The subject line sort of tells it. Despite a number of comments proposing alternatives and describing the history--the relevant history--of this project, of which this is the fourth iteration, the train kept running and the veterans' memorial has been given the go-ahead for the green.
As of about 4:00 p.m., one tree--the only concession by the group behind the memorial, and also the only stipulation by the trustees--had been cut or was being cut.
Letters have been written and largely ignored or spun.
Ignorance of who is responsible for what has been demonstrated, and people who have done their share and have contributed to the historic area at the Center have been accused of doing nothing or being irresponsible.
I am not going to do anything with this wad right away, but it will get handled.
This weekend is the Township clean-up day, which has been discussed in meetings and possibly advertised in the paper--I have not looked--but seems to have had little publicity except for what Vic and Sue got around to a few places.
Here is the little information I have: The location is at the Township garage. Traffic southbound on Center Road will be blocked. Entrance to the drop-off area is from the south. The Township is taking tires, probably for a small fee, but it's a good way to get rid of them, especially if they are dismounted and holding water (and mosquito larvae, very soon).
Hours: 7:30a.m. or so to 4:00p.m. No construction materials, and no pure trash.
Friday, May 3, 2013
Wednesday, May 1, 2013
Public Comment Wrap-up, mostly roads
Foreword: Sections of Public Comment have already been posted, edited to put comments on the same topic together. This section (and I hope it can get done in one post) is about various townsip roads, with one thing about our copy machine and one about the piano in the Township Hall.
Amy Janca: In reviewing your road work, I think last year we had questions about Winchell and you thought you would be able to get it into this year's schedule. What happened? That north section of Chamberlin and Winchell there has a water drainage problem that might be causing the township a lot of grief.
Vic: We put that in our Round 27 for last year and did not make the cut. We also put it in for local small governments and were just out of the cut. We did not even make it for alternate on either plan.
Amy: So we may not be looking at any noticeable relief until next year.
Vic: We may be looking at that for all of our roads.
Jason pointed out that we have 37 miles of roads and only worked on 5.3 miles. He explained the rationale for how things were done last year. He thought that maybe not getting the grants might not be so bad because the township could do a lot of chip and seal.
Amy asked about getting the county out to check the water situation. The county came out one time last year.
Linda Ehlert: I wanted to give you an update on the piano. A friend of Ellie Monroe's came and disassembled some of the wood. We can not find anyone to take it for repair.
Jason asked Larry Leitzow about it, and he was OK with getting rid of it. [The piano had belonged to Larry's mother, who had been very active in the historical society.]
Barbara Herbold: The corner of Wayne and Sheldon: Are you going to do any berming before the chip and seal? There is water coming out of people's driveways.
Brian Tayerle: Our roads have not been bermed for 7 years because it makes a mess. We are going to do that on Wayne Road.
Vic: Normally we have always bermed as we ditched. Zoka (sp?) always did that. You have to get it out and clean it up.
Mark Hall: [Mark's comments as President of The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., have already been posted. These are, as he said, comments wearing his resident's hat.]
About the copy machine: Do we still have a maintenance agreement? What about getting the insurance to fix it?
Vic: I was there the day he showed up and there was a problem about the cartridge. I think we should get him out there and find out what is going on. He wanted to leave, but I had him look at some of the feed problems.
Mark: Can you not make the CDs yourself? [Blogger: I believe these are the CD's for the zoning book.]
Jason: It is more convenient to have an outside service do that.
Mark: Regarding Tierney Bryant: with a cell phone she can forward all calls and she has the ability to transfer all calls to a central location. [This concluded Mark's comments, at which time he gave Marie Stehli the check from The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., to pay HEPA Environmental Services to remove the asbestos from the pipe in the basement. If you have not read some of the previous posts, FYI, that insulation has been removed.]
Dave Pollard: [Dave had commented earlier on the fact that not one but two trees are marked for cutting down. His remarks here are about the roads.]
Whenever you go to Winchell you will notice that there is a culvert that is bad. There is a hole in the pavement. I know you are going to have to do something with Old Taylor Woods and am afraid when you get more traffic on Meadow Brook it is going to to be on clay. I wish the townships statewide had more teeth to prevent the developers from doing roads and then turning them over to us [to solve the problems].
I wonder if in the long run, since that road will be there forever (if you want to talk about a money pit),
dig out a long way and do it right. It might be less expensive in the long run. [Dave's remark was aimed at digging down far enough to remove the clay, which becomes very plastic when it is wet and works the road. It would take maybe as much as three feet (I think--Blogger) to get the clay out.
Jason mentioned grinding the surface.
Dave: That does not get into the clay.
[These are my notes for the next remark: Jason backed and filled a lot about that suggestion, citing expense.]
Dave: I am well aware that it is expensive. Diagonal Road, a county road, has never been done right and is patched and patched and patched. I just wondered if it might be a good idea to do a percentage right every year.
Dan Cozzens: On Winchell Road, it is going to take more than just paving it. It floods from Townline to Chamberlin. I would be willing to wait a year or two to have it done right because it is bad.
Vic: We have put cross-culvert pipes there in order to deal with the water.
Public Comment ended at 9:35.
Amy Janca: In reviewing your road work, I think last year we had questions about Winchell and you thought you would be able to get it into this year's schedule. What happened? That north section of Chamberlin and Winchell there has a water drainage problem that might be causing the township a lot of grief.
Vic: We put that in our Round 27 for last year and did not make the cut. We also put it in for local small governments and were just out of the cut. We did not even make it for alternate on either plan.
Amy: So we may not be looking at any noticeable relief until next year.
Vic: We may be looking at that for all of our roads.
Jason pointed out that we have 37 miles of roads and only worked on 5.3 miles. He explained the rationale for how things were done last year. He thought that maybe not getting the grants might not be so bad because the township could do a lot of chip and seal.
Amy asked about getting the county out to check the water situation. The county came out one time last year.
Linda Ehlert: I wanted to give you an update on the piano. A friend of Ellie Monroe's came and disassembled some of the wood. We can not find anyone to take it for repair.
Jason asked Larry Leitzow about it, and he was OK with getting rid of it. [The piano had belonged to Larry's mother, who had been very active in the historical society.]
Barbara Herbold: The corner of Wayne and Sheldon: Are you going to do any berming before the chip and seal? There is water coming out of people's driveways.
Brian Tayerle: Our roads have not been bermed for 7 years because it makes a mess. We are going to do that on Wayne Road.
Vic: Normally we have always bermed as we ditched. Zoka (sp?) always did that. You have to get it out and clean it up.
Mark Hall: [Mark's comments as President of The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., have already been posted. These are, as he said, comments wearing his resident's hat.]
About the copy machine: Do we still have a maintenance agreement? What about getting the insurance to fix it?
Vic: I was there the day he showed up and there was a problem about the cartridge. I think we should get him out there and find out what is going on. He wanted to leave, but I had him look at some of the feed problems.
Mark: Can you not make the CDs yourself? [Blogger: I believe these are the CD's for the zoning book.]
Jason: It is more convenient to have an outside service do that.
Mark: Regarding Tierney Bryant: with a cell phone she can forward all calls and she has the ability to transfer all calls to a central location. [This concluded Mark's comments, at which time he gave Marie Stehli the check from The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., to pay HEPA Environmental Services to remove the asbestos from the pipe in the basement. If you have not read some of the previous posts, FYI, that insulation has been removed.]
Dave Pollard: [Dave had commented earlier on the fact that not one but two trees are marked for cutting down. His remarks here are about the roads.]
Whenever you go to Winchell you will notice that there is a culvert that is bad. There is a hole in the pavement. I know you are going to have to do something with Old Taylor Woods and am afraid when you get more traffic on Meadow Brook it is going to to be on clay. I wish the townships statewide had more teeth to prevent the developers from doing roads and then turning them over to us [to solve the problems].
I wonder if in the long run, since that road will be there forever (if you want to talk about a money pit),
dig out a long way and do it right. It might be less expensive in the long run. [Dave's remark was aimed at digging down far enough to remove the clay, which becomes very plastic when it is wet and works the road. It would take maybe as much as three feet (I think--Blogger) to get the clay out.
Jason mentioned grinding the surface.
Dave: That does not get into the clay.
[These are my notes for the next remark: Jason backed and filled a lot about that suggestion, citing expense.]
Dave: I am well aware that it is expensive. Diagonal Road, a county road, has never been done right and is patched and patched and patched. I just wondered if it might be a good idea to do a percentage right every year.
Dan Cozzens: On Winchell Road, it is going to take more than just paving it. It floods from Townline to Chamberlin. I would be willing to wait a year or two to have it done right because it is bad.
Vic: We have put cross-culvert pipes there in order to deal with the water.
Public Comment ended at 9:35.
Monday, April 29, 2013
4-18-13 Mantua Township Trustees
Other old business was next.
John Festa: I had a conversation with Tierney Bryant about phones. She thought that a cell phone for the Zoning Inspector would be desirable. I would like for her to have her own phone and the phone number being used for both the Zoning Inspector and sexton to go to that one.
To Jim Aldrich: If you want a number at the school or [of?] your own, that would be OK. ["Of" makes more sense; I may have mis-written that word.]
Jason: The issue I did not realize with Tierney Bryant is that receiving phone calls would not be an issue. Returning calls would be a problem. She said that now on one of those callbacks a resident had her personal cell phone and she was getting calls on her own phone--not desirable.
Vic: The phones are in at the building. We are paying the monthly fee on that right now. There would be no added cost with that.
Jason: What Tierney conveyed to me is that she is working from home and is on the road and she would have to come back here to call people back and not have them on her personal cell phone. There would be an added cost to an additional line or a cell phone. It would be a township cell phone.
Marie Stehli: How is this going to be paid for?
Jason: Move it from the zoning.
Marie stated that the number is $75.00 per month.
Jason thought it would be less than that.
Vic: Would the number still ring into the school?
Jason thought this was flexible.
John Festa: I don't see any reason for anyone else to have a phone.
Jim Aldrich: I am fine with the way it is working.
Vic: The 9663 number will not ring in there any more.
Jim: You are going to do away with it?
Jason: In order to help Tierney, because she is on the phone a lot, we either get her her own number or use the zoning number. People have been using the same number for both for a long time. We would have to get another number for the cemetery line. There is nothing convenient about this.
[Blogger: I wonder if it really is all that complicated, or whether it is being made complicated.]
Jason: [I believe] What about blocking her number on calling out?
Vic: It is ringing in there right now. If we drop that there will probably be an increase [in cost]. We are getting that plan because we have used it for so long. If we change it, the cost will go up. Maybe we can see if there is a way of blocking her number. That way calls can still come in on the answering machine.
Jason: I think that is worth looking into.
Vic: That would be a lot less money to put out.
Marie: But from a tax standpoint she will be added in there.
John Festa quibbled about that.
Marie: John, I am a CPA. If she carries it, it is taxed to her.
Vic: For the cemetery we need two days notice. We don't have to get back to things in 10 minutes. These are part time jobs, and no one has to be sitting there to get calls.
Marie: I want you to know the consequences.
John Festa: Then we will deal with the consequences. [Blogger: I believe the translation of this may be, "Then we will pay more money."]
Jason asked John Festa to look into it.
[Blogger: OK, why all this fuss over phones? John Festa's objective is to prevent every possible act and feature that would establish the building as an operating government center, and he is willing to spend the taxpayers' money to do it. Putting phones and offices and filing cabinets into the building makes a statement which John Festa wants to avoid: that this is our building and that we are using it. If we are more or less just camping out in it, then it has never been "claimed" and can easily be discarded.]
Public Comment came next, some of which has been presented in earlier posts for this meeting.
Carol Srajer: Nothing.
Brian Summerlin, Old Taylor Woods: I am glad to hear you are going to work on the roads. Did you include Bevington Court and Huntington Way?
Jason: They all have the same problems, but we only have 700 feet that we can do. We have to spend and exorbitant amount and we can not even have gotten ahead of that years ago. We want to take care of the entrance.
Brian: Are you going to rebase the road or just repave it? You are not getting into the dirt and hauling anything out?
Jason: Probably not.
Vic: We have had that area around the cul de sac turn up a couple of times. Every one of those cross culverts there has no gravel. All of it is set on clay. At the time it was done, it was proof-rolled. Every cross culvert dips.
Brian: The development is 15 years old and has never had any comprehensive repaving. It is well overdue.
Vic: That is what we will be looking at as well. We have a list of what we can put on. It does not need so much work--we might be able to tie it into an Issue 2 project.
Brian: Do you have a time when you might begin working on it?
Jason: Plants are not open yet.
Brian: Maybe June or July? Jason: It is in the __?__.
Brian also asked about the Township cleanup day, and Vic answered that it is May 4, with a shredding day on May 18.
Dottie Summerlin was representing the Mantua Historical Society. We just want to remind everyone that the green is part of the National Register of Historic Places. We need to monitor it to be sure that we do not destroy the integrity of the green. The historical society would love to be part of the monitoring.
Vic: I wish Frank Horack were here.
Dottie: According to what they told us, it should not overwhelm the area.
Vic: asked about when the trees were first planted. Apparently it was 1901-1906. Have you ever seen that? It is upstairs. [Blogger: This may have been a reference to a photograph of the green then.]
Note: It will take one more post to complete this meeting. This is long enough for one sitting. Most of the rest of the discussion was about roads.
John Festa: I had a conversation with Tierney Bryant about phones. She thought that a cell phone for the Zoning Inspector would be desirable. I would like for her to have her own phone and the phone number being used for both the Zoning Inspector and sexton to go to that one.
To Jim Aldrich: If you want a number at the school or [of?] your own, that would be OK. ["Of" makes more sense; I may have mis-written that word.]
Jason: The issue I did not realize with Tierney Bryant is that receiving phone calls would not be an issue. Returning calls would be a problem. She said that now on one of those callbacks a resident had her personal cell phone and she was getting calls on her own phone--not desirable.
Vic: The phones are in at the building. We are paying the monthly fee on that right now. There would be no added cost with that.
Jason: What Tierney conveyed to me is that she is working from home and is on the road and she would have to come back here to call people back and not have them on her personal cell phone. There would be an added cost to an additional line or a cell phone. It would be a township cell phone.
Marie Stehli: How is this going to be paid for?
Jason: Move it from the zoning.
Marie stated that the number is $75.00 per month.
Jason thought it would be less than that.
Vic: Would the number still ring into the school?
Jason thought this was flexible.
John Festa: I don't see any reason for anyone else to have a phone.
Jim Aldrich: I am fine with the way it is working.
Vic: The 9663 number will not ring in there any more.
Jim: You are going to do away with it?
Jason: In order to help Tierney, because she is on the phone a lot, we either get her her own number or use the zoning number. People have been using the same number for both for a long time. We would have to get another number for the cemetery line. There is nothing convenient about this.
[Blogger: I wonder if it really is all that complicated, or whether it is being made complicated.]
Jason: [I believe] What about blocking her number on calling out?
Vic: It is ringing in there right now. If we drop that there will probably be an increase [in cost]. We are getting that plan because we have used it for so long. If we change it, the cost will go up. Maybe we can see if there is a way of blocking her number. That way calls can still come in on the answering machine.
Jason: I think that is worth looking into.
Vic: That would be a lot less money to put out.
Marie: But from a tax standpoint she will be added in there.
John Festa quibbled about that.
Marie: John, I am a CPA. If she carries it, it is taxed to her.
Vic: For the cemetery we need two days notice. We don't have to get back to things in 10 minutes. These are part time jobs, and no one has to be sitting there to get calls.
Marie: I want you to know the consequences.
John Festa: Then we will deal with the consequences. [Blogger: I believe the translation of this may be, "Then we will pay more money."]
Jason asked John Festa to look into it.
[Blogger: OK, why all this fuss over phones? John Festa's objective is to prevent every possible act and feature that would establish the building as an operating government center, and he is willing to spend the taxpayers' money to do it. Putting phones and offices and filing cabinets into the building makes a statement which John Festa wants to avoid: that this is our building and that we are using it. If we are more or less just camping out in it, then it has never been "claimed" and can easily be discarded.]
Public Comment came next, some of which has been presented in earlier posts for this meeting.
Carol Srajer: Nothing.
Brian Summerlin, Old Taylor Woods: I am glad to hear you are going to work on the roads. Did you include Bevington Court and Huntington Way?
Jason: They all have the same problems, but we only have 700 feet that we can do. We have to spend and exorbitant amount and we can not even have gotten ahead of that years ago. We want to take care of the entrance.
Brian: Are you going to rebase the road or just repave it? You are not getting into the dirt and hauling anything out?
Jason: Probably not.
Vic: We have had that area around the cul de sac turn up a couple of times. Every one of those cross culverts there has no gravel. All of it is set on clay. At the time it was done, it was proof-rolled. Every cross culvert dips.
Brian: The development is 15 years old and has never had any comprehensive repaving. It is well overdue.
Vic: That is what we will be looking at as well. We have a list of what we can put on. It does not need so much work--we might be able to tie it into an Issue 2 project.
Brian: Do you have a time when you might begin working on it?
Jason: Plants are not open yet.
Brian: Maybe June or July? Jason: It is in the __?__.
Brian also asked about the Township cleanup day, and Vic answered that it is May 4, with a shredding day on May 18.
Dottie Summerlin was representing the Mantua Historical Society. We just want to remind everyone that the green is part of the National Register of Historic Places. We need to monitor it to be sure that we do not destroy the integrity of the green. The historical society would love to be part of the monitoring.
Vic: I wish Frank Horack were here.
Dottie: According to what they told us, it should not overwhelm the area.
Vic: asked about when the trees were first planted. Apparently it was 1901-1906. Have you ever seen that? It is upstairs. [Blogger: This may have been a reference to a photograph of the green then.]
Note: It will take one more post to complete this meeting. This is long enough for one sitting. Most of the rest of the discussion was about roads.
Sunday, April 28, 2013
4-18-13: Trustee Reports in Regular Meeting
Trustee Reports began at 8:02 (plus or minus).
Jason: At the last meeting we talked about getting an ad together for The Community Journal for the cleanup day. I forwarded the information to The Record Courier just as an announcement.
He then passed out copies of a report on our roads.
Jason: I have went [sic] through and modified the spreadsheet to show either what is paved or had major work last year. The green items are not worries. The items in yellow were on the list for this year or need attention this year. The items in red are the ones that we need to take care of.
Because we did not get our grant this year, we have money for chip and seal. I called the county because I want to have t hem look at what we propose to chip and seal. The county is no longer going to do chip and seal for political subdivisions. I was not aware of this. Apparently doing that was taking too much time and too many resources away from county roads.
Jason then went through the list. Among the items [I am not sure I noted all of them] were Mantua Center Road from Rt. 82 to the bridge [Blogger: I am not sure which direction or which bridge. South on Center to Mennonite?]; Wayne from SR. 44 to Sheldon.
Last year we paid the county $18,100+ per mile. I figured a little more--$18,500. The total miles would come to $128,000. We will have to put this out for bids.
Chip and seal last year was for 1-1/2 miles and 3.18 miles of paving for Loris and Pioneer Trail.
Jason asked Marie Stehli what could be freed up. He thought it is about $100,000.
Marie: $90,000 in Road and Bridge and $93,800 in another fund. [Blogger: Getting numbers right, which I worked to do here, is hard. As a result, I think the name of the other fund got lost.]
Jason: I also went to to Remington Point [in Old Taylor Woods] with Todd Lamb. It looks like $25,000 spent there would help. Most of it looks pretty good, although there is a blow-out hole. We spent about $10,000-$12,000 lost year on this. That road is in such badc condition--it has about every problem it can have. There is nothing that can be done to it but pave it. We promised the home owners' association that we would keep working on it.
Also, what I wanted to mention too was that I had a good conversation with John Vechery about chip and seal. He asked about doing chip and seal at the cemetery. Jason thought it would be worth looking at some of the roads there for chip and seal.
Continuing: I also think we should do some at the garage. It gets nasty there when the trucks are washed.
Total: 6.9 miles of chip and seal-- $128,000
Crack sealing @ $2700/mile--$10,800
Remington Point -- $25,000
Cemetery chip and seal,
garage, and green --$20,000
Total: $183,000
Plus a contingency of 9% brings the total to about $200,000.
The county will give us chip and seal recommendations.
Vic: I have started a list for the Round 28 and can look at that. Vic asked if East Mennonite was on the list. Some of the ones on your (Jason's) list are the same as the ones I have on mine.
Jason asked Vic about equipment bids. [Blogger: This refers to the township's practice of asking for bids from contractors who have equipment that the township does not have because the equipment is not used very often.]
Vic: The equipment has not changed from last year. We just need to change the dates. If all is OK, an ad can be run requesting bids.
Jason: That is all I had for new business. (8:20)
Vic: I move that we run this ad for 2013 on April 23, 24, 25. Jason asked Marie to do that and seconded the motiion. Unanimous.
John Festa had nothing for new business.
Vic: Salt bid. Vic talked about last year and estimated that the township had used about 820 tons of salt. The contract was for 675 tons. We had a surplus from the previous year.
Vic: I recommend that we get 725 tons. He showed Jason and John Festa the figures and salt/cinder amounts. He had everything filled out and asked for Jason's signature.
Continuing: There looked to be about 225 tons still in the shed.
Vic: Made a motion to participate in the ODT 0-18-14 salt-sodium cooperative to purchase the 725 tons. Jason seconded. Unanimous.
Vic will send the original. He said, "I want to make sure they do not need a copy of the resolution."
Also: For spring cleanup, the contractor for this year has said that we can set one dumpster off to the side for construction materials. Anything over 5 tons will cost an extra $35.00/ton.
Vic said he had contacted Bill Steiner (Portage Recycling) and he knows we will need three dumpsters.
Vic: I have received a lot of calls about the veterans' memorial. To John Festa: do you know if we will be informed about any of the work out there?
John Festa: Yes. I don't expect that the work will begin right away.
[BLOGGER: If anyone has noticed this issue or is following it, here are the posts:
the post for this 4/18 meeting titled "Veterans' Memorial and the Green"
3/24 post on the March 21 meeting
4/7 post on the April 4 meeting ]
At this point in the meeting, John Festa made his remarks about the 2003 RP propsal of a study committee and a levy to finance the school purchase. That is in the 4/18 meeting, post titled "The Green and the school bldg."
Township Hall updates:
Vic: I don't know whether anyone has contacted Marco--he seemed to be very on point. He has 28 years of engineering and inspection work. He has done over 14,000 inspections and can identify where the moisture issues are occurring. I told him the paint is peeling. This is due I think to the moisture issues and the underlying paint.
No matter if we decide to paint or side it, he thought it would be wise to get an expert opinion where the moisture is coming from.
Vic commented more on what would be done. He had told me [that the inspection would cost] $395 with a total of $550 for everything. ["Everything" includes the report on the inspection.]
John Festa: When can he come out?
Vic: I think it would be money well spent. I talked with him and told him we painted the building 10 years ago. He said that 8-9 years is the life of the paint. What you have to watch is that every time you paint latex, you are sealing stuff because the layers get thicker. I told hjim about the windows and that maybe the buiilding was tighter now.
Jason: I make a motion to hire Ambassador Construction Consultants [Marco is the name of the owner] to come and do a moisture evaluation of the Town Hall for an amount not to exceed $600.
John Festa seconded; unanimous.
[Blogger: Here is some perspective on this, and if you want to comb back through previous blogs, you can see the discussions in more detail. If you want to do that, look first for meetings when Cal Brant spoke in Public Comment.
Months ago--during the autumn or even earlier--Cal Brant urged the trustees to get an engineer to analyze the hall. His advice was met with, at the mildest, resistance, if not outright hostility. If I remember correctly, Jason said that he was not willing to spend the $550 for the inspection and report. Vic, in his low-key, tenacious way, has repeated the idea over time. Now, finally, after months of avoidance and verbal hand-wringing, maybe we should actually do an inspection.
After that, how is the work to be done?
The Township Hall is on The National Register of Historic Places. The National Park Service, which is the authority over the National Register, has extensive published guidelines for preserving historic buildings and sites. Each state's historical society has those guidelines, called Preservation Briefs, which individuals and organizations--and townships, fancy that --can purchase or perhaps get a few just for the asking through the Ohio Historical Society online store.
The purpose of those briefs is to help those who want to preserve our heritage, not just make a quick, flashy cosmetic fix with no care for the consequences.
Siding, mentioned a couple of times for the Town Hall, is specifically NOT recommended for historic buildings for two reasons:
First, the proportions and design of modern materials like vinyl siding destroy the original character of a historic building. Photographs in one of the briefs show that very clearly.
Second, simply putting modern materials onto or into a building creates conditions that will damage it.
What that may mean is this, in my opinion based on reading those briefs and considering what seems to be occurring in the Township Hall: If indeed moisture is a problem, partly because there is still a dirt floor in part of the basement and partly because the windows installed with part of the NOPEC grant have sealed the building, then putting a plastic layer on the outside is going to trap that moisture. The wood will rot as a result.
Most of us have experienced something similar if we put on a rain slicker. Anyplace where the slicker is on bare skin, we start to sweat immediately--and there is nowhere for it to go because the slicker doesn't breathe.
More could be said about how the township's money is being spent, in defiance of the advice of one of the best fiscal officers in the county, if not in all of Northeast Ohio. However, it should be possible for an intelligent, thoughtful reader to see that without more comment from your faithful and frustrated blogger.]
Jason: At the last meeting we talked about getting an ad together for The Community Journal for the cleanup day. I forwarded the information to The Record Courier just as an announcement.
He then passed out copies of a report on our roads.
Jason: I have went [sic] through and modified the spreadsheet to show either what is paved or had major work last year. The green items are not worries. The items in yellow were on the list for this year or need attention this year. The items in red are the ones that we need to take care of.
Because we did not get our grant this year, we have money for chip and seal. I called the county because I want to have t hem look at what we propose to chip and seal. The county is no longer going to do chip and seal for political subdivisions. I was not aware of this. Apparently doing that was taking too much time and too many resources away from county roads.
Jason then went through the list. Among the items [I am not sure I noted all of them] were Mantua Center Road from Rt. 82 to the bridge [Blogger: I am not sure which direction or which bridge. South on Center to Mennonite?]; Wayne from SR. 44 to Sheldon.
Last year we paid the county $18,100+ per mile. I figured a little more--$18,500. The total miles would come to $128,000. We will have to put this out for bids.
Chip and seal last year was for 1-1/2 miles and 3.18 miles of paving for Loris and Pioneer Trail.
Jason asked Marie Stehli what could be freed up. He thought it is about $100,000.
Marie: $90,000 in Road and Bridge and $93,800 in another fund. [Blogger: Getting numbers right, which I worked to do here, is hard. As a result, I think the name of the other fund got lost.]
Jason: I also went to to Remington Point [in Old Taylor Woods] with Todd Lamb. It looks like $25,000 spent there would help. Most of it looks pretty good, although there is a blow-out hole. We spent about $10,000-$12,000 lost year on this. That road is in such badc condition--it has about every problem it can have. There is nothing that can be done to it but pave it. We promised the home owners' association that we would keep working on it.
Also, what I wanted to mention too was that I had a good conversation with John Vechery about chip and seal. He asked about doing chip and seal at the cemetery. Jason thought it would be worth looking at some of the roads there for chip and seal.
Continuing: I also think we should do some at the garage. It gets nasty there when the trucks are washed.
Total: 6.9 miles of chip and seal-- $128,000
Crack sealing @ $2700/mile--$10,800
Remington Point -- $25,000
Cemetery chip and seal,
garage, and green --$20,000
Total: $183,000
Plus a contingency of 9% brings the total to about $200,000.
The county will give us chip and seal recommendations.
Vic: I have started a list for the Round 28 and can look at that. Vic asked if East Mennonite was on the list. Some of the ones on your (Jason's) list are the same as the ones I have on mine.
Jason asked Vic about equipment bids. [Blogger: This refers to the township's practice of asking for bids from contractors who have equipment that the township does not have because the equipment is not used very often.]
Vic: The equipment has not changed from last year. We just need to change the dates. If all is OK, an ad can be run requesting bids.
Jason: That is all I had for new business. (8:20)
Vic: I move that we run this ad for 2013 on April 23, 24, 25. Jason asked Marie to do that and seconded the motiion. Unanimous.
John Festa had nothing for new business.
Vic: Salt bid. Vic talked about last year and estimated that the township had used about 820 tons of salt. The contract was for 675 tons. We had a surplus from the previous year.
Vic: I recommend that we get 725 tons. He showed Jason and John Festa the figures and salt/cinder amounts. He had everything filled out and asked for Jason's signature.
Continuing: There looked to be about 225 tons still in the shed.
Vic: Made a motion to participate in the ODT 0-18-14 salt-sodium cooperative to purchase the 725 tons. Jason seconded. Unanimous.
Vic will send the original. He said, "I want to make sure they do not need a copy of the resolution."
Also: For spring cleanup, the contractor for this year has said that we can set one dumpster off to the side for construction materials. Anything over 5 tons will cost an extra $35.00/ton.
Vic said he had contacted Bill Steiner (Portage Recycling) and he knows we will need three dumpsters.
Vic: I have received a lot of calls about the veterans' memorial. To John Festa: do you know if we will be informed about any of the work out there?
John Festa: Yes. I don't expect that the work will begin right away.
[BLOGGER: If anyone has noticed this issue or is following it, here are the posts:
the post for this 4/18 meeting titled "Veterans' Memorial and the Green"
3/24 post on the March 21 meeting
4/7 post on the April 4 meeting ]
At this point in the meeting, John Festa made his remarks about the 2003 RP propsal of a study committee and a levy to finance the school purchase. That is in the 4/18 meeting, post titled "The Green and the school bldg."
Township Hall updates:
Vic: I don't know whether anyone has contacted Marco--he seemed to be very on point. He has 28 years of engineering and inspection work. He has done over 14,000 inspections and can identify where the moisture issues are occurring. I told him the paint is peeling. This is due I think to the moisture issues and the underlying paint.
No matter if we decide to paint or side it, he thought it would be wise to get an expert opinion where the moisture is coming from.
Vic commented more on what would be done. He had told me [that the inspection would cost] $395 with a total of $550 for everything. ["Everything" includes the report on the inspection.]
John Festa: When can he come out?
Vic: I think it would be money well spent. I talked with him and told him we painted the building 10 years ago. He said that 8-9 years is the life of the paint. What you have to watch is that every time you paint latex, you are sealing stuff because the layers get thicker. I told hjim about the windows and that maybe the buiilding was tighter now.
Jason: I make a motion to hire Ambassador Construction Consultants [Marco is the name of the owner] to come and do a moisture evaluation of the Town Hall for an amount not to exceed $600.
John Festa seconded; unanimous.
[Blogger: Here is some perspective on this, and if you want to comb back through previous blogs, you can see the discussions in more detail. If you want to do that, look first for meetings when Cal Brant spoke in Public Comment.
Months ago--during the autumn or even earlier--Cal Brant urged the trustees to get an engineer to analyze the hall. His advice was met with, at the mildest, resistance, if not outright hostility. If I remember correctly, Jason said that he was not willing to spend the $550 for the inspection and report. Vic, in his low-key, tenacious way, has repeated the idea over time. Now, finally, after months of avoidance and verbal hand-wringing, maybe we should actually do an inspection.
After that, how is the work to be done?
The Township Hall is on The National Register of Historic Places. The National Park Service, which is the authority over the National Register, has extensive published guidelines for preserving historic buildings and sites. Each state's historical society has those guidelines, called Preservation Briefs, which individuals and organizations--and townships, fancy that --can purchase or perhaps get a few just for the asking through the Ohio Historical Society online store.
The purpose of those briefs is to help those who want to preserve our heritage, not just make a quick, flashy cosmetic fix with no care for the consequences.
Siding, mentioned a couple of times for the Town Hall, is specifically NOT recommended for historic buildings for two reasons:
First, the proportions and design of modern materials like vinyl siding destroy the original character of a historic building. Photographs in one of the briefs show that very clearly.
Second, simply putting modern materials onto or into a building creates conditions that will damage it.
What that may mean is this, in my opinion based on reading those briefs and considering what seems to be occurring in the Township Hall: If indeed moisture is a problem, partly because there is still a dirt floor in part of the basement and partly because the windows installed with part of the NOPEC grant have sealed the building, then putting a plastic layer on the outside is going to trap that moisture. The wood will rot as a result.
Most of us have experienced something similar if we put on a rain slicker. Anyplace where the slicker is on bare skin, we start to sweat immediately--and there is nowhere for it to go because the slicker doesn't breathe.
More could be said about how the township's money is being spent, in defiance of the advice of one of the best fiscal officers in the county, if not in all of Northeast Ohio. However, it should be possible for an intelligent, thoughtful reader to see that without more comment from your faithful and frustrated blogger.]
Saturday, April 27, 2013
4-18-13: Mantua Township Trustees
Foreword: This post was done in two sittings. Club and Committee reports were added as of 8 a.m. Sunday, April 28, for anyone who read it before then.
The minutes were reviewed, corrected, and approved. I do not know whether the Internet provider for the computer(s) in the Administrative Building is cooperating with Marie's attempts to post the minutes. Check.
No report from the zoning inspector.
Lynn Harvey, Zoning Commission: The zoning book is done and will have to be taken out to copy because our copier will not run and collate two-sided copies. I went to Staples to make one book for Tierney Bryant [Zoning Inspector] because I had promised it to her.
Discussion between Jason and Lynn followed about getting the right number of copies. The Law Library and the County Prosecutor have to get copies in addition to what is needed in the township.
John Festa asked about CD's; the one Lynn has from Regional Planning is the master. Jason asked Lynn to check about the cost of CDs.
Marie Stehli: It was $24.88 from Regional Planning for a couple of zoning books and a CD.
Jim Aldrich [sexton] requested a porta potty for the cemetery for the summer. Then: I wonder if the trustees would consider moving the sign for West Lawn to the new section to the west so that people know they are approaching the cemetery before they are past it. Jim described how to do that.
Jason asked if it could be done before Memorial Day, and Jim thought that would be no problem.
Jason, continuing: wasn't sure whether the condition of the sign would permit it to be sandblasted.
Jim thought it would be OK to do that.
Jim, continuing: I would like to say that in the 2-1/2 months I have been sexton, I have come to enjoy working with everyone.
Brian Tayerle, Road Department: Brian agreed that it was a pleasure working with Jim and then reported that foundations have been started and the rest should be done tomorrow [Friday].
Roads: Potholes are cropping up and hot mix would be better but the plants are not open. A tree blew over on Winchell Road. There is more that will come down onto the road at some point. It seems to be at the edge of the right of way but it will fall on the road.
Two quotes have come in for tree work. Yarnell quoted $900 for cutting and $225 for grinding the stump. Enterprise quoted $500 and $125, respectively.
Jason asked for comments; none being made, Vic made the motion to have Enterprise remove the tree and grind the stump for $625. John Festa seconded. Unanimous.
Brian asked about having the tall grass mowed in the cemetery. There was a little discussion about how to do that, and the observation that the trustees usually had it done before Memorial Day.
John Festa, to Brian: How are we doing with the new excavator?
Brian: I talked to one Case salesman about coming to a meeting, but Thursday is not good for him.
Jason suggested lining up a project that we are going to do anyway for a demonstration.
John Festa: Let them know we are interested and give them a couple of dates.
Club and Committee Reports
Garden Club: Members met last night (April 17) and worked in the beds. We pulled out all of the perennials from the front beds in anticipation of the work on the building [the Township Hall]. We would like to be notified about that so we can remove the bulbs. Our plant sale is coming up June 1 outside on the green.
We hope for a good turnout--that is our fund raiser for what we put into the gardens here. Sue Skrovan reported.
Jason talked about reducing the beds around the flagpole and suggested that the Garden Club could perhaps mark them.
LCA, Barbara Herbold: Our president has not set our first meeting, but I am so excited about the arches being renovated. [Those are the metal arches outside the West Lawn Cemetery on Rt. 82.]
Amy Janca: Barb Herbold and I met with Jim Aldrich and marked trees and shrubs that need to be pruned.
Chamber of Commerce, John Festa: The schools have hired a new superintendent. The Village has been taken off Fiscal Watch.
Carole Pollard was the speaker and Shalersville has a new road project.
The minutes were reviewed, corrected, and approved. I do not know whether the Internet provider for the computer(s) in the Administrative Building is cooperating with Marie's attempts to post the minutes. Check.
No report from the zoning inspector.
Lynn Harvey, Zoning Commission: The zoning book is done and will have to be taken out to copy because our copier will not run and collate two-sided copies. I went to Staples to make one book for Tierney Bryant [Zoning Inspector] because I had promised it to her.
Discussion between Jason and Lynn followed about getting the right number of copies. The Law Library and the County Prosecutor have to get copies in addition to what is needed in the township.
John Festa asked about CD's; the one Lynn has from Regional Planning is the master. Jason asked Lynn to check about the cost of CDs.
Marie Stehli: It was $24.88 from Regional Planning for a couple of zoning books and a CD.
Jim Aldrich [sexton] requested a porta potty for the cemetery for the summer. Then: I wonder if the trustees would consider moving the sign for West Lawn to the new section to the west so that people know they are approaching the cemetery before they are past it. Jim described how to do that.
Jason asked if it could be done before Memorial Day, and Jim thought that would be no problem.
Jason, continuing: wasn't sure whether the condition of the sign would permit it to be sandblasted.
Jim thought it would be OK to do that.
Jim, continuing: I would like to say that in the 2-1/2 months I have been sexton, I have come to enjoy working with everyone.
Brian Tayerle, Road Department: Brian agreed that it was a pleasure working with Jim and then reported that foundations have been started and the rest should be done tomorrow [Friday].
Roads: Potholes are cropping up and hot mix would be better but the plants are not open. A tree blew over on Winchell Road. There is more that will come down onto the road at some point. It seems to be at the edge of the right of way but it will fall on the road.
Two quotes have come in for tree work. Yarnell quoted $900 for cutting and $225 for grinding the stump. Enterprise quoted $500 and $125, respectively.
Jason asked for comments; none being made, Vic made the motion to have Enterprise remove the tree and grind the stump for $625. John Festa seconded. Unanimous.
Brian asked about having the tall grass mowed in the cemetery. There was a little discussion about how to do that, and the observation that the trustees usually had it done before Memorial Day.
John Festa, to Brian: How are we doing with the new excavator?
Brian: I talked to one Case salesman about coming to a meeting, but Thursday is not good for him.
Jason suggested lining up a project that we are going to do anyway for a demonstration.
John Festa: Let them know we are interested and give them a couple of dates.
Club and Committee Reports
Garden Club: Members met last night (April 17) and worked in the beds. We pulled out all of the perennials from the front beds in anticipation of the work on the building [the Township Hall]. We would like to be notified about that so we can remove the bulbs. Our plant sale is coming up June 1 outside on the green.
We hope for a good turnout--that is our fund raiser for what we put into the gardens here. Sue Skrovan reported.
Jason talked about reducing the beds around the flagpole and suggested that the Garden Club could perhaps mark them.
LCA, Barbara Herbold: Our president has not set our first meeting, but I am so excited about the arches being renovated. [Those are the metal arches outside the West Lawn Cemetery on Rt. 82.]
Amy Janca: Barb Herbold and I met with Jim Aldrich and marked trees and shrubs that need to be pruned.
Chamber of Commerce, John Festa: The schools have hired a new superintendent. The Village has been taken off Fiscal Watch.
Carole Pollard was the speaker and Shalersville has a new road project.
Friday, April 26, 2013
Trustees 4-18-13: Using the Mantua Center school building
Foreword: This post pulls together several speakers' comments as a unit because all of them had to do with the Mantua Center school building. Doing it this way made more sense to me than simply presenting public comment as it occurred.
Mark Hall, Loris Drive: I need to wear two hats [tonight, first] as president of The Mantua Restoration Society. As you know, Diamond Environmental found two areas with asbestos. The Mantua Restoration Society would like to see the pipe addressed. The Mantua Restoration Society will pay HEPA [Environmental Services] $990 to remove that.
We are asking the trustees to accept our offer and remove the insulation. Please keep in mind that this will be no cost to the Township. If possible, we would like to have a response this evening. I have a check for that amount that Marie Stehli can hold and a letter from the bank stating that the funds are available.
Jason thanked Mark for the donation to the township and said he would like to accept it.
Motion, Jason: I make a motion to accept the donation from The Mantua Restoration Society for $990 to pay for the removal of the asbestos from the pipe.
Mark: To be clear--we will be paying HEPA.
John Festa: Second. Unanimous.
Blogger Note: On Thursday, April 25, the asbestos insulation around the pipe in the basement was removed. So, to anyone who made donations of any kind to The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., your money (part of it, anyway) has been spent to make the building cleaner and safer for all who use it. The work does not show, but it matters.
Mark thanked the trustees on behalf of the restoration society and said that the members look forward to working on future things.
Mark, continuing: Mark invited the trustees and Fiscal Officer to the restoration society's first annual meeting. Doors open at 6:30, program begins at 7p.m. One of the highlights for our first program here is that we will have a presentation by Christine Borkan, who has completed the nomination of the 1914 school bulding to the National Register of Historic Places. After her presentation there will be a time for questions and answers.
Mark to John Festa: You brought up getting things rolling on the school; The Mantua Restoration Society would be very interested in that and working with you on that.
Mark then shifted to his second hat, as a resident. That will be handled as part of another post.
Roger Hurd, Mantua Center Road: I want to publicly thank Ellie Monroe for sponsoring the community get togethers at the annex. It was very popular and there were many positive comments from those who attended and from those who could not attend but who said they would like to. It was well attended and popular. [Blogger's note: Roger's remarks came several speakers before Ellie's, but they fit with her subsequent remarks and are therefore placed here.]
Ellie Monroe, Wayne Road: As Roger Hurd mentioned, I have completed the 6 open Tuesdays. There were 188 visits, with 88 unduplicated individuals. It was well received. A group of us met a couple of weeks ago to see how to keep it going forward. We decided to keep it going on the first and third Wednesday of the month. Other individuals have stepped forward to help lead it. I will not be personally available for a couple of months. I have made the initial arrangements for renting the building for the four days.
I have a request [to make] from the trustees. Inasmuch as it is a taxpayer owned building and the residents have paid for it twice over, it seems that it should be available to the community free of charge.
Jason: So you are asking . . . .?
Ellie: For the first and third Wednesdays from 10 to 4. In general, my question is that if the entire community is being invited for some event, since it is community owned and for community use, it should be available at no charge. The Shalersville and Nelson buildings are similarly trustee owned, and they do this at no charge to their community.
Jason asked for Ellie to write up something for the trustees to review, if what you are doing does not benefit you but the community as a whole, if you are getting no gain I don't see a problem.
Ellie: I will not be around for the next couple of trustees' meetings. Carol Srajer and Susan Buckles have stepped forward to be in charge. I am leaving my $170 key deposit. I think I can get that letter written up before I leave town.
Continuing: Do I pay for these next four, or do you want to make a motion? I think we need to clarify it at least for these next four meetings.
Jason: Lock in the dates (Ellie--I have done that) and hold payment. We will discuss the letter and most likely go forward.
Blogger: The rest of the posts for the April 18 meeting will be more like their usual format. These first three were intended to make it easy to see issues and activities that promise to come more and more front and center in the next few months.
Mark Hall, Loris Drive: I need to wear two hats [tonight, first] as president of The Mantua Restoration Society. As you know, Diamond Environmental found two areas with asbestos. The Mantua Restoration Society would like to see the pipe addressed. The Mantua Restoration Society will pay HEPA [Environmental Services] $990 to remove that.
We are asking the trustees to accept our offer and remove the insulation. Please keep in mind that this will be no cost to the Township. If possible, we would like to have a response this evening. I have a check for that amount that Marie Stehli can hold and a letter from the bank stating that the funds are available.
Jason thanked Mark for the donation to the township and said he would like to accept it.
Motion, Jason: I make a motion to accept the donation from The Mantua Restoration Society for $990 to pay for the removal of the asbestos from the pipe.
Mark: To be clear--we will be paying HEPA.
John Festa: Second. Unanimous.
Blogger Note: On Thursday, April 25, the asbestos insulation around the pipe in the basement was removed. So, to anyone who made donations of any kind to The Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., your money (part of it, anyway) has been spent to make the building cleaner and safer for all who use it. The work does not show, but it matters.
Mark thanked the trustees on behalf of the restoration society and said that the members look forward to working on future things.
Mark, continuing: Mark invited the trustees and Fiscal Officer to the restoration society's first annual meeting. Doors open at 6:30, program begins at 7p.m. One of the highlights for our first program here is that we will have a presentation by Christine Borkan, who has completed the nomination of the 1914 school bulding to the National Register of Historic Places. After her presentation there will be a time for questions and answers.
Mark to John Festa: You brought up getting things rolling on the school; The Mantua Restoration Society would be very interested in that and working with you on that.
Mark then shifted to his second hat, as a resident. That will be handled as part of another post.
Roger Hurd, Mantua Center Road: I want to publicly thank Ellie Monroe for sponsoring the community get togethers at the annex. It was very popular and there were many positive comments from those who attended and from those who could not attend but who said they would like to. It was well attended and popular. [Blogger's note: Roger's remarks came several speakers before Ellie's, but they fit with her subsequent remarks and are therefore placed here.]
Ellie Monroe, Wayne Road: As Roger Hurd mentioned, I have completed the 6 open Tuesdays. There were 188 visits, with 88 unduplicated individuals. It was well received. A group of us met a couple of weeks ago to see how to keep it going forward. We decided to keep it going on the first and third Wednesday of the month. Other individuals have stepped forward to help lead it. I will not be personally available for a couple of months. I have made the initial arrangements for renting the building for the four days.
I have a request [to make] from the trustees. Inasmuch as it is a taxpayer owned building and the residents have paid for it twice over, it seems that it should be available to the community free of charge.
Jason: So you are asking . . . .?
Ellie: For the first and third Wednesdays from 10 to 4. In general, my question is that if the entire community is being invited for some event, since it is community owned and for community use, it should be available at no charge. The Shalersville and Nelson buildings are similarly trustee owned, and they do this at no charge to their community.
Jason asked for Ellie to write up something for the trustees to review, if what you are doing does not benefit you but the community as a whole, if you are getting no gain I don't see a problem.
Ellie: I will not be around for the next couple of trustees' meetings. Carol Srajer and Susan Buckles have stepped forward to be in charge. I am leaving my $170 key deposit. I think I can get that letter written up before I leave town.
Continuing: Do I pay for these next four, or do you want to make a motion? I think we need to clarify it at least for these next four meetings.
Jason: Lock in the dates (Ellie--I have done that) and hold payment. We will discuss the letter and most likely go forward.
Blogger: The rest of the posts for the April 18 meeting will be more like their usual format. These first three were intended to make it easy to see issues and activities that promise to come more and more front and center in the next few months.
Wednesday, April 24, 2013
Veterans' Memorial and The Green, 4-18-13
Foreword: The discussion about the green and the veterans' memorial at this meeting was all during public comment and then afterward. I think at some point everything needs to get pulled together for all of the various pieces of comment and information, rather than having it spread out over a series of meetings and even more posts.
For the record, when Sue Skrovan and I went through the whole county in early 2011 to get pictures of other schools for the Open House, we also took photos of the veterans' and war memorials. I would have to go back and look at everything, but it seems as if Mantua Township is maybe the only township without such a recognition.
We noticed two other things: First, although the incised writing on limestone monuments was blurred by time, the monuments were intact. The masonry ones were all showing their age, some pretty badly. Second, the monuments that seemed the most magnanimous were the ones that said something to the effect of "In Memory of All Who Served."
When you think about the history of war, many lives were lost by those who were actively involved in the war but who were in service in segments not identified as branches of the armed forces. The women test pilots are an example.
Another may elicit some snickers, but these lost their lives also: thousands and tens of thousands of horses and mules, and the dogs of war, some of which were actually used as suicide bombers They carried explosives in backpacks that they cheerfully, as dogs always obey their humans, carried into enemy lines.
So "In Memory of All Who Served" is the most inclusive and spiritually generous form of recognition, and a number of monuments in the county carry that sentiment.
On to what transpired in the April 18 trustees meeting on this topic. This post has not been quite as carefully proofread for punctuation and typos as some. Apologies.
Matt Parsons, to Vic: You said you had received calls about the war memorial. Are you able to share those?
Vic: I got about 9 calls. I would say 7, because 2 were pretty much the same information. It was about the tree being removed and is the memorial going to be ADA compliant--blacktopped or a hard surface. The other worry is whether the blacktop would affect the other trees.
Matt: I know about the tree, that one tree needs to come down.
Vic: Would there have to be a paved parking area?
[Someone said, sort of off stage, "There isn't one now."]
Vic: But we had to pave the area by the Civic Center. The calls were about ADA and the walk area.
To Matt, or maybe in general to the interested group: Is there any plan by this committee for long term upkeep?
Matt: A general fund? Vic: Yes.
Matt: Nothing formal yet.
[Blogger note: The grant criteria I have seen for projects like this one all require two things from the owners of the property: matching funds and a maintenance plan as part of the proposal. Who is really going to own this memorial, which will sit on township property but be funded to an unknown extent by private money?]
Vic: The other thing was about the cannon. If the cannon needs to be moved, there is not a lot of red tape and problem. It is not through the DOD. I would like actually--I have talked to 5 people at DOD, and that is not where it comes from. I have probably talked to 8 or 9 people. [Altogether? Not sure about the 5 and then the 8-9.] I would like to know the history on it--whether I need a serial number or what. Is it an army artillery piece, or what? It would be nice to know where it came from and how far back it goes. There is no problem with moving it because it will stay on Township property. It belongs to the government at all times and is on loan to us.
[Blogger: Vic has just touched on some Historic Preservation issues. All kinds of things can and probably should be documented, not just buildings. Artifacts. Archaeological sites. Art work. Little things, like the fountain in the Village with a boy and a girl under an umbrella. The flagpole in Ravenna. They are more than just old things. They are history, and treating those items in a cavalier fashion is a loss. And I never thought like this until we started to support and defend the school building, and then I got appointed to the Mantua Village Historic Landmarks Commission. The old things are ours. The new ones may well have come from China--which is SO sensitive to our history, of course.]
Dave Pollard: Just an observation: I noticed that there was not one tree marked for removal but two.
[Blogger: At the March 21 meeting, Frank Horack had said "one tree" and described its blemishes in great, specific detail. Subsequently, marks with spray paint were made.]
Dave, continuing: I have not seen a tree that looks dead. [The claim was that the marked tree was dead.] I have no problem with the memorial. You were told there was one tree and now there are two.
Matt Parsons: There were actually two trees referred to. [He addressed that remark directly to Dave.]
Basically, after other public comment that was about more general things, that part of the meeting was over.
What follows is blogger comment. This time, no brackets, since I have identified it.
Since the drawings were on a side table, people went over and looked at them. Here is where things get contradictory. In the March 21 meeting, Frank Horack identified one tree as needing removal. The drawings on the table at the April 18 meeting, as I understand it, show two trees. (If you are wondering, only one of them shows up clearly from the road, but the other does not. To see both trees as marked to be cut down, I parked at the Civic Center and looked--both are not really visible from SR 82.)
I have not looked at any of the drawings, but there was a different one at this meeting than at an earlier one. Some people say that both trees were always shown on the drawings as needing to be cut down, but others are going by what Frank said when he introduced the project: one tree.
Someone who went outside and checked the area while there was general discussion said that it looked as if once the project got started it would turn out that a third tree would have to be cut down. Vic said several times that he had not realized that two trees were on the block for cutting.
One of the remarks that was made about the project was that what had been shown so far was not the final design. That being the case, exactly what is it that Jason and John Festa are supporting so willingly? Does anyone, including the people in the Veteran's Memorial Association, know what is really being planned and what will be done?
Who is going to pay for the trenching and the lighting? If that line is going to come from the Civic Center, it certainly seems that the township, despite Frank's comments about "no cost to the township," is going to have to pay an extra light bill--and John Festa is already upset about the bills at the Administrative (formerly school) building. This one doesn't bother him? No one knows.
And what does the trenching do to the tree roots?
And then there are all of the self-contradictory bits and pieces about money and organization. They have the money. They have pledges. Now they can open a bank account. They are going to get a non-profit ID number. They are going to be under the 501 c 3 umbrella of the Ruritans. [Money is involved, which means the government is involved. How can an organization without credentials yet be covered by a legitimate organization?]
Mantua Township is long overdue for a tangible tribute to the people who have gone off to suffer and even die so that we at home can be comfortable. Those who served deserve recognition. The whole thing should be well thought out and well founded and properly supported. The quality and credibility--the legal standing--of the organization proposing such a memorial should match its intended dignity.
After all, a number of comments have been made that if the school is going to be done, it should be done right. The same people who have been saying that are the ones supporting the veterans' memorial. They would be setting a good example if they do it right--just as they have told the trustees to do. .
For the record, when Sue Skrovan and I went through the whole county in early 2011 to get pictures of other schools for the Open House, we also took photos of the veterans' and war memorials. I would have to go back and look at everything, but it seems as if Mantua Township is maybe the only township without such a recognition.
We noticed two other things: First, although the incised writing on limestone monuments was blurred by time, the monuments were intact. The masonry ones were all showing their age, some pretty badly. Second, the monuments that seemed the most magnanimous were the ones that said something to the effect of "In Memory of All Who Served."
When you think about the history of war, many lives were lost by those who were actively involved in the war but who were in service in segments not identified as branches of the armed forces. The women test pilots are an example.
Another may elicit some snickers, but these lost their lives also: thousands and tens of thousands of horses and mules, and the dogs of war, some of which were actually used as suicide bombers They carried explosives in backpacks that they cheerfully, as dogs always obey their humans, carried into enemy lines.
So "In Memory of All Who Served" is the most inclusive and spiritually generous form of recognition, and a number of monuments in the county carry that sentiment.
On to what transpired in the April 18 trustees meeting on this topic. This post has not been quite as carefully proofread for punctuation and typos as some. Apologies.
Matt Parsons, to Vic: You said you had received calls about the war memorial. Are you able to share those?
Vic: I got about 9 calls. I would say 7, because 2 were pretty much the same information. It was about the tree being removed and is the memorial going to be ADA compliant--blacktopped or a hard surface. The other worry is whether the blacktop would affect the other trees.
Matt: I know about the tree, that one tree needs to come down.
Vic: Would there have to be a paved parking area?
[Someone said, sort of off stage, "There isn't one now."]
Vic: But we had to pave the area by the Civic Center. The calls were about ADA and the walk area.
To Matt, or maybe in general to the interested group: Is there any plan by this committee for long term upkeep?
Matt: A general fund? Vic: Yes.
Matt: Nothing formal yet.
[Blogger note: The grant criteria I have seen for projects like this one all require two things from the owners of the property: matching funds and a maintenance plan as part of the proposal. Who is really going to own this memorial, which will sit on township property but be funded to an unknown extent by private money?]
Vic: The other thing was about the cannon. If the cannon needs to be moved, there is not a lot of red tape and problem. It is not through the DOD. I would like actually--I have talked to 5 people at DOD, and that is not where it comes from. I have probably talked to 8 or 9 people. [Altogether? Not sure about the 5 and then the 8-9.] I would like to know the history on it--whether I need a serial number or what. Is it an army artillery piece, or what? It would be nice to know where it came from and how far back it goes. There is no problem with moving it because it will stay on Township property. It belongs to the government at all times and is on loan to us.
[Blogger: Vic has just touched on some Historic Preservation issues. All kinds of things can and probably should be documented, not just buildings. Artifacts. Archaeological sites. Art work. Little things, like the fountain in the Village with a boy and a girl under an umbrella. The flagpole in Ravenna. They are more than just old things. They are history, and treating those items in a cavalier fashion is a loss. And I never thought like this until we started to support and defend the school building, and then I got appointed to the Mantua Village Historic Landmarks Commission. The old things are ours. The new ones may well have come from China--which is SO sensitive to our history, of course.]
Dave Pollard: Just an observation: I noticed that there was not one tree marked for removal but two.
[Blogger: At the March 21 meeting, Frank Horack had said "one tree" and described its blemishes in great, specific detail. Subsequently, marks with spray paint were made.]
Dave, continuing: I have not seen a tree that looks dead. [The claim was that the marked tree was dead.] I have no problem with the memorial. You were told there was one tree and now there are two.
Matt Parsons: There were actually two trees referred to. [He addressed that remark directly to Dave.]
Basically, after other public comment that was about more general things, that part of the meeting was over.
What follows is blogger comment. This time, no brackets, since I have identified it.
Since the drawings were on a side table, people went over and looked at them. Here is where things get contradictory. In the March 21 meeting, Frank Horack identified one tree as needing removal. The drawings on the table at the April 18 meeting, as I understand it, show two trees. (If you are wondering, only one of them shows up clearly from the road, but the other does not. To see both trees as marked to be cut down, I parked at the Civic Center and looked--both are not really visible from SR 82.)
I have not looked at any of the drawings, but there was a different one at this meeting than at an earlier one. Some people say that both trees were always shown on the drawings as needing to be cut down, but others are going by what Frank said when he introduced the project: one tree.
Someone who went outside and checked the area while there was general discussion said that it looked as if once the project got started it would turn out that a third tree would have to be cut down. Vic said several times that he had not realized that two trees were on the block for cutting.
One of the remarks that was made about the project was that what had been shown so far was not the final design. That being the case, exactly what is it that Jason and John Festa are supporting so willingly? Does anyone, including the people in the Veteran's Memorial Association, know what is really being planned and what will be done?
Who is going to pay for the trenching and the lighting? If that line is going to come from the Civic Center, it certainly seems that the township, despite Frank's comments about "no cost to the township," is going to have to pay an extra light bill--and John Festa is already upset about the bills at the Administrative (formerly school) building. This one doesn't bother him? No one knows.
And what does the trenching do to the tree roots?
And then there are all of the self-contradictory bits and pieces about money and organization. They have the money. They have pledges. Now they can open a bank account. They are going to get a non-profit ID number. They are going to be under the 501 c 3 umbrella of the Ruritans. [Money is involved, which means the government is involved. How can an organization without credentials yet be covered by a legitimate organization?]
Mantua Township is long overdue for a tangible tribute to the people who have gone off to suffer and even die so that we at home can be comfortable. Those who served deserve recognition. The whole thing should be well thought out and well founded and properly supported. The quality and credibility--the legal standing--of the organization proposing such a memorial should match its intended dignity.
After all, a number of comments have been made that if the school is going to be done, it should be done right. The same people who have been saying that are the ones supporting the veterans' memorial. They would be setting a good example if they do it right--just as they have told the trustees to do. .
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