlining here and subsequently added by blogger.]
Speaking to Ohio delegates to the Republican National Convention during a breakfast session in Cleveland, Kasich said 2011's Senate Bill 5 and his failed presidential campaign changed his approach, and he has a greater desire to unify those on opposite sides of issues.
"(When) we came into office in 2011, we had a very rocky time," the governor said. "I was a congressman when I was elected governor. We went through a very tough time on SB 5. Why? We overreached, didn't listen, didn't unify. It was really tough."
The Republican-controlled legislature passed SB 5, and the governor signed it into law. But a subsequent referendum placed it before voters, who soundly rejected it later in the year. Kasich said he didn't find much support during the SB 5 campaign from those who pushed the law changes.
"I traveled all over Ohio, and I took a beating," he said. "And I never backed down, and when we lost, I said we lost. I've learned. From that day forward, I figured out I needed to be the Father of Ohio."
"You've got to bring people together," Kasich said. "You have to unify the family. (In Ohio today) people believe that no one is being cut out, no one is being demonized and no one, at least in our efforts, is being left behind. This state has come back."
He added, "That's what I think we need to do in America. We need to unify. We don't need to divide. We can stand on our principles, we can still get it right."
But Kasich also said he would continue to buck the party and others if they push for policies and issues he opposes. He mentioned Medicaid expansion among other examples.
"I remember in 1980 when the Republicans asked me to vote for tax increases," he said. "I wasn't doing it. They tried to tell me I needed to do it because I owed them something. I didn't vote for tax increases."
[The article continued for another short column, but what has been posted here is what is relevant to the township. Why did I underline that last sentence? Because I believe two of the trustees have been convinced to believe that they owe something to someone off screen, in spite of their comments about working for all of the residents.]
My letter to the trustees:
July 29, 2016
From: Carole Pollard, Resident
To: Mantua Township Trustees
Subject: "Park" in bullpen
The accompanying article from the Friday, July 22, 2016, Ravenna Record Courier is particularly applicable to the question of the proposed park in Mantua Township's bullpen.
If discussing an issue from all sided is good for Governor Kasich, that approach should be good for the Mantua Township trustees.
At present, there has been no real discussion about the "park" idea. Requests to do so have been presented but have received no response. Those who have raised legitimate questions about usefulness due to the size of the area as well as its safety and noisiness have been labeled "naysayers"--without discussion, but just an instant reaction.
No one has said "Don't do it." The aim of the questions has been "Do it right." (And take the time to make sure it will be done right.)
"Inclusiveness" has been invoked, but once the camera has been turned off, no action to ensure inclusiveness has been taken by the trustees or required by them.
Governor Kasich has vouched for the wisdom of discussing issues with critics. The township held large, special public meetings to discuss who hauls our trash. It seems reasonable that a park intended for use by all should be discussed by more than just the five or so people who have been listened to so far. The other voices have met clear resistance by the trustees.
This letter's purpose is to make a formal request, on record, that the trustees advertise and hold at least two meetings to discuss every aspect of a proposed park with residents and then make their decision on those community meetings.
If the trustees are not going to do that, then I believe it is reasonable to ask why you are not--and to expect a real answer, not just words.
Yours truly,
Carole Pollard
5359 Allyn Road
Second, this post contains two parts: the above mentioned article, and the letter that I mailed to the trustees. It was confirmed that it arrived on Monday, August 1.
The trustees' response to the letter and to the anticipated public comment at the meeting for this evening, August 4, will be posted ASAP, possibly a sentence or two tonight after the meeting or in the morning, and then the usual more detailed post subsequently.
The Record Courier:
Kasic calls for GOP, Ohio unity
SAYS HE REGRETS SB FIGHT, DOESN'T REGRET NOT JOINING CONVENTION
CLEVELAND--Calling himself the "father of Ohio," Gov. John Kasich said Thursday that pushing a Republican-backed public employee collective bargaining reform package shortly after he took office without working o find common ground with critics was a mistake. [Underlining here and subsequently added by blogger.]
Speaking to Ohio delegates to the Republican National Convention during a breakfast session in Cleveland, Kasich said 2011's Senate Bill 5 and his failed presidential campaign changed his approach, and he has a greater desire to unify those on opposite sides of issues.
"(When) we came into office in 2011, we had a very rocky time," the governor said. "I was a congressman when I was elected governor. We went through a very tough time on SB 5. Why? We overreached, didn't listen, didn't unify. It was really tough."
The Republican-controlled legislature passed SB 5, and the governor signed it into law. But a subsequent referendum placed it before voters, who soundly rejected it later in the year. Kasich said he didn't find much support during the SB 5 campaign from those who pushed the law changes.
"I traveled all over Ohio, and I took a beating," he said. "And I never backed down, and when we lost, I said we lost. I've learned. From that day forward, I figured out I needed to be the Father of Ohio."
"You've got to bring people together," Kasich said. "You have to unify the family. (In Ohio today) people believe that no one is being cut out, no one is being demonized and no one, at least in our efforts, is being left behind. This state has come back."
He added, "That's what I think we need to do in America. We need to unify. We don't need to divide. We can stand on our principles, we can still get it right."
But Kasich also said he would continue to buck the party and others if they push for policies and issues he opposes. He mentioned Medicaid expansion among other examples.
"I remember in 1980 when the Republicans asked me to vote for tax increases," he said. "I wasn't doing it. They tried to tell me I needed to do it because I owed them something. I didn't vote for tax increases."
[The article continued for another short column, but what has been posted here is what is relevant to the township. Why did I underline that last sentence? Because I believe two of the trustees have been convinced to believe that they owe something to someone off screen, in spite of their comments about working for all of the residents.]
My letter to the trustees:
July 29, 2016
From: Carole Pollard, Resident
To: Mantua Township Trustees
Subject: "Park" in bullpen
The accompanying article from the Friday, July 22, 2016, Ravenna Record Courier is particularly applicable to the question of the proposed park in Mantua Township's bullpen.
If discussing an issue from all sided is good for Governor Kasich, that approach should be good for the Mantua Township trustees.
At present, there has been no real discussion about the "park" idea. Requests to do so have been presented but have received no response. Those who have raised legitimate questions about usefulness due to the size of the area as well as its safety and noisiness have been labeled "naysayers"--without discussion, but just an instant reaction.
No one has said "Don't do it." The aim of the questions has been "Do it right." (And take the time to make sure it will be done right.)
"Inclusiveness" has been invoked, but once the camera has been turned off, no action to ensure inclusiveness has been taken by the trustees or required by them.
Governor Kasich has vouched for the wisdom of discussing issues with critics. The township held large, special public meetings to discuss who hauls our trash. It seems reasonable that a park intended for use by all should be discussed by more than just the five or so people who have been listened to so far. The other voices have met clear resistance by the trustees.
This letter's purpose is to make a formal request, on record, that the trustees advertise and hold at least two meetings to discuss every aspect of a proposed park with residents and then make their decision on those community meetings.
If the trustees are not going to do that, then I believe it is reasonable to ask why you are not--and to expect a real answer, not just words.
Yours truly,
Carole Pollard
5359 Allyn Road
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