After the Fiscal Officer's report, Jason asked some questions about the road and bridge fund and asked if there was enough money to do crack seal.
Vic suggested waiting until next year for that. He also asked if money was set aside for salt. Answer: yes.
The Portage County Health Department is now sending reports on all inspections in the township.
New Land Bank funds are now available to acquire delinquent or abandoned properties
Beautification Committee, Frank Horack: Jim Aldrich asked me to come here and see if you were doing anything on the gazebo layout. Not to give the committee permission to built it but just to apply to the county to get estimates. Whether it goes in the bullpen or somewhere else, my commitment was to the committee. I took the preliminary plan to Charles Cochran and he had some changes to be made. It can not go without the zoning permit. Jim Aldrich asked me to ask about it. There will be changes between the two groups.
[Blogger: You might look at last meeting's discussion in which John Dickey said "yes" when Vic asked if in fact this approval was the equivalent of approving building the gazebo. At least, that is my memory of it. Regardless of what it was, the next step will define something. At present, what that is is cloaked in various disclaimers.]
Jason: I just want to be clear--you are just looking for approval on a structure, and anything that gets put up needs approval from us. We are still trying to get to the heart of the safety concerns and issues. It is not like this is what must go in.
Frank: This does not say that it is going there or even that it is going in. This is to get prices from the group.
Vic: At the last meeting I questioned John Dickey about it and I asked if this was approval to go ahead to build a gazebo.
Frank: No.
Vic: John Dickey said they had verbal approval of the gazebo as long as there were two changes.
Frank: The floor to asphalt height had to be ADA approved. The other was the design of the post. Charles Cochran might find other things to be changed. This is not that it will be built--that is the decision of the board.
Vic: I want to hear what will come back about the post.
Frank: [There is] a floating pad on about 10 inches of gravel. That way freezing and thawing will not crack anything. [Frank then explained how it would be done.]
Continuing: Charles Cochran was concerned about whether the building would lift up. We don't know the cost of it. If the plans get changed, the price gets changed. I don't have the time {?] It is up to you. As far as I know, the committee will pay for the cost of the permit.
John Festa: I wouldn't have any problem. Ultimately it is our decision. We are not allowing anything to be built until the safety factors have been addressed.
[Blogger: OK, safety has been mentioned a couple of times. But I have heard nothing about that in meetings except what Dave and I have said, and those comments are usually met with disgusted expressions or dismissal.]
Vic: I couldn't sign it because it doesn't really comply with our zoning at this time.
Frank Horack: What you are going to do with the form is that you approve of the design.
Vic: The application says that it meets our zoning.
Sue Skrovan (zoning commission secretary): When Jason wasn't here there was talk about whether the gazebo would be decorative so the ADA wasn't required.
Frank: People can still walk up to it and get onto it.
Sue: If it were just aesthetic, ADA wouldn't be a problem.
Frank: If you blocked it off with a little fence . . . .
Jason: I can't see . . . . If you go to any gazebos, the only time they are used is if people are getting pictures. More for aesthetics and [as] a centerpiece.
[Blogger: I differ about the uses of gazebos. To the best of my knowledge, Aurora, Hudson, and Brimfield all use their gazebos for concerts and other purposes. The Aurora gazebo is 26 feet wide. The one proposed for the bullpen was 16 feet wide at last count.]
Frank: If for aesthetics, the bullpen. For use, then another location. [The fragments may be my notetaking just to get the substance.]
Vic: Everything is on this area: Township Hall, Civic Center, and then other structures and then we are adding another one. [Blogger: Without taking 10 minutes to find this in the recording, this may actually be "and then no other structures." That would be because of the township's zoning ordinances.]
Vic, continuing: It doesn't comply with zoning. [Blogger: The point here, which Vic stated during the last meeting, is that the township has to comply with the township's own laws--but this will not comply if it is put through.]
Frank: According to John Dickey, it does comply.
Jason: If someone asks John Dickey for a permit, he has to give it to them. Jim Aldrich had talked with John Dickey, and John had gone through the book and did not see issues.
I don't have any objection with approving your getting a permit to get plans approved. But there would be no construction until the trustees approved it.
There was more discussion about the chicken and egg aspects of this.
Vic: We already have too many things on this property.
Frank: Why did John Dickey approve of this on this lot?
John Festa: This is just giving John Dickey an application for zoning.
Sue Skrovan: He kind of brought that up that once the application has been signed, it is to go to the zoning inspector and if he approves it then it goes to the county. There is an issue on this property because there is a main structure plus other ones.
John Festa: John Dickey just might deny it. [Blogger: And someone is trying to sell swampland in Death Valley.]
John Festa, continuing: I make a motion to apply for a permit for the gazebo on the bullpen and submit it to John Dickey for his approval.
Jason added that no construction was being approved. Then he seconded the motion.
Vote: John Festa, yes. Jason Carlton, yes. Victor Grimm, no.
Vic then explained that his vote was based on our zoning resolution.
[Blogger: I am not going to get into this here, but zoning has been an issue since John Vechery's death. What it looks like to me is that zoning is now being treated as a tool of the trustees and other interests, and the resolution (aka the zoning book) is interpreted rather than followed, and cherry picked to suit specific purposes. Read this post again carefully, with an eye to footwork and attention to how the comments prepare for what will look like a perfectly correct decision. I really want to see what plays out on this.
[That's enough for now. This is a long, full transcript of my notes because summarizing would not have given the full flavor of things.]
About This Blog
The purpose of this blog is to give an accurate account of what is said during Public Comment at Mantua Township Trustees meetings.
Trustees' decisions are in the official minutes, available on request from the Mantua Township Fiscal Officer, Jodi Thompson, at 330-274-8443. The Township charges 10 cents per page. FAX, 330-274-8447. E-mail, fiscalofficer@mantuatownshipohio.gov. The minutes are also posted on the website after they have been approved. That means that there is usually a two-week lag between a given meeting and the minutes being available to read on the website.
Since meetings are the first and third Thursdays of the month, there is a three-week wait during months with five Thursdays.
Other items of interest or the writer's opinions will be included from time to time, clearly identified.
This is not a forum or chat room, but a source of information, so it is closed to outside input.
During the time I have been doing the blog, the posts have expanded to become very detailed accounts of the meetings. Doing that is time consuming, to say the least, and I am going to try to return to the public comment focus, with background and perspective (and the occasional pointed editorial comment). Such additions are usually enclosed in brackets. However, since some extended accounts of the meetings reveal significant things--and character--better than I could by commenting, there will probably still be a fair amount of semi-transcript. (Sigh.)
My thanks to the readers who have found the blog, and to the ones who from time to time tell me that they value it. You have encouraged me when the tedious work of keyboarding has made me wonder why I am doing this. Then you have reminded me, and I am grateful.
Trustees' decisions are in the official minutes, available on request from the Mantua Township Fiscal Officer, Jodi Thompson, at 330-274-8443. The Township charges 10 cents per page. FAX, 330-274-8447. E-mail, fiscalofficer@mantuatownshipohio.gov. The minutes are also posted on the website after they have been approved. That means that there is usually a two-week lag between a given meeting and the minutes being available to read on the website.
Since meetings are the first and third Thursdays of the month, there is a three-week wait during months with five Thursdays.
Other items of interest or the writer's opinions will be included from time to time, clearly identified.
This is not a forum or chat room, but a source of information, so it is closed to outside input.
During the time I have been doing the blog, the posts have expanded to become very detailed accounts of the meetings. Doing that is time consuming, to say the least, and I am going to try to return to the public comment focus, with background and perspective (and the occasional pointed editorial comment). Such additions are usually enclosed in brackets. However, since some extended accounts of the meetings reveal significant things--and character--better than I could by commenting, there will probably still be a fair amount of semi-transcript. (Sigh.)
My thanks to the readers who have found the blog, and to the ones who from time to time tell me that they value it. You have encouraged me when the tedious work of keyboarding has made me wonder why I am doing this. Then you have reminded me, and I am grateful.
Principles
Two ideas guide and support me:
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
______Attributed to Edmund Burke
GOOD PREVAILS.
Those ideas are also the reason I have been doing the blog since late February 2011.
I have discovered that a transcript is almost impossible to do and that verbatim accounts are usually not absolutely necessary. When in doubt, I check against a recording.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
______Attributed to Edmund Burke
GOOD PREVAILS.
Those ideas are also the reason I have been doing the blog since late February 2011.
I have discovered that a transcript is almost impossible to do and that verbatim accounts are usually not absolutely necessary. When in doubt, I check against a recording.
