[Blogger: Although readers interested in our insurance plan were urged to read the official minutes (to be posted after 3-7-14 on the township website) of the discussion with Brian Savage, I thought this was worth putting into the blog:
[Brian Savage: Mantua Township has below the average cost per plan and falls well within the range of other townships in Ohio.
[The reason I have chosen to put this into the blog is that in the past, our plan was criticized as a "Cadillac plan" in order to attack Vic and Marie. Now that Jason is on the plan, those remarks have dropped off almost completely. This is not to say that insurance costs can be ignored, but it's interesting observing whose ox may be getting gored. If it's someone's pet ox, silence.]
Various corrections were made to the previous meeting's minutes, including a request by John Festa that the paragraph he had read at the previous meeting be formally included in the official minutes. Check the official minutes on the township website, mantuatownshipohio..gov, for that. It's a reiteration of the disagreement between John Festa and zoning about attendance. More to come later in the meeting.
There were some updates about what has been added to the township website about filing fees for tearing down a building.
Chris Craycraft, Portage Parks Director, was the special guest and presented the case for voting in favor of the parks levy that will be on the ballot in the next election. Chris is the only full time employee of the parks district. One half-time employee does all of the maintenance work on the trails. The budget is $99,500 per year, about half of which comes from private donations. This is not a sustainable model.
The proposed levy is for 1/2 mil, which will cost $1.50 for $100,000 tax value. It will run for 10 years and will bring in $1.63 million per year. Kent's park system has a bigger budget than Portage County does. Half of the revenue would go for maintenance and the rest for capital development. Chris said that we have lost grant money because the budget was too small to come up with the required matching funds, and some very promising areas cannot be fitted up for service as parks or trails because the money is just not there.
Parks help economic development and tourism. We are still pretty rural in Portage County, but time will see us developing. Cuyahoga County is not completely paved over because a park system was established 100 years ago.
Fiscal Officer's Report
[Blogger: For details, check the official minutes after the 3/7 meeting.]
Marie said that we are very tight this year. A resolution had been passed at the last meeting to do the electrical work in the garage. Approval to transfer the funds is needed.
Vic: Is that coming from the $5,000 that we moved at the last meeting?
Marie: I am taking it from Repairs [?] because it is a normal repair.
Vic made the motion, seconded by John Festa and approved by all.
Marie: We also need to have specific approval for an invoice from the Automatic Door Company because it was in December.
Jason made the motion, seconded by John Festa, and approved by all.
Correspondence: There were among others two letters from the prosecutor regarding zoning violations and there were some other things related to zoning.
Roads, Brian Tayerle: The road crew is plowing snow. The roads are beginning to come apart, but the equipment is holding up and salt has been delivered.
Vic asked that Brian put the roads being patched at the top of the materials list.
Brian also mentioned a couple of seminars in Akron to attend, one on asphalt repair.
Jason commented that normally Brian attends a couple of seminars a year, and Vic asked if anything was being offered on equipment procurement.
John Festa: I went past the hillside on Pioneer Trail east of Rt. 44. Are you looking into that for something in the spring? Answer: Yes. It is beginning to slide and we have a couple of ideas.
John Festa also commended the road crew for their work in the past couple of snows, and Jason agreed.
Next on the agenda was the Board of Zoning Appeals, Bob Stehli, chairperson.
Bob: We had the BZA organizational meeting to elect officers and carry out business. I am the chairperson and Joan Martin is the assistant chair. All else remains the same.
We had agreed at the last All Boards meeting to note inconsistencies in the zoning book. Keith Barton, Randy Alger, and Teresa Nielsen have compiled lists that have not yet made it to the zoning commission. Terry Nielsen's are in the minutes.
We discussed problems we are having with the zoning book [which was adopted in December 2011 at a special meeting attended by Todd Peetz, Regional Planning.] We have had three hearings [since the book was adopted]. The problems on the first one have largely been resolved.
[Blogger: This discussion fills 9 pages of my notebook. I will identify the issues raised by the BZA and give some perspective on the development of the zoning book, which was exhaustive and exhausting. If I am correct, the concerns were raised at the All Boards meeting earlier in the year. I will check to see if my memory is correct that there was a general agreement that the Zoning Commission and the BZA would meet and work through the problem areas.]
Issues: Problems with the book seeming unwieldy to us; the zoning inspector has made mistakes; working through it all at a hearing was a roller coaster; there were concerns that if a lawyer were at such a hearing, it would go badly for the township; definitions in the book do not seem to match the ORC exactly.
The possibility was raised of going back to the older book [which is apparently NOT possible, not logically, anyway.]
Bob said the BZA would continue to work with the Zoning Commission, and he allowed that the book made more sense to them because they had spent so much time with it. He was also concerned about what the average citizen of the township would do with the book, since people are expected to consult it when they have something coming up, and the boards were having trouble.
Ultimately, the trustees will have the power and may have some ideas.
Vic: Have you gotten together with the Zoning Commission and went [sic] through it?
Bob: No. We knew we were going to have our organizational meeting and after that we would bet back with the Zoning Commission.
Vic: I wondered if you shouldn't set aside a couple of meetings to go through this with the Zoning Commission.
[Blogger: To me, that should have ended the discussion, with perhaps Bob Stehli and Lynn Harvey on the spot agreeing to dates when they would have joint meetings to work things out. But it didn't end there.]
Jason commented on the situation and said that the board needed to be able to use the book so that a decision would be upheld, and Bob added that that was in the back of one's mind all the time.
Then Jason asked if anyone else had comments, since other members of the BZA were there, and Bob said to go ahead.
Keith Barton launched into a lawyerly analysis and raised the issue of a legal challenge to a finding. That was John Festa's cue:
John Festa: Here is my concern. Bob, you stated t hat even the zoning inspector has made mistakes. If he is making mistakes and you can not get your hands on it, are all of these violations unenforceable? Some of this is moving towards a trial and what is going to happen? Will we go in with our tail between our legs knowing it will be kicked out? [Blogger: At this point, I am not sure that what John Festa just mentioned is anything that the BZA has heard. If it is not, then this question muddies the water.]
Bob: I can't say anything about the litigation we are facing, but this concerns me. Luckily for us, most of the people in the township are not like that. Most felt they got fair treatment and that we were struggling through the book. I am just afraid that we will run into someone along the line that everyone won't be like that.
[Blogger: After a lifetime of teaching, I can tell the world that it is absolutely not possible to anticipate and head off every potential problem that human beings can cause, and there are people in the world who will bring a suit even against the best advice of a lawyer. So being able to avoid every possible suit is something to wish for but probably not achieve.]
John Festa asked about reverting to the old book.
Bob: I am not sure that is possible. The old one seems more simple, but I know the reason to rewrite it was to improve it. Bob also wondered about having a professional clean it up, if such a person is available.
[Blogger: I recently heard a brief account of Todd Peetz's experience. He is a professional, with more depth and breadth of experience than his self-effacing manner suggests. He is well enough thought of in the field that he gets calls with job offers--not what would happen if he were not very well qualified.
And my guess is that outside help of the caliber that it might take is more than we can afford. Even if we were not tight for money.]
Keith Barton voiced some uncertainty as to what to do and some concern about the future under these circumstances and then opined as how maybe the best option is to adopt the old book and then have someone go through every ordinance to see how it would stand up to legal scrutiny. [Note: As a township, we have resolutions. Cities and villages have ordinances.]
At this point, Vic addressed Lynn Harvey:
Vic: Regional Planning was hired to go through this book and is has been through Chris Meduri.
Lynn: It has been looked by other lawyers.
Vic: This was at a cost of $26,000 the first time.
Lynn: The previous directors of Regional Planning went through it. Eventually we got the book back and told them some guidelines like implementing the land use plan. They fixed it and what we got back took a couple of years to fix up what we thought was a finished product. We thought we would check a few pages and we found a number of wrong things. It turned into a nightmare. Regional Planning would keep it for a couple of months. I don't know if they looked at it all. We took on doing the proofreading ourselves rather than having the township pay for it.
When the BZA came to us after the first hearing we looked and tracked their logic and went back to Regional Planning. We fixed that and had a public hearing. There was no BZA hearing after that for a while.
I think we are actually feeling the vacuum created by the loss of John Vechery. He loved the book and thought it was a piece of cake, but using it the first time it might not be a piece of cake. If you discover mistakes, they need to come to the Zoning Commission.
Vic mentioned the Regional Planning office: Lynn Erickson, then Todd Peetz. Claudia James has been on that book from the first.
Lynn: Claudia James spent hours on this. A lot of professionals have weighed in and no one has suggested that it be ripped apart.
Vic: What about the suggestion that (we will have to look at the money) we have some meetings with the Zoning Commission and the BZA to look at it.
Lynn: The BZA can be the host and our board would show up when they advertise it. It would ba a public meeting. Go through and see what we can fix easily. I think This is standard zoning language. Between 1960 and 2000 there is a lot more than when zoning was first instituted. You don't read the book like a novel. Some things do not apply unless you are doing certain things. John Dickey has had some issues. It says right here you must give notice in wiritng and if you don't do that you are not following the book. That is extremely clear.
Vic: This needs to be addressed and not be an overbearing issue.
Keith Barton mentioned the most recent hearing, which involved building a garage onto an older house. The issue was right of way and setbacks to determine the placement of the garage. [Blogger: I am not going to get into all of those details and interpretations; suffice it to say that that discussion continued between Keith and Zoning Commission members after the meeting and out into the parking lot for some time.
Lynn: The Zoning Inspector must go out and measure.
Vic asked a question that I missed, and Keith wanted definitions--except that they may be there, but not exactly where or as he was searching, from what I picked up in bits and pieces.
There was a lot more back and forth, with Keith wanting definitions, John Festa thinking that if Keith as a professional didn't understand it, then how could anyone else, and Jason trying to mediate and Bob saying that he just wanted to get it out on the table.
John Festa: Are we supposed to restrain the Zoning Inspector from doing his job because we don't know answers to these things? [Blogger: Where did that come from? And if John Dickey is having any difficulties with the book, why has he not gone to the Zoning Commission? A trustee who has been in office four years and who is not charged with concentrating on zoning is not going to be able to advise him--much less one who has been in office barely over two years. But here we are.]
Some reasonable statements came forth:
Bob: Time, perseverance, and patience accomplish all things.
Kathy Kelly: If we get to a point in a hearing [where we are unsure--blogger's insertion for clarity] we have to have a continuance.
[Blogger: This is something that no one mentioned until now. I can see the BZA, all of them conscientious, responsible people, doing their best to forge ahead despite the kinds of problems they described in this meeting, believing that they had to do that. But they don't. This is not a criticism; it is a comment about a mindset that is to their credit: This is our job, and we must do it. We will press forward.]
John Festa: I don't want you going into a hearing knowing that you are already unsure.
Vic: I think that if you have your first meeting and set the things you want to work on, we can have Todd Peetz come and maybe talk with Chris Meduri also.
Jason: We will let you guys figure those out. Bring questions and concerns back to the board. [Shouldn't those things be taken to the professionals: Todd Peetz and Chris Meduri?]
Blogger: This is not as concise as I had hoped, but it is shorter than it could have been. Stopping in the middle would have made no sense.
About This Blog
The purpose of this blog is to give an accurate account of what is said during Public Comment at Mantua Township Trustees meetings.
Trustees' decisions are in the official minutes, available on request from the Mantua Township Fiscal Officer, Jodi Thompson, at 330-274-8443. The Township charges 10 cents per page. FAX, 330-274-8447. E-mail, fiscalofficer@mantuatownshipohio.gov. The minutes are also posted on the website after they have been approved. That means that there is usually a two-week lag between a given meeting and the minutes being available to read on the website.
Since meetings are the first and third Thursdays of the month, there is a three-week wait during months with five Thursdays.
Other items of interest or the writer's opinions will be included from time to time, clearly identified.
This is not a forum or chat room, but a source of information, so it is closed to outside input.
During the time I have been doing the blog, the posts have expanded to become very detailed accounts of the meetings. Doing that is time consuming, to say the least, and I am going to try to return to the public comment focus, with background and perspective (and the occasional pointed editorial comment). Such additions are usually enclosed in brackets. However, since some extended accounts of the meetings reveal significant things--and character--better than I could by commenting, there will probably still be a fair amount of semi-transcript. (Sigh.)
My thanks to the readers who have found the blog, and to the ones who from time to time tell me that they value it. You have encouraged me when the tedious work of keyboarding has made me wonder why I am doing this. Then you have reminded me, and I am grateful.
Trustees' decisions are in the official minutes, available on request from the Mantua Township Fiscal Officer, Jodi Thompson, at 330-274-8443. The Township charges 10 cents per page. FAX, 330-274-8447. E-mail, fiscalofficer@mantuatownshipohio.gov. The minutes are also posted on the website after they have been approved. That means that there is usually a two-week lag between a given meeting and the minutes being available to read on the website.
Since meetings are the first and third Thursdays of the month, there is a three-week wait during months with five Thursdays.
Other items of interest or the writer's opinions will be included from time to time, clearly identified.
This is not a forum or chat room, but a source of information, so it is closed to outside input.
During the time I have been doing the blog, the posts have expanded to become very detailed accounts of the meetings. Doing that is time consuming, to say the least, and I am going to try to return to the public comment focus, with background and perspective (and the occasional pointed editorial comment). Such additions are usually enclosed in brackets. However, since some extended accounts of the meetings reveal significant things--and character--better than I could by commenting, there will probably still be a fair amount of semi-transcript. (Sigh.)
My thanks to the readers who have found the blog, and to the ones who from time to time tell me that they value it. You have encouraged me when the tedious work of keyboarding has made me wonder why I am doing this. Then you have reminded me, and I am grateful.
Principles
Two ideas guide and support me:
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
______Attributed to Edmund Burke
GOOD PREVAILS.
Those ideas are also the reason I have been doing the blog since late February 2011.
I have discovered that a transcript is almost impossible to do and that verbatim accounts are usually not absolutely necessary. When in doubt, I check against a recording.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
______Attributed to Edmund Burke
GOOD PREVAILS.
Those ideas are also the reason I have been doing the blog since late February 2011.
I have discovered that a transcript is almost impossible to do and that verbatim accounts are usually not absolutely necessary. When in doubt, I check against a recording.
