School is marked "No Trespass" for everyone to see
Mantua Dawn decided, "That cannot mean me!"
Sheriff gave her warning (11/18/10), so she blames trustees
But school is marked NO TRESPASS
For everyone to see.
Copyright, Dave Pollard
Wednesday, March 9, 2011
Monday, March 7, 2011
2/17/11: Public Comment, Other, Part 1
Jason Carlton, Vice Chair, conducted the meeting in Mark Hall's absence.
He commented on the Record Courier article about the citizens' website.
Note: More about that in subsequent posts.
Vic Grimm commented on having saved money on some of the work on the school, so that there was money available to buy the steel for the platform needed to support the fire escapes. The materials would run about $3200. That money would cover both fire escapes and is a requirement by the fire department.
The road crew and Vic would do the work. Note: Vic's time would be donated--something he did for the township even before he was a trustee. Vic showed Jason the specifications.
Note: The Township had the parking area outside the school building paved for approximately $18,000 LESS than the architecht's estimate.
The materials for the fire escapes are estimated to cost $3200, and that money would come from $4,000 unspent from the original funding. This was not a request for "new" money.
Jason: This is kind of a tough decision for me.
There was a bit more discussion and indecision, and then Jason said that if Vic made the motion, he, Jason, would second it. Done.
Public Comment
Public comment is supposed to be limited to 5 minutes per speaker. Since the full flavor of a speaker's remarks may be impossible to capture in a condensation or summary, some remarks are as close to verbatim as possible.
Speakers in Part 1: Alan Brugmann, Dennis Johns, Dawn Pechman.
Alan (sp?) Brugmann asked about whether a truck had been sold.
Answer (Vic): It is still for sale. Someone expressed an interest, but we have not heard back.
Dennis Johns: Last meeting there was a question to Vic about whether he had read the insurance policy. Jason, have you read it? Answer: No.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 S.R. 82
You're having an executive session tonight on personnel, right?
Jason: That's correct.
Dawn: OK, and yuou know the township's going to have to be hiring somebody and has, is this going to be discussed after the executive session or is it going to be discussed at the next meeting?
Jason: Well, I can't answer what's going to be discussed in the executive session, obviously, but it is for personnel. The township--we will have to hire someone, in my opinion. Maybe Vic can comment on that in a minute, but as far as hiring someone, we do have a resolution, 2000-237. So if there are any vacancies, in my opinion, there may be a vacancy coming up depending on what comes out of executive session, obviously. And we would have to advertise.
Dawn: I'm not asking, you know, about the executive session, it's confidential.
Based on the 1997 employee manual and job descriptions that seem a bit dated, there's no done on them, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to update the job descriptions before actually advertising and that's the one thing I want to make sure that I get my 2 cents in on. I think it's going to be far better to advertise for all the positions as opposed to just, you know, move people up because I think from the townshiop employee standpoing, it's a little bit lax as far as paperwork goes and I think it would be very important to get that caught up to speed.
So you're not hiring, I guess that's what I want to make sure is if you're going to hire somebody that you advertise. And also, I would like to ask to that somebody from Mantua Township be considered. And I think that you as trustees, you can make those kind of things,. and you can discuss those in open session from that standpoint.
The insurance policy, I want to bring this up because general liability does cover volunteers. And it says specifically in the policy. And Marie, that's marked on the policy that Marie has right now too. And that goes back to people who are interested in seeing the inside of the Center School. I have digital photographs of the inside of the school, but there are some people who want to see it. Anybody who's going in there could be considered a volunteer. And I think that would be one way. It needs to be addressed, in allowing people to see the inside of that school.
Vic, you were talking about the stairs, could you elaborate on the stairs. It's my understanding those stairs are only required if you've got preschool or under age 5 kids.
Reply, Vic: That was a requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: For under 5.
Vic: That was the requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: Based on a daycare center, which is kids under . . . ..
Vic: No, based on whether we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: I don't remember seeing it, I do remember seeing if it was going to be a daycare, you had to have steps going up.
Vic: It was based on if we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: Do you have that in writing?
Vic: Probably somewhere.
Dawn: Could you get that please, before the stairs are purchased because I don't remember seeing that in anything I've looked at, and I do think from the school standpoint the basement is going to be finished and also the gymnasium is going to be finished.
And years ago, you were talking about having hearings before anything could happen there; Jason's working on a survey. What is the actual steps that have to occur before you can start using that building? And I never understood what the fire department's about anyway.
Vic: The purpose is to finish what the permit is for. That is how we get into the building.
Dawn: What do you mean?
Vic: What the permits are for right now. We have to finish to get into the building.
Dawn: You do have the option to change that education right now, you do have that option.
Vic: You would have to change everything.
Dawn: No you would not, you would just have to change the option for the basement. And that's the one thing you seem reluctant to consider.
Vic: That is not how it was explained to me.
Dawn: Well, it was explained to me that you have. . . .
Vic: Who explained that to you?
Dawn: Randy, Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: All right, I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: And I think that it would be a good idea to follow up on it because if that basement can be finished at a lesser cost, by putting a higher degree of education, an older group of education people in there, I think that would be a savings to the township and needs to be considered.
Vic: As far as I know at this point, Dawn, is we have the permit for that and we don't want to change it; we want to stay with what the permit is.
Dawn: You don't want to change it, and I'm asking . . . .
Vic: I said "We." I said "We."
Dawn: "We" is who? The trustees?
Vic: The Board of Trustees.
Dawn: I am asking the Board of Trustees to consier changing the educatrion classification.
Vic: This is what you asked last time and we said we would look into it.
Dawn: Well, did you look into it, no.
Vic: No, you asked Mark.
Dawn: Well, I've actually, this started a couple months ago. The education change is going to allow other
people to be in there, it will not cost as much to have the building finished and if I remember correctly, we do not need the exterior stairs going up on the inside because that was a fire department inspection, that was prior to the purchase of the building, it was based on daycare.
Vic: No, actually that was dated 2006.
Blogger's Note: The school was purchased in 2004 and was not worked on right away because
of several bureaucratic and EPA restrictions and requirements.
Dawn: So you have a copy of it, then?
Vic: Yeah, and you have a copy of it, I believe.. I gave it to you, you asked for a copy of that and it was a minimum requiremenmt of the fire department that was attached to the job copy prints.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints.
Vic: No, but you asked for that letter and I gave it to you.
Dawn: I'm asking you again then, because I don't remember seeing that letter.
Vic. From the fire department. That's attached to the job copy print.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints or whatever you're talking about.
Vic. That's the letter you've requested before and I've given it to you, but I'll get it for you again.
Dawn: I'm requesting it again because I don't recall having that but also you said you were going to talk with Bob Wrentmore about changing the classification for education, right?
Vic: What?
Dawn: You're going to call Randy and Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: OK, and what is the process going to be for people who want to use the gym? The daycare because you don't.have a day care. What's the process going to be for people who are interested in using that building?
Vic: The gym area?
Dawn: Both.
Vic: That's the assembly area.
Dawn: Right, is this going to require a hearing, too?
Vic: For the gym area, I don't believe it does.
Dawn: Will it require a hearing for the basement?
Vic: I think whoever wants to rent it would require a hearing.
Dawn: You think? I disagree with you, so could you get that established, too.
Vic: I'll have to look into the contract, Dawn.
Dawn: The contract between the township and . . . the leasing agent?
V: Yes.
D: What about people getting inside that school to see it now?
V: My position is exactly what the insurance company told me.
D: Well, your position kind of goes in direct violation, or opposition of what your policy says.
V: Volunteers do not fall under that, what they'r e talking about, they're not talking under construction site.
D: Who are "they"?
V: The insurance company. It's a different type of thing for volunteers. Say that we have the Spring Cleanup, that's considered a community project. And even then, if you get that waiver, it doesn't mean you're [the sanctioning entity] not going to get sued, or somebody's not going to file a lawsuit against you.
D: And that's where a release would come in.
V: No, I'm talking about the release.
Blogger's Note: "Release" and "waiver" may be used interchangeably. Most of you probably know that.
D: Put it in, you know, if you don't have it, John [Festa] asked for it in writing last week at the last meeting; do you have it?
V: No, I don't have it.
D: Why not?
V: I don't have it.
D: That needs to be happening in writing because there is an insurance policy, it looks like people could go in there [the school]. You have township people who want to volunteer to get that building up and running.
V: We have already discussed this I don't know how many times, Dawn.
D: Well, and that's what needs to change at this point, we have to have a change and how it's going to happen because . . . .
V: [to Jason]: Are we going to follow a time limit or not? (Dawn's remarks had now lasted 9 minutes.)
D: I'm almost finished here and the whole thing is, is, this has been going on for 6 years at this point and it needs to change and people want to see in the building. I can give Brent the digital photos I took of the inside but I think that it would be a good idea for people to see it on their own.
V: We are going to have an open house.
D: When?
V: In the spring here, when the annex is open.
D: How are people going to sign up to get in the annex, it just seems like there is a lack of preparation again to get the whole thing going.
Jason: All right, Dawn, so, I mean, you've asked a ton of questions.
D: I know.
J: So, you know, we'd like to let everybody else have a chance to talk.
D: Fine.
J: So, we've got a couple items, Vic's going to get some paperwork for you.
D: And when can I get an answer? That's my last question.
J: I, what was your final question? I don't even know, you had a lot of questions.
D: Yeah, well, I, and it's a question I've been repeating. The change of education classification.
J: So, let me address that right now. So, from my understanding and I don't know every single detail because I don't work with the Building Deparment, but that would be a change of occupancy and that is an absolute mess to go through a change of occupancy.
That is why I would like to keep education on there, expand the umbrella of education. That is what I'm trying to work with this survey on.
D: And I understand that, but that's not what the Building Department told me.
J: OK, and then so either myself or Vic will follow up woth the Building Dept., we'll get that clarified and we will convey that at the next meeting or so, the specifics on that.
D: OK, OK.
J: Is that everything?
D: Sure, and I think it would be a good idea to figure out how we could get some people going in there too.
J: OK.
V: We will, at the open house.
D: Prior to that, Vic.
V: It's a construction site, Dawn.
D: And the "No Trespassing" signs up there, how far off does that extend?
V: The property of the school.
D: So public property, you cannot . . . you know, I was, I was, a report was filed agains me for criminal trespassing. But not the other persons on the property that day.
V: Dawn, there's been more than you that's been called for that over there.
D: Who was called?
V: There has been a couple other people that the sheriffs came out and talked to.
D: I would like to know who.
V: The reports are at the Sheriff's Department.
D: Under Mantua Township?
V: Yes.
D: And, did you file them?
V: No, I didn't file them.
D: And you had Matt [DeYoung] file all of them?
V: Matt was on the grounds all of the time, yes.
D: OK, thank you.
Note: Dawn's remarks took 11-1/2 minutes.
He commented on the Record Courier article about the citizens' website.
Note: More about that in subsequent posts.
Vic Grimm commented on having saved money on some of the work on the school, so that there was money available to buy the steel for the platform needed to support the fire escapes. The materials would run about $3200. That money would cover both fire escapes and is a requirement by the fire department.
The road crew and Vic would do the work. Note: Vic's time would be donated--something he did for the township even before he was a trustee. Vic showed Jason the specifications.
Note: The Township had the parking area outside the school building paved for approximately $18,000 LESS than the architecht's estimate.
The materials for the fire escapes are estimated to cost $3200, and that money would come from $4,000 unspent from the original funding. This was not a request for "new" money.
Jason: This is kind of a tough decision for me.
There was a bit more discussion and indecision, and then Jason said that if Vic made the motion, he, Jason, would second it. Done.
Public Comment
Public comment is supposed to be limited to 5 minutes per speaker. Since the full flavor of a speaker's remarks may be impossible to capture in a condensation or summary, some remarks are as close to verbatim as possible.
Speakers in Part 1: Alan Brugmann, Dennis Johns, Dawn Pechman.
Alan (sp?) Brugmann asked about whether a truck had been sold.
Answer (Vic): It is still for sale. Someone expressed an interest, but we have not heard back.
Dennis Johns: Last meeting there was a question to Vic about whether he had read the insurance policy. Jason, have you read it? Answer: No.
Dawn Pechman, 3218 S.R. 82
You're having an executive session tonight on personnel, right?
Jason: That's correct.
Dawn: OK, and yuou know the township's going to have to be hiring somebody and has, is this going to be discussed after the executive session or is it going to be discussed at the next meeting?
Jason: Well, I can't answer what's going to be discussed in the executive session, obviously, but it is for personnel. The township--we will have to hire someone, in my opinion. Maybe Vic can comment on that in a minute, but as far as hiring someone, we do have a resolution, 2000-237. So if there are any vacancies, in my opinion, there may be a vacancy coming up depending on what comes out of executive session, obviously. And we would have to advertise.
Dawn: I'm not asking, you know, about the executive session, it's confidential.
Based on the 1997 employee manual and job descriptions that seem a bit dated, there's no done on them, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to update the job descriptions before actually advertising and that's the one thing I want to make sure that I get my 2 cents in on. I think it's going to be far better to advertise for all the positions as opposed to just, you know, move people up because I think from the townshiop employee standpoing, it's a little bit lax as far as paperwork goes and I think it would be very important to get that caught up to speed.
So you're not hiring, I guess that's what I want to make sure is if you're going to hire somebody that you advertise. And also, I would like to ask to that somebody from Mantua Township be considered. And I think that you as trustees, you can make those kind of things,. and you can discuss those in open session from that standpoint.
The insurance policy, I want to bring this up because general liability does cover volunteers. And it says specifically in the policy. And Marie, that's marked on the policy that Marie has right now too. And that goes back to people who are interested in seeing the inside of the Center School. I have digital photographs of the inside of the school, but there are some people who want to see it. Anybody who's going in there could be considered a volunteer. And I think that would be one way. It needs to be addressed, in allowing people to see the inside of that school.
Vic, you were talking about the stairs, could you elaborate on the stairs. It's my understanding those stairs are only required if you've got preschool or under age 5 kids.
Reply, Vic: That was a requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: For under 5.
Vic: That was the requirement of the fire department.
Dawn: Based on a daycare center, which is kids under . . . ..
Vic: No, based on whether we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: I don't remember seeing it, I do remember seeing if it was going to be a daycare, you had to have steps going up.
Vic: It was based on if we had to put a sprinkler system in or not.
Dawn: Do you have that in writing?
Vic: Probably somewhere.
Dawn: Could you get that please, before the stairs are purchased because I don't remember seeing that in anything I've looked at, and I do think from the school standpoint the basement is going to be finished and also the gymnasium is going to be finished.
And years ago, you were talking about having hearings before anything could happen there; Jason's working on a survey. What is the actual steps that have to occur before you can start using that building? And I never understood what the fire department's about anyway.
Vic: The purpose is to finish what the permit is for. That is how we get into the building.
Dawn: What do you mean?
Vic: What the permits are for right now. We have to finish to get into the building.
Dawn: You do have the option to change that education right now, you do have that option.
Vic: You would have to change everything.
Dawn: No you would not, you would just have to change the option for the basement. And that's the one thing you seem reluctant to consider.
Vic: That is not how it was explained to me.
Dawn: Well, it was explained to me that you have. . . .
Vic: Who explained that to you?
Dawn: Randy, Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: All right, I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: And I think that it would be a good idea to follow up on it because if that basement can be finished at a lesser cost, by putting a higher degree of education, an older group of education people in there, I think that would be a savings to the township and needs to be considered.
Vic: As far as I know at this point, Dawn, is we have the permit for that and we don't want to change it; we want to stay with what the permit is.
Dawn: You don't want to change it, and I'm asking . . . .
Vic: I said "We." I said "We."
Dawn: "We" is who? The trustees?
Vic: The Board of Trustees.
Dawn: I am asking the Board of Trustees to consier changing the educatrion classification.
Vic: This is what you asked last time and we said we would look into it.
Dawn: Well, did you look into it, no.
Vic: No, you asked Mark.
Dawn: Well, I've actually, this started a couple months ago. The education change is going to allow other
people to be in there, it will not cost as much to have the building finished and if I remember correctly, we do not need the exterior stairs going up on the inside because that was a fire department inspection, that was prior to the purchase of the building, it was based on daycare.
Vic: No, actually that was dated 2006.
Blogger's Note: The school was purchased in 2004 and was not worked on right away because
of several bureaucratic and EPA restrictions and requirements.
Dawn: So you have a copy of it, then?
Vic: Yeah, and you have a copy of it, I believe.. I gave it to you, you asked for a copy of that and it was a minimum requiremenmt of the fire department that was attached to the job copy prints.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints.
Vic: No, but you asked for that letter and I gave it to you.
Dawn: I'm asking you again then, because I don't remember seeing that letter.
Vic. From the fire department. That's attached to the job copy print.
Dawn: I don't have job copy prints or whatever you're talking about.
Vic. That's the letter you've requested before and I've given it to you, but I'll get it for you again.
Dawn: I'm requesting it again because I don't recall having that but also you said you were going to talk with Bob Wrentmore about changing the classification for education, right?
Vic: What?
Dawn: You're going to call Randy and Bob Wrentmore.
Vic: I'll follow up on it.
Dawn: OK, and what is the process going to be for people who want to use the gym? The daycare because you don't.have a day care. What's the process going to be for people who are interested in using that building?
Vic: The gym area?
Dawn: Both.
Vic: That's the assembly area.
Dawn: Right, is this going to require a hearing, too?
Vic: For the gym area, I don't believe it does.
Dawn: Will it require a hearing for the basement?
Vic: I think whoever wants to rent it would require a hearing.
Dawn: You think? I disagree with you, so could you get that established, too.
Vic: I'll have to look into the contract, Dawn.
Dawn: The contract between the township and . . . the leasing agent?
V: Yes.
D: What about people getting inside that school to see it now?
V: My position is exactly what the insurance company told me.
D: Well, your position kind of goes in direct violation, or opposition of what your policy says.
V: Volunteers do not fall under that, what they'r e talking about, they're not talking under construction site.
D: Who are "they"?
V: The insurance company. It's a different type of thing for volunteers. Say that we have the Spring Cleanup, that's considered a community project. And even then, if you get that waiver, it doesn't mean you're [the sanctioning entity] not going to get sued, or somebody's not going to file a lawsuit against you.
D: And that's where a release would come in.
V: No, I'm talking about the release.
Blogger's Note: "Release" and "waiver" may be used interchangeably. Most of you probably know that.
D: Put it in, you know, if you don't have it, John [Festa] asked for it in writing last week at the last meeting; do you have it?
V: No, I don't have it.
D: Why not?
V: I don't have it.
D: That needs to be happening in writing because there is an insurance policy, it looks like people could go in there [the school]. You have township people who want to volunteer to get that building up and running.
V: We have already discussed this I don't know how many times, Dawn.
D: Well, and that's what needs to change at this point, we have to have a change and how it's going to happen because . . . .
V: [to Jason]: Are we going to follow a time limit or not? (Dawn's remarks had now lasted 9 minutes.)
D: I'm almost finished here and the whole thing is, is, this has been going on for 6 years at this point and it needs to change and people want to see in the building. I can give Brent the digital photos I took of the inside but I think that it would be a good idea for people to see it on their own.
V: We are going to have an open house.
D: When?
V: In the spring here, when the annex is open.
D: How are people going to sign up to get in the annex, it just seems like there is a lack of preparation again to get the whole thing going.
Jason: All right, Dawn, so, I mean, you've asked a ton of questions.
D: I know.
J: So, you know, we'd like to let everybody else have a chance to talk.
D: Fine.
J: So, we've got a couple items, Vic's going to get some paperwork for you.
D: And when can I get an answer? That's my last question.
J: I, what was your final question? I don't even know, you had a lot of questions.
D: Yeah, well, I, and it's a question I've been repeating. The change of education classification.
J: So, let me address that right now. So, from my understanding and I don't know every single detail because I don't work with the Building Deparment, but that would be a change of occupancy and that is an absolute mess to go through a change of occupancy.
That is why I would like to keep education on there, expand the umbrella of education. That is what I'm trying to work with this survey on.
D: And I understand that, but that's not what the Building Department told me.
J: OK, and then so either myself or Vic will follow up woth the Building Dept., we'll get that clarified and we will convey that at the next meeting or so, the specifics on that.
D: OK, OK.
J: Is that everything?
D: Sure, and I think it would be a good idea to figure out how we could get some people going in there too.
J: OK.
V: We will, at the open house.
D: Prior to that, Vic.
V: It's a construction site, Dawn.
D: And the "No Trespassing" signs up there, how far off does that extend?
V: The property of the school.
D: So public property, you cannot . . . you know, I was, I was, a report was filed agains me for criminal trespassing. But not the other persons on the property that day.
V: Dawn, there's been more than you that's been called for that over there.
D: Who was called?
V: There has been a couple other people that the sheriffs came out and talked to.
D: I would like to know who.
V: The reports are at the Sheriff's Department.
D: Under Mantua Township?
V: Yes.
D: And, did you file them?
V: No, I didn't file them.
D: And you had Matt [DeYoung] file all of them?
V: Matt was on the grounds all of the time, yes.
D: OK, thank you.
Note: Dawn's remarks took 11-1/2 minutes.
Sunday, March 6, 2011
Limerick 2/27/11
The "Group of Eight" constantly prate
On cost of Center School to date.
This seems the point of all their fuss:
"Let taxpayers pay for all updates,
Then sell it--to one of us"!
On cost of Center School to date.
This seems the point of all their fuss:
"Let taxpayers pay for all updates,
Then sell it--to one of us"!
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Center School Open House Committee
With work on the first phase of the renovation of the Mantua Center School approaching completion, a group of township residents formed a committee to organize an open house on behalf of the trustees to celebrate and acknowlege the work that has been done since 2006.
At the March 3 meeting of the Mantua Township Trustees, committee head Terri Vechery presented the proposal and asked the trustees to approve the committee, which they did. Committee members, listed in no particular order, are Terri Vechery, Roger Hurd, Dave Pollard, Sue Skrovan, John Vechery, Carol Srajer, and Carole Pollard.
All of us on the committee are excited about the prospect of celebrating getting back our school, and we have supported the trustees in their efforts to do this right from the start. We have also always supported the trustees on the whole, even though we may have differed on details at times.
Other residents of like mind have already said that they are on board as helpers on the appointed day, which looks as if it will be the latter part of May or possibly early June. TBA, as the saying goes.
Get out your favorite recipe--the committee has proposed a community potluck. After all, what would a celebration be without a meal and a chance to talk to each other?
At the March 3 meeting of the Mantua Township Trustees, committee head Terri Vechery presented the proposal and asked the trustees to approve the committee, which they did. Committee members, listed in no particular order, are Terri Vechery, Roger Hurd, Dave Pollard, Sue Skrovan, John Vechery, Carol Srajer, and Carole Pollard.
All of us on the committee are excited about the prospect of celebrating getting back our school, and we have supported the trustees in their efforts to do this right from the start. We have also always supported the trustees on the whole, even though we may have differed on details at times.
Other residents of like mind have already said that they are on board as helpers on the appointed day, which looks as if it will be the latter part of May or possibly early June. TBA, as the saying goes.
Get out your favorite recipe--the committee has proposed a community potluck. After all, what would a celebration be without a meal and a chance to talk to each other?
Friday, March 4, 2011
Public Comment 2/3/11, Part 3
Roger Hurd, 11251 Center Road
I would like to respond to some comments that were made at the last meeting about Mark Hall and his position as a trustee.
We went over this once before, but I'm going to go over it again because apparently not everyone heard it or [may not have] understood it.
About 15 months before the last trustees' election which was a year ago this past November, Steve Oros took out a nominating petition and on that petition were four names who were to serve as a committee to pick his successor if he was unable to complete his term. I didn't realize at the time that I was on that committee. And the committee consisted of Vic Grimm, Sue Skrovan, Phil Derthick, and myself.
When the committee was called to meet, we did meet and we mutually agreed that the first thing we needed to do was talk to the prosecutor's office to find the scope of what we were supposed to do. Get a legal opinion, in other words.
According to the ORC, the prosecutor gave us the parameters that we had to operate within. We had other questions for the prosecutor, and he said he could not answer them, that we had to get outside legal counsel, which we did, pro bono. We got that information from an attorney who is well versed in township law, village law, county law, etc.
We met again to discuss what we were going to do and we decided that we were going to ask Mark to fill that unexpired term. The reason is we had one new trustee coming on; we felt that the experience and continuity would be [desirable]. Mark had the experience that we were looking for. He also had more votes than anybody else in the township who was not a trustee.
Another thing I wanted to point out was that the statement was made that there were many people that voted against Mark. Any ballot that I have ever seen, you have issues where you vote for or against, or you have candidates where you vote for this person or for that person. There is no box to vote against anyone. So that was kind of a fuzzy statement.
But if you carry that fuzzy logic a little farther, Jason, more people voted against you than voted for you. That's not true; they voted for you, they voted for Vic, and they voted for Mark, not against anyone.
Also it was said that 5 of Mark's friends voted him in and I want to make one thing clear. Mark did not come to us: we went to Mark. Mark never approached us. We went to Mark. I suppose--I talked to Phil Derthick last night--I suppose you could say I am a friend of Mark's and Phil Derthick said he is a friend of Mark's. We don't socialize.
The only times I have spoken to Mark are in this building and in the parking lot. I witnessed his swearing in and saw him at Steve Oros's funeral and I may have talked to him two times on the phone, once for committee work and possibly one other time--maybe once when you [Mark] asked me to witness your swearing in. So I guess I am Mark's friend.
We don't socialize; we don't meet at the Upper Deck; we don't meet at anybody's shop; we don't meet anywhere else; we don't go out for a beer. We don't do any of those things, so we are not social friends. We are just friends, and I have a lot of friends. Mark just happens to be one of them.
But that was not why we chose Mark, and he did not choose the committee that chose him--Steve Oros did. I just want to make that very clear. Thank you.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road
John spent a lot of time questioning Vic about the insurance policy and who the agent is. He claimed to have a copy of the policy and was asking questions based on that. The thrust of the questions was to create the impression that Vic was not well versed on the policy. Vic said that he would comment more fully after the meeting when he could take a look at what John Festa had. That did not happen; Festa left before the meeting was adjuourned.
John Festa also frequently mentioned (and mentions) that "We" own the building [Center School] and that "We" should be able to go through it. Vic told him that the building is titled to Mantua Township, the Board of Trustees. He pointed out that it was the trustees who had purchased the building, and not just with Mantua Township residents' tax dollars.
Carol Srajer, 4478 Winchell Road
I am having a real hard time sitting here. It really saddens me that we have spent so much time going over the same thing meeting after meeting after meeting. We never seem to get the point across.
The building is being done. It will house our offices. We will have public use. We are not talking about 2020; we are talking about soon. Has every decision that you guys made been the perfect one? Probably not. Are there other things that maybe could have been done? Maybe so. But you three genelemen have put in an awful lot of time and an awful lot of effort above and beyond anything that we see here.
As far as seeing that building--there was an open house [some time ago] so everyone had a chance to go through it that wanted to. As far as anyone getting in there now other than idle curosity or looking for some reason to cause a problem, there is no reason for anyone getting in there. I would like to see what has been going on. I am curious just like everybody else, but now is not the time.
You have been duly elected to take care of the township's business and it is about damn time that people let you do it.
Carole Pollard: As the English say--hear, hear. Note: the people behind me weren't sure what I said; it was not loud.
Frank Horack: would you repeat that, please. Pollard remained silent. Horack: There was a comment here--I would like to hear it.
Pollard: I said, "As the English say, hear, hear." Note: Both Mr. Horack and I were out of order; his demands interrupted the meeting.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82:
I used to work at Lakeside Sand and Gravel. I guarantee you you are not going to go through that plant while they are operating. Guarantee. Lucky Sand or any other place while they are operating. You will not be able to go into the working area of Stamm Contracting down there in the Village. This is just childish, period. Childish. It has been announced and this is just kicking your heels on the floor saying, "I want to go through it, I want to go through it." That's all it seems like to me.
You guys have been working on that, yes, for 4 years or more now. It seems that even someone in this room [Frank Horack--Blogger's note] acknowledged that you were trading time for money, which is what everybody does who buys a house.
Dave to Jason: Did you pay cash for your house? Answer: No, sir.
Dave: You got a mortgage, right? You're trading time for money. If I were to ask you 10 years from now what you paid for your house, I guarantee you that you would give me the purchase/asking price but not what you paid for it morgage and all, right?
Jason: Yes.
Dave: That is what everybody does, the same as the example Mark gave with buying a truck. You buy a truck and you finance it for 5 years and it costs you $45,000. [But people say they paid $25,000 for that truck.] That extra $20,000 wasn't the cost of the truck--it was the cost of the money. We've got the same situation here, paying off the lease payment.
Mark, Vic--Jason, you're newer at this-- but in the time frame that you have worked on that building, have any roads gone unpaved in order to pay for anything in that building?
Vic--No. We have continued to pay for the roads.
Dave: Have you kept up with the ditches?
V: Yes, we have, with every Issue 2 project we have done ditching. Prior to that, we have done our own additional ditching.
Dave: Have you maintained equipment properly or have you upgraded equipment?
Vic, Mark: Yes. I believe we have.
Dave: You are not still running everything that you had when you came into office, or even when you came in, Jason. I know we bought a backhoe since you came in. So you have upgraded equipment.
V: Yes, we have upgraded.
Dave: Without putting a bond issue on the ballot for any of this.
V: The only issue we have is with the roads.
D: Right--but that was an extra because of the school.
V: No, that has been on for many years.
Dave--Marie, is it true that we have a bigger cash balance now than when you bought the school?
Answer: Yes.
Dave: You have been criticized and accused of not running the township like a business. Now you are being criticized because you have been running it like a well run business and Janet Esposito who I believe is better credentialed than anyone else in this room to know, says that this is one of the best run townships in Portage County. You are running it like a well run business.
Any business man who can take on another building and renovate while keeping up with payroll and everything else would brag about it and would be considered to be doing a good job. Any home owner who bought a second home and kept up with the first and second morgage and renovated the second one and bought new vehicles and put a kid through school would be bragging either actively by saying, "Look what I'm doing," or passively by saying, "It's hard, but I'm keeping up with all that stuff-- I bet you're not able to do that."
You're running it like a well run business and you're being criticized for it. Don't worry about it. Consider the sources and keep on. As far as meeting with the public, remember that the Group of 8 purported to represent the tonwship last year. You met with them, you listened to them, and since then most of what you have heard from them is "slow down, turn around, change your plans. Re-do the whole thing."
You're doing a good job. When we get in there, everybody should be proud of it, and doing the township offices last [they will be on an upper floor] was probably a good thing. Besides--you don't renovate a building from the top down unless you have to start with the roof, which you did not have to do with that building. You renovate a building from the ground up, which is what you are doing. As far as I can see, it looks like you are doing a good job--consider the sources of the criticism. Thank you.
That ended public comment. Executive session followed regarding compensation and discipline. At the end of that session, the trustees returned, opened bids for electrical and plumbing work in the school, and awarded the contracts..
I would like to respond to some comments that were made at the last meeting about Mark Hall and his position as a trustee.
We went over this once before, but I'm going to go over it again because apparently not everyone heard it or [may not have] understood it.
About 15 months before the last trustees' election which was a year ago this past November, Steve Oros took out a nominating petition and on that petition were four names who were to serve as a committee to pick his successor if he was unable to complete his term. I didn't realize at the time that I was on that committee. And the committee consisted of Vic Grimm, Sue Skrovan, Phil Derthick, and myself.
When the committee was called to meet, we did meet and we mutually agreed that the first thing we needed to do was talk to the prosecutor's office to find the scope of what we were supposed to do. Get a legal opinion, in other words.
According to the ORC, the prosecutor gave us the parameters that we had to operate within. We had other questions for the prosecutor, and he said he could not answer them, that we had to get outside legal counsel, which we did, pro bono. We got that information from an attorney who is well versed in township law, village law, county law, etc.
We met again to discuss what we were going to do and we decided that we were going to ask Mark to fill that unexpired term. The reason is we had one new trustee coming on; we felt that the experience and continuity would be [desirable]. Mark had the experience that we were looking for. He also had more votes than anybody else in the township who was not a trustee.
Another thing I wanted to point out was that the statement was made that there were many people that voted against Mark. Any ballot that I have ever seen, you have issues where you vote for or against, or you have candidates where you vote for this person or for that person. There is no box to vote against anyone. So that was kind of a fuzzy statement.
But if you carry that fuzzy logic a little farther, Jason, more people voted against you than voted for you. That's not true; they voted for you, they voted for Vic, and they voted for Mark, not against anyone.
Also it was said that 5 of Mark's friends voted him in and I want to make one thing clear. Mark did not come to us: we went to Mark. Mark never approached us. We went to Mark. I suppose--I talked to Phil Derthick last night--I suppose you could say I am a friend of Mark's and Phil Derthick said he is a friend of Mark's. We don't socialize.
The only times I have spoken to Mark are in this building and in the parking lot. I witnessed his swearing in and saw him at Steve Oros's funeral and I may have talked to him two times on the phone, once for committee work and possibly one other time--maybe once when you [Mark] asked me to witness your swearing in. So I guess I am Mark's friend.
We don't socialize; we don't meet at the Upper Deck; we don't meet at anybody's shop; we don't meet anywhere else; we don't go out for a beer. We don't do any of those things, so we are not social friends. We are just friends, and I have a lot of friends. Mark just happens to be one of them.
But that was not why we chose Mark, and he did not choose the committee that chose him--Steve Oros did. I just want to make that very clear. Thank you.
John Festa, Chamberlin Road
John spent a lot of time questioning Vic about the insurance policy and who the agent is. He claimed to have a copy of the policy and was asking questions based on that. The thrust of the questions was to create the impression that Vic was not well versed on the policy. Vic said that he would comment more fully after the meeting when he could take a look at what John Festa had. That did not happen; Festa left before the meeting was adjuourned.
John Festa also frequently mentioned (and mentions) that "We" own the building [Center School] and that "We" should be able to go through it. Vic told him that the building is titled to Mantua Township, the Board of Trustees. He pointed out that it was the trustees who had purchased the building, and not just with Mantua Township residents' tax dollars.
Carol Srajer, 4478 Winchell Road
I am having a real hard time sitting here. It really saddens me that we have spent so much time going over the same thing meeting after meeting after meeting. We never seem to get the point across.
The building is being done. It will house our offices. We will have public use. We are not talking about 2020; we are talking about soon. Has every decision that you guys made been the perfect one? Probably not. Are there other things that maybe could have been done? Maybe so. But you three genelemen have put in an awful lot of time and an awful lot of effort above and beyond anything that we see here.
As far as seeing that building--there was an open house [some time ago] so everyone had a chance to go through it that wanted to. As far as anyone getting in there now other than idle curosity or looking for some reason to cause a problem, there is no reason for anyone getting in there. I would like to see what has been going on. I am curious just like everybody else, but now is not the time.
You have been duly elected to take care of the township's business and it is about damn time that people let you do it.
Carole Pollard: As the English say--hear, hear. Note: the people behind me weren't sure what I said; it was not loud.
Frank Horack: would you repeat that, please. Pollard remained silent. Horack: There was a comment here--I would like to hear it.
Pollard: I said, "As the English say, hear, hear." Note: Both Mr. Horack and I were out of order; his demands interrupted the meeting.
Dave Pollard, 3692 S.R. 82:
I used to work at Lakeside Sand and Gravel. I guarantee you you are not going to go through that plant while they are operating. Guarantee. Lucky Sand or any other place while they are operating. You will not be able to go into the working area of Stamm Contracting down there in the Village. This is just childish, period. Childish. It has been announced and this is just kicking your heels on the floor saying, "I want to go through it, I want to go through it." That's all it seems like to me.
You guys have been working on that, yes, for 4 years or more now. It seems that even someone in this room [Frank Horack--Blogger's note] acknowledged that you were trading time for money, which is what everybody does who buys a house.
Dave to Jason: Did you pay cash for your house? Answer: No, sir.
Dave: You got a mortgage, right? You're trading time for money. If I were to ask you 10 years from now what you paid for your house, I guarantee you that you would give me the purchase/asking price but not what you paid for it morgage and all, right?
Jason: Yes.
Dave: That is what everybody does, the same as the example Mark gave with buying a truck. You buy a truck and you finance it for 5 years and it costs you $45,000. [But people say they paid $25,000 for that truck.] That extra $20,000 wasn't the cost of the truck--it was the cost of the money. We've got the same situation here, paying off the lease payment.
Mark, Vic--Jason, you're newer at this-- but in the time frame that you have worked on that building, have any roads gone unpaved in order to pay for anything in that building?
Vic--No. We have continued to pay for the roads.
Dave: Have you kept up with the ditches?
V: Yes, we have, with every Issue 2 project we have done ditching. Prior to that, we have done our own additional ditching.
Dave: Have you maintained equipment properly or have you upgraded equipment?
Vic, Mark: Yes. I believe we have.
Dave: You are not still running everything that you had when you came into office, or even when you came in, Jason. I know we bought a backhoe since you came in. So you have upgraded equipment.
V: Yes, we have upgraded.
Dave: Without putting a bond issue on the ballot for any of this.
V: The only issue we have is with the roads.
D: Right--but that was an extra because of the school.
V: No, that has been on for many years.
Dave--Marie, is it true that we have a bigger cash balance now than when you bought the school?
Answer: Yes.
Dave: You have been criticized and accused of not running the township like a business. Now you are being criticized because you have been running it like a well run business and Janet Esposito who I believe is better credentialed than anyone else in this room to know, says that this is one of the best run townships in Portage County. You are running it like a well run business.
Any business man who can take on another building and renovate while keeping up with payroll and everything else would brag about it and would be considered to be doing a good job. Any home owner who bought a second home and kept up with the first and second morgage and renovated the second one and bought new vehicles and put a kid through school would be bragging either actively by saying, "Look what I'm doing," or passively by saying, "It's hard, but I'm keeping up with all that stuff-- I bet you're not able to do that."
You're running it like a well run business and you're being criticized for it. Don't worry about it. Consider the sources and keep on. As far as meeting with the public, remember that the Group of 8 purported to represent the tonwship last year. You met with them, you listened to them, and since then most of what you have heard from them is "slow down, turn around, change your plans. Re-do the whole thing."
You're doing a good job. When we get in there, everybody should be proud of it, and doing the township offices last [they will be on an upper floor] was probably a good thing. Besides--you don't renovate a building from the top down unless you have to start with the roof, which you did not have to do with that building. You renovate a building from the ground up, which is what you are doing. As far as I can see, it looks like you are doing a good job--consider the sources of the criticism. Thank you.
That ended public comment. Executive session followed regarding compensation and discipline. At the end of that session, the trustees returned, opened bids for electrical and plumbing work in the school, and awarded the contracts..
Thursday, March 3, 2011
Limerick for February 20, 2011
We (or maybe just I) need a break from the keyboarding of the public comments from the February 3 meeting, so here is Dave's limerick for last week:
That "Group of 8" proposed no plan,
But said trustees were clueless,
Said Center School work took too long--
Then demanded trustees do less.
Will you support a "Group of 8" man?
Note: "Support" as in "vote for."
That "Group of 8" proposed no plan,
But said trustees were clueless,
Said Center School work took too long--
Then demanded trustees do less.
Will you support a "Group of 8" man?
Note: "Support" as in "vote for."
Wednesday, March 2, 2011
Public Comment 2/3/11, Part 2
Graham Harmon, 11793 Center Road, 11081 S.R. 44, 11915 S.R. 44
I am not going to tell you I have lived in the community for my whole life because it would make some of you guys feel really old. I have been in business for 23 years. There are some things, coming to a few of these meetings, that really concern me as the direction the township is going. I realize that you guys as trustees are under the gun all the time and it is pretty much a thankless job and you have to put up with stupid comments from us people as the public and public speakers. However, there are some things that really concern me and I hate to put you under the gun but I guess I have to.
Jason came around on the campaign and knocked on my door and showed up at my house and said, "I am going to run for township trustee." He handed me a flyer and in that flyer were a couple of things that I noticed. He said, "I feel like I have fresh ideas that could benefit the township. I would like to start an informal website to get the information out about what the township is doing and their accomplishments.. I want to listen and work with the community to better the township."
I thought that was a great idea, so I voted for him. I came to a few of these meetings and last week Mark in public comment when Alan [Brugmann] asked you why you wanted to be a township trustee and your answer was that you enjoy it. I think that it is great that you enjoy it but also that part of the enjoyment of being a trustee is that you need to remember that you have a responsibility to the taxpayers and you need to listen to what the taxpayers are saying. A lot of the ideas that Jason has brought to the table and that he has campaigned about that I have sat in these meetings, you two have regularly voted no against. I would kind of like to know why.
A website is a great idea. As a business owner I wanted to promote my business. I am absolutely computer illiterate--I am a dummy. I am a hillbilly. I don't know how to do computers. I contacted a couple of people [and] for $90.00 a year we have a website. You can go onto our website and we list our labor rates; we have jobs that we took from the very beginning that were totally smashed and we have them in different stages--you can see them from start to finish. We have a place where people can put comments. We can respond to those comments [and] we can [post] those comments. It is a great interaction with our customer base.
The same thing for you guys. You have been working on the Center School. You can use that as a vital tool to promote the work that you are doing so that you don't have people in here putting you under the gun all the time. I have sat on several buildting committees mostly with Crestwood Schools; I was there when the school [system?] evaluated these elementary buildings. Mantua Center School was the absolute worst building the Crestwood school system had. It was deemed not fit to educate kids. It wasn't fair to the taxpayers to put any money into that for education. Yet the township purchased that building and we are going to try to do something that has already not been cost effective. Jerry Carlton bought the Village school. It cost him $1-1/2 million to renovate it before they moved into it. That didn't count the actual purchase of the building. Usually when you go into a project like this you purchase a building and [if] it involves taxpayers' money the first thing you do is form a committee. That committee would consist of 6-8 people. There might be several business owners, there might be some educators, it might be somebody from zoning, it might be a trustee, it might be your clerk. Typically the job of that committee is to do an outreach in the community and find out what they really feel the need for that building is.
Jason suggested a survey and you guys didn't even discuss it. The gymnasium over there, I 100% agree that the township needs a place to have these meetings and a place for an ofice for Marie that is accessible so you don't have to go to her house to get information. That building in my opinion right now, that's what we should be doing, is doing the township offices over there in that school system to where you could have these meetings so that when someone walks in the door, [he] doesn't have everyone turn around and look to see who is coming in the building. I just wonder as far as the gymnasium if you look at Ravenna it's I believe it's the armory building down there. They put a rec center down there. They have Nautilus weights. It was opened up to the community in a matter of no time. They charge people that live in that community a very minimal rate, they can come in, they can work out, they have a llittle walking track in there. I just wondered if anything like that would have been considered. You could have probably gotten some input like that if you went out to the community and reached to those people.
Mark Hall: Graham, not to cut you short, but you are going over . . .
Graham: Interrupted: I am almost done.
Mark: You are over your five minutes, Graham.
Graham: Well, I have gotten two other -- I am speaking for my wife and Gina.
Mark: No, you are speaking for yourself.
Graham: I own five properties in this townsship that I pay taxes on and I am not done. I don't come to these meetings and ever [?]/never[?] speak and I am going to take advantage of this time right now, Mark. I have two more things. I appreciate the time. . .
Mark: Graham. . . .We do have a time limit that everybody is to follow. I'm sorry. We are going to move on.
Graham: Well, are you going to answer any of my questions? Do you want me to go back and go through it?
Mark: I heard a lot of statements. I did not hear . . .
Graham (interrupting): Well, my one question was why you and Vic whenever Jason brings up anmy of his ideas to promote this township to get us out of the Mayberry RFD era, why did you two always vote no?
Vic: I don't think we always vote no, Graham.
Graham: Anything to update you have, his idea for the website, he brought up suggestions about time cards for the employees, you voted that down, the idea of the survey, you wouldn't even bring it up for discussion.
NOTE: Vic tried to respond, but Graham talked over him.
Vic: It's been discussed many times, Graham. Just like everything you brought up has been discussed many times.
Graham: It has?
Vic: Yes, it has.
Graham: You went out and reached out to the community to find out what they would want to do with that school?
Vic: We didn't go out, but we looked into a study when we first--even before we bought the school.
Graham: What was the cost of renovation on that building?
Vic: There was no projected cost in that proposal of what it was going to cost. It was done by another architect at the time in 2003, I believe.
Graham: Interrupted: Neither was intelligible for a sentence or two because of the interruption.
Continued: What are we going to pay for this? Where is all the money going to come from to renovate the whole building? Are we putting a bond issue out? How are we going to pay for the renbovations on the whole building?
Vic: We haven't put a bond issue out. We have been paying for it all along. You know we had meetings and everyone said to go for grants and we went and got grants. We approached everything that we could and went for grants and you are absolutely right. The number 1 object [tenant] for that building from the very start is for Mantua Township. So it's been discussed. That's what we purchased it for--all the other items like the gymnasium fall under assembly. That was one section. One section falls under busines, which is for the offices for the township. The other section falls under education, which means that we have to stay with part of the building as education for all of this compliance.
Graham: OK. I can appreciate that--so you go get drawings to do each phase of that building, so you have drawings.
Vic--We have, and yes, several, so far.
Graham: What is the total cost of that porject?
Vic: Just like this evening, as we went through this plumbing and stuff--there was a projected cost for the phase for the gym, and that had a contingency in it. This was done by the architect., This is a 15% contingency in it, and the total was $104,875.
Graham: That was for the gymn?
V: That was for this annex area, and this involved the outside area site work for parking and everything. That came in at $43,125 on the estimate. We had it done for $22,152. Just like tonight, the electrical work was estimated at $19,895. We had three bids tonight on the electrical work that were much under that.
Vic: Plumbing: $8,050. All the bids of the plubming came in under that. So we have been very responsible with the taxpayers' money.
Graham--interrupted: I'm not saying you not being responsible, but what I am sayinmg is - --
Vic: What I'm trying to do, Graham, is we are trying to get a central location and this is what I have said all along. If we can get a central location, when we have an office, that is the time to put in the website. Right now, we are all working out of our own homes or our own offices.
Graham: Shouldn't that be kind of your main concern right now is the offices and do that? I guess the thing that scares me as a taxpayer is that you guys purchased this building somewhere around June of 2004, correct, or July?
Vic: Probably closer to August.
Graham: You started the building project around 2006. I am not sure when.
Vic: Somewhere around there because it took a while for the first permits because we went for the education--we wanted to stay with the education. Iit was the most strict. We stayed with that to get in and that's what we started with.
Graham: I am nust wondering if--be patient with me--I haven't been coming to meetings and I want to know for myself--typically when you do a project like this and as I said I have sat on a lot of these committees--you find out first what and you obviously know what you want to do. You want township offices. You know I would like to see a rec center, a gym, whatever--you have your idea about a gym.
Vic: That's assembly. The gymnasium falls under assembly.
Graham: And you have your education in the bottom [of the building]..
Vic: Education would cover that section at this time, but it can be extended to other parts, but the assembly part falls under multipurpose use, which you are saying like a rec center or we thought because of the kitchen another use was for emergency shelter if we were to have an emergency because we have the kitchen. The Fire Department most likely is not going to be able to handle Shalersville, Mantua Village, and Mantua Township, but if they were to bring a squad up here, we know if we had a generator we would be self-contained. We have water, we have sewer, we have electricity, and if we had a generator, and that is something we looked into with all these Homeland Security grants, but most of that stuff goes to fire and police before it goes anywhere else. So the gymnasium is a multipurpose section--the main thing is we would love to see everybody in that building to vote so that we are not separated.
At one time we voted in this building [Township Hall] and in the Civic Center. We worked hard last year to get two of the three precincts back into the Civic Center to meet the ADA requirements. That's the gymnasium--we could have everybody in there. That's why we set up the parking the way that we did and everything like that. Things have been going really well. We went after a NOPEC grand and received $50,000, and there may be a Stage 2 that we will apply for that. Not only would that go for a second NOPEC grant for the gym, but also to apply to this building.
Graham: In your opinion, Vic, what is the first priority in that building and second priority--I mean you are
looking at this as a 3-phase project and you started on it in '06. This is 2011 [and] you're still not done and then you're going to go into phase 2--you're just going to carry it out for years?
Vic: No. I believe we are in phase 2. We have a permit--
Graham: Interrupting: What is Phase 1?
Vic: Phase 1 would be the education.
G: And that's not done yet.
V: No.
G: Phase 2 is what?
V: Phase 2 is the gymnasium and annex area.
G.: And you are going to wait to do your offices last?
V: That is the business [use]; out of the 3 that is supposed to be the easiest.
G: Really.
V: That's what we have been told. Now we have a rapport with Portage County [the Building Department], there has been a change down there and things have worked in our favor with that change. We are proceeding very well--we didn't get the OK on the prints for Phase 2 until October and before the end of November, we had the parking lot put in and handicapped parking and all that. That's what we are proceeding with, the electrical and the plumbing for that area.
Graham: OK, so you got Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and you're getting bids on Phase 1 now, which is your education portion, but you have no idea what the whole three phases together are going to cost the township.
Vic: Not at this time.
Graham: How are you going to finance that?
Vic: Well, the building itself we financed through a lease-purchase agreement.
Graham: Well, I guess you are just planning on continually dragging this out year after year after year as you go. Are you eventually going to say "Let's get this project done and put a bond issue on . . ."get it done and finish it so the community can use ir or what . . .
Vic: We should be finished with Phase 2 in the spring and can start using the gymnasium. Then the other permit, we hope to be Phase 1, we look to be done with that before April so those two portions we can be using this year.
G: I'm done, Mark. Sorry.
Public speaking time limit is 5 minutes per person. Graham took 17 minutes.
I am not going to tell you I have lived in the community for my whole life because it would make some of you guys feel really old. I have been in business for 23 years. There are some things, coming to a few of these meetings, that really concern me as the direction the township is going. I realize that you guys as trustees are under the gun all the time and it is pretty much a thankless job and you have to put up with stupid comments from us people as the public and public speakers. However, there are some things that really concern me and I hate to put you under the gun but I guess I have to.
Jason came around on the campaign and knocked on my door and showed up at my house and said, "I am going to run for township trustee." He handed me a flyer and in that flyer were a couple of things that I noticed. He said, "I feel like I have fresh ideas that could benefit the township. I would like to start an informal website to get the information out about what the township is doing and their accomplishments.. I want to listen and work with the community to better the township."
I thought that was a great idea, so I voted for him. I came to a few of these meetings and last week Mark in public comment when Alan [Brugmann] asked you why you wanted to be a township trustee and your answer was that you enjoy it. I think that it is great that you enjoy it but also that part of the enjoyment of being a trustee is that you need to remember that you have a responsibility to the taxpayers and you need to listen to what the taxpayers are saying. A lot of the ideas that Jason has brought to the table and that he has campaigned about that I have sat in these meetings, you two have regularly voted no against. I would kind of like to know why.
A website is a great idea. As a business owner I wanted to promote my business. I am absolutely computer illiterate--I am a dummy. I am a hillbilly. I don't know how to do computers. I contacted a couple of people [and] for $90.00 a year we have a website. You can go onto our website and we list our labor rates; we have jobs that we took from the very beginning that were totally smashed and we have them in different stages--you can see them from start to finish. We have a place where people can put comments. We can respond to those comments [and] we can [post] those comments. It is a great interaction with our customer base.
The same thing for you guys. You have been working on the Center School. You can use that as a vital tool to promote the work that you are doing so that you don't have people in here putting you under the gun all the time. I have sat on several buildting committees mostly with Crestwood Schools; I was there when the school [system?] evaluated these elementary buildings. Mantua Center School was the absolute worst building the Crestwood school system had. It was deemed not fit to educate kids. It wasn't fair to the taxpayers to put any money into that for education. Yet the township purchased that building and we are going to try to do something that has already not been cost effective. Jerry Carlton bought the Village school. It cost him $1-1/2 million to renovate it before they moved into it. That didn't count the actual purchase of the building. Usually when you go into a project like this you purchase a building and [if] it involves taxpayers' money the first thing you do is form a committee. That committee would consist of 6-8 people. There might be several business owners, there might be some educators, it might be somebody from zoning, it might be a trustee, it might be your clerk. Typically the job of that committee is to do an outreach in the community and find out what they really feel the need for that building is.
Jason suggested a survey and you guys didn't even discuss it. The gymnasium over there, I 100% agree that the township needs a place to have these meetings and a place for an ofice for Marie that is accessible so you don't have to go to her house to get information. That building in my opinion right now, that's what we should be doing, is doing the township offices over there in that school system to where you could have these meetings so that when someone walks in the door, [he] doesn't have everyone turn around and look to see who is coming in the building. I just wonder as far as the gymnasium if you look at Ravenna it's I believe it's the armory building down there. They put a rec center down there. They have Nautilus weights. It was opened up to the community in a matter of no time. They charge people that live in that community a very minimal rate, they can come in, they can work out, they have a llittle walking track in there. I just wondered if anything like that would have been considered. You could have probably gotten some input like that if you went out to the community and reached to those people.
Mark Hall: Graham, not to cut you short, but you are going over . . .
Graham: Interrupted: I am almost done.
Mark: You are over your five minutes, Graham.
Graham: Well, I have gotten two other -- I am speaking for my wife and Gina.
Mark: No, you are speaking for yourself.
Graham: I own five properties in this townsship that I pay taxes on and I am not done. I don't come to these meetings and ever [?]/never[?] speak and I am going to take advantage of this time right now, Mark. I have two more things. I appreciate the time. . .
Mark: Graham. . . .We do have a time limit that everybody is to follow. I'm sorry. We are going to move on.
Graham: Well, are you going to answer any of my questions? Do you want me to go back and go through it?
Mark: I heard a lot of statements. I did not hear . . .
Graham (interrupting): Well, my one question was why you and Vic whenever Jason brings up anmy of his ideas to promote this township to get us out of the Mayberry RFD era, why did you two always vote no?
Vic: I don't think we always vote no, Graham.
Graham: Anything to update you have, his idea for the website, he brought up suggestions about time cards for the employees, you voted that down, the idea of the survey, you wouldn't even bring it up for discussion.
NOTE: Vic tried to respond, but Graham talked over him.
Vic: It's been discussed many times, Graham. Just like everything you brought up has been discussed many times.
Graham: It has?
Vic: Yes, it has.
Graham: You went out and reached out to the community to find out what they would want to do with that school?
Vic: We didn't go out, but we looked into a study when we first--even before we bought the school.
Graham: What was the cost of renovation on that building?
Vic: There was no projected cost in that proposal of what it was going to cost. It was done by another architect at the time in 2003, I believe.
Graham: Interrupted: Neither was intelligible for a sentence or two because of the interruption.
Continued: What are we going to pay for this? Where is all the money going to come from to renovate the whole building? Are we putting a bond issue out? How are we going to pay for the renbovations on the whole building?
Vic: We haven't put a bond issue out. We have been paying for it all along. You know we had meetings and everyone said to go for grants and we went and got grants. We approached everything that we could and went for grants and you are absolutely right. The number 1 object [tenant] for that building from the very start is for Mantua Township. So it's been discussed. That's what we purchased it for--all the other items like the gymnasium fall under assembly. That was one section. One section falls under busines, which is for the offices for the township. The other section falls under education, which means that we have to stay with part of the building as education for all of this compliance.
Graham: OK. I can appreciate that--so you go get drawings to do each phase of that building, so you have drawings.
Vic--We have, and yes, several, so far.
Graham: What is the total cost of that porject?
Vic: Just like this evening, as we went through this plumbing and stuff--there was a projected cost for the phase for the gym, and that had a contingency in it. This was done by the architect., This is a 15% contingency in it, and the total was $104,875.
Graham: That was for the gymn?
V: That was for this annex area, and this involved the outside area site work for parking and everything. That came in at $43,125 on the estimate. We had it done for $22,152. Just like tonight, the electrical work was estimated at $19,895. We had three bids tonight on the electrical work that were much under that.
Vic: Plumbing: $8,050. All the bids of the plubming came in under that. So we have been very responsible with the taxpayers' money.
Graham--interrupted: I'm not saying you not being responsible, but what I am sayinmg is - --
Vic: What I'm trying to do, Graham, is we are trying to get a central location and this is what I have said all along. If we can get a central location, when we have an office, that is the time to put in the website. Right now, we are all working out of our own homes or our own offices.
Graham: Shouldn't that be kind of your main concern right now is the offices and do that? I guess the thing that scares me as a taxpayer is that you guys purchased this building somewhere around June of 2004, correct, or July?
Vic: Probably closer to August.
Graham: You started the building project around 2006. I am not sure when.
Vic: Somewhere around there because it took a while for the first permits because we went for the education--we wanted to stay with the education. Iit was the most strict. We stayed with that to get in and that's what we started with.
Graham: I am nust wondering if--be patient with me--I haven't been coming to meetings and I want to know for myself--typically when you do a project like this and as I said I have sat on a lot of these committees--you find out first what and you obviously know what you want to do. You want township offices. You know I would like to see a rec center, a gym, whatever--you have your idea about a gym.
Vic: That's assembly. The gymnasium falls under assembly.
Graham: And you have your education in the bottom [of the building]..
Vic: Education would cover that section at this time, but it can be extended to other parts, but the assembly part falls under multipurpose use, which you are saying like a rec center or we thought because of the kitchen another use was for emergency shelter if we were to have an emergency because we have the kitchen. The Fire Department most likely is not going to be able to handle Shalersville, Mantua Village, and Mantua Township, but if they were to bring a squad up here, we know if we had a generator we would be self-contained. We have water, we have sewer, we have electricity, and if we had a generator, and that is something we looked into with all these Homeland Security grants, but most of that stuff goes to fire and police before it goes anywhere else. So the gymnasium is a multipurpose section--the main thing is we would love to see everybody in that building to vote so that we are not separated.
At one time we voted in this building [Township Hall] and in the Civic Center. We worked hard last year to get two of the three precincts back into the Civic Center to meet the ADA requirements. That's the gymnasium--we could have everybody in there. That's why we set up the parking the way that we did and everything like that. Things have been going really well. We went after a NOPEC grand and received $50,000, and there may be a Stage 2 that we will apply for that. Not only would that go for a second NOPEC grant for the gym, but also to apply to this building.
Graham: In your opinion, Vic, what is the first priority in that building and second priority--I mean you are
looking at this as a 3-phase project and you started on it in '06. This is 2011 [and] you're still not done and then you're going to go into phase 2--you're just going to carry it out for years?
Vic: No. I believe we are in phase 2. We have a permit--
Graham: Interrupting: What is Phase 1?
Vic: Phase 1 would be the education.
G: And that's not done yet.
V: No.
G: Phase 2 is what?
V: Phase 2 is the gymnasium and annex area.
G.: And you are going to wait to do your offices last?
V: That is the business [use]; out of the 3 that is supposed to be the easiest.
G: Really.
V: That's what we have been told. Now we have a rapport with Portage County [the Building Department], there has been a change down there and things have worked in our favor with that change. We are proceeding very well--we didn't get the OK on the prints for Phase 2 until October and before the end of November, we had the parking lot put in and handicapped parking and all that. That's what we are proceeding with, the electrical and the plumbing for that area.
Graham: OK, so you got Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and you're getting bids on Phase 1 now, which is your education portion, but you have no idea what the whole three phases together are going to cost the township.
Vic: Not at this time.
Graham: How are you going to finance that?
Vic: Well, the building itself we financed through a lease-purchase agreement.
Graham: Well, I guess you are just planning on continually dragging this out year after year after year as you go. Are you eventually going to say "Let's get this project done and put a bond issue on . . ."get it done and finish it so the community can use ir or what . . .
Vic: We should be finished with Phase 2 in the spring and can start using the gymnasium. Then the other permit, we hope to be Phase 1, we look to be done with that before April so those two portions we can be using this year.
G: I'm done, Mark. Sorry.
Public speaking time limit is 5 minutes per person. Graham took 17 minutes.
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