Club and Committee Reports:
Sue Skrovan, Mantua Center Garden Club: We will be meeting at a member's home in September. It will just be a regular meeting and getting organized.
LCA: Nothing to report.
Mantua Restoration Society, Inc., Carole Pollard: We have a food tent again at Derthicks' Corn Maze, with Dave Pollard and Susan Buckles in charge of good home made, home cooked food on Saturdays and Sundays when the weather permits.
On November 12, we are holding a Veterans' Day dance honoring the Vietnam and Korean War veterans, who will get in free. Once again, after voting, Dave and Susan will host refreshments at the Civic Center.
The Potato Festival was not a major event for us, although we had a booth there.
John Festa, Fire Board: Chief Roosa will be filing monthly reports to the trustees on such things as the number of incidents, mutual aid, number of vehicular collisions.
Next month, negotiations will begin for the agreement with the full time fire fighters. We may be staying with Mantua for dispatch services for one more year.
Beginning December 1, the Village will not be monitoring our buildings for fire [?]
We had our inspection and have not yet received our report.
There was some discussion about a phone line for the township hall for an alarm for the historical society.
Vic: The historical society, Daughters of America, LCA, and Garden Club all contributed to the alarm system here. It is mostly smoke detectors. The catch is a heat sensor. Mantua Village has answered any alarms in the past.
Jason clarified that no one is making contributions to the expense of that.
Vic: It used to be about $35.00/month.
Jason: I think the historical society should help pay for that. A lot of my family's heirlooms are upstairs. But I believe we should ask them for some funds.
John Festa: You can actually get a Wi-Fi connection in here but also run smoke, fire, and alarm systems. The systems are reasonable, only about $20/month. We can run the computers and whatever you need to run in the building and a fire system.
John Festa will meet with people next week about the same kind of thing at the school.
[Blogger: There was a bit more routine conversation about this topic.]
Jason: What I am getting at is that I think we need to keep the service but that the historical society needs to chip in as well. Maybe we can contact Linda Ehlert about this.
Jason is also going to check with Chris Meduri about renewing the lease for the clothing giveaway rooms. The trustees have received a check to pay for the lease for the coming year.
Discussion about health insurance followed. I did not take notes on that. The plan will have to change for next year.
Jason mentioned safety lighting and LEDs. The township can apply for the $500 grant from OTARMA to do that.
Jason mentioned the medical marijuana issue. There are several options, including a moratorium, which many communities have adopted.
John Festa thought we should probably contact Chris Meduri.
Jason thought it could be addressed either by the trustees or at the zoning level and thought a resolution by the trustees would be better. We will have to do something soon.
Vic, New Business: The preconstruction meeting was on September 8. They will need us to certify some money, but what they want us to certify is in the grant, which we do not have in our hands. I put Lisa Reeves [Regional Planning] in touch with the grant person in Columbus.
The second part is the electrical part. There have been a couple of walk-throughs. Hal Stamm has taken a couple of people through. The gentleman who was there on 9/8 will be coming back on Tuesday.
[Blogger: At that point there was some question about the re-bidding of the electrical contract, which was not advertised on the second round. I had talked with Lisa Reeves about that and explained to the trustees that under the circumstances this round could be done as a Request for Proposal sent out to various contractors.]
Frank Horack: Our company was the one with the original bid and got turned down. The second process (?) was sent in to Regional Planning. They never contacted our company. I called the commissioners and asked about it. The girl at Regional Planning told me that they sent out bid packages but we were never notified. This leaves a bad taste in our mouth. [Note: The estimate on the first round of the electrical contract for the elevator was about $35,000, give or take. Bids can exceed that by 10%. If they go over that, they must be rejected.]
Vic: I didn't know when they were going out.
John Festa: I don't doubt you but I don't think it was proper. [Blogger: Not sure to whom this comment was addressed.]
Frank: If I didn't make that phone call, I would never have a chance to rebid it.
Jason: Are you still able to rebid?
Frank: By the 21st.
John Festa: So you don't know.
Frank: Ask Todd Peetz why he did not contact us.
JF: It is out of the trustees' hands.
[Blogger: I did not take down every word of this, but during his comments Frank voiced the thought that there was something personal in not having gotten the package for the re-bid. He was also not sure whether they were going to re-bid. ]
[I also think Vic was going to check something about this. By now (September 30) the bids have been opened, and Frank's company did put one in. I want to get the figures exactly and then will post them in the blog.]
Jason mentioned logo designs.
Jason: The last thing is about the community center proposal. I sent everyone an email responding to Jeff Jackson's and Chad Delaney's concerns from the last meeting. I wanted to hear your thoughts.
Vic: For them to start something while we are in the construction phase --- we have to wait at least until the demo is done. That is going to be quite extensive. I have been trying to make sure we can vote and have the dance but then I am shifting rentals to the Civic Center.
[Blogger: I am going to stop here because what came next should be all in one spot, and I believe readers should come to it fresh rather than seeing it on the end of a post.]
Friday, September 30, 2016
Sunday, September 25, 2016
Trustees 9-15-16: Lots of fancy footwork, gazebo
After the Fiscal Officer's report, Jason asked some questions about the road and bridge fund and asked if there was enough money to do crack seal.
Vic suggested waiting until next year for that. He also asked if money was set aside for salt. Answer: yes.
The Portage County Health Department is now sending reports on all inspections in the township.
New Land Bank funds are now available to acquire delinquent or abandoned properties
Beautification Committee, Frank Horack: Jim Aldrich asked me to come here and see if you were doing anything on the gazebo layout. Not to give the committee permission to built it but just to apply to the county to get estimates. Whether it goes in the bullpen or somewhere else, my commitment was to the committee. I took the preliminary plan to Charles Cochran and he had some changes to be made. It can not go without the zoning permit. Jim Aldrich asked me to ask about it. There will be changes between the two groups.
[Blogger: You might look at last meeting's discussion in which John Dickey said "yes" when Vic asked if in fact this approval was the equivalent of approving building the gazebo. At least, that is my memory of it. Regardless of what it was, the next step will define something. At present, what that is is cloaked in various disclaimers.]
Jason: I just want to be clear--you are just looking for approval on a structure, and anything that gets put up needs approval from us. We are still trying to get to the heart of the safety concerns and issues. It is not like this is what must go in.
Frank: This does not say that it is going there or even that it is going in. This is to get prices from the group.
Vic: At the last meeting I questioned John Dickey about it and I asked if this was approval to go ahead to build a gazebo.
Frank: No.
Vic: John Dickey said they had verbal approval of the gazebo as long as there were two changes.
Frank: The floor to asphalt height had to be ADA approved. The other was the design of the post. Charles Cochran might find other things to be changed. This is not that it will be built--that is the decision of the board.
Vic: I want to hear what will come back about the post.
Frank: [There is] a floating pad on about 10 inches of gravel. That way freezing and thawing will not crack anything. [Frank then explained how it would be done.]
Continuing: Charles Cochran was concerned about whether the building would lift up. We don't know the cost of it. If the plans get changed, the price gets changed. I don't have the time {?] It is up to you. As far as I know, the committee will pay for the cost of the permit.
John Festa: I wouldn't have any problem. Ultimately it is our decision. We are not allowing anything to be built until the safety factors have been addressed.
[Blogger: OK, safety has been mentioned a couple of times. But I have heard nothing about that in meetings except what Dave and I have said, and those comments are usually met with disgusted expressions or dismissal.]
Vic: I couldn't sign it because it doesn't really comply with our zoning at this time.
Frank Horack: What you are going to do with the form is that you approve of the design.
Vic: The application says that it meets our zoning.
Sue Skrovan (zoning commission secretary): When Jason wasn't here there was talk about whether the gazebo would be decorative so the ADA wasn't required.
Frank: People can still walk up to it and get onto it.
Sue: If it were just aesthetic, ADA wouldn't be a problem.
Frank: If you blocked it off with a little fence . . . .
Jason: I can't see . . . . If you go to any gazebos, the only time they are used is if people are getting pictures. More for aesthetics and [as] a centerpiece.
[Blogger: I differ about the uses of gazebos. To the best of my knowledge, Aurora, Hudson, and Brimfield all use their gazebos for concerts and other purposes. The Aurora gazebo is 26 feet wide. The one proposed for the bullpen was 16 feet wide at last count.]
Frank: If for aesthetics, the bullpen. For use, then another location. [The fragments may be my notetaking just to get the substance.]
Vic: Everything is on this area: Township Hall, Civic Center, and then other structures and then we are adding another one. [Blogger: Without taking 10 minutes to find this in the recording, this may actually be "and then no other structures." That would be because of the township's zoning ordinances.]
Vic, continuing: It doesn't comply with zoning. [Blogger: The point here, which Vic stated during the last meeting, is that the township has to comply with the township's own laws--but this will not comply if it is put through.]
Frank: According to John Dickey, it does comply.
Jason: If someone asks John Dickey for a permit, he has to give it to them. Jim Aldrich had talked with John Dickey, and John had gone through the book and did not see issues.
I don't have any objection with approving your getting a permit to get plans approved. But there would be no construction until the trustees approved it.
There was more discussion about the chicken and egg aspects of this.
Vic: We already have too many things on this property.
Frank: Why did John Dickey approve of this on this lot?
John Festa: This is just giving John Dickey an application for zoning.
Sue Skrovan: He kind of brought that up that once the application has been signed, it is to go to the zoning inspector and if he approves it then it goes to the county. There is an issue on this property because there is a main structure plus other ones.
John Festa: John Dickey just might deny it. [Blogger: And someone is trying to sell swampland in Death Valley.]
John Festa, continuing: I make a motion to apply for a permit for the gazebo on the bullpen and submit it to John Dickey for his approval.
Jason added that no construction was being approved. Then he seconded the motion.
Vote: John Festa, yes. Jason Carlton, yes. Victor Grimm, no.
Vic then explained that his vote was based on our zoning resolution.
[Blogger: I am not going to get into this here, but zoning has been an issue since John Vechery's death. What it looks like to me is that zoning is now being treated as a tool of the trustees and other interests, and the resolution (aka the zoning book) is interpreted rather than followed, and cherry picked to suit specific purposes. Read this post again carefully, with an eye to footwork and attention to how the comments prepare for what will look like a perfectly correct decision. I really want to see what plays out on this.
[That's enough for now. This is a long, full transcript of my notes because summarizing would not have given the full flavor of things.]
Vic suggested waiting until next year for that. He also asked if money was set aside for salt. Answer: yes.
The Portage County Health Department is now sending reports on all inspections in the township.
New Land Bank funds are now available to acquire delinquent or abandoned properties
Beautification Committee, Frank Horack: Jim Aldrich asked me to come here and see if you were doing anything on the gazebo layout. Not to give the committee permission to built it but just to apply to the county to get estimates. Whether it goes in the bullpen or somewhere else, my commitment was to the committee. I took the preliminary plan to Charles Cochran and he had some changes to be made. It can not go without the zoning permit. Jim Aldrich asked me to ask about it. There will be changes between the two groups.
[Blogger: You might look at last meeting's discussion in which John Dickey said "yes" when Vic asked if in fact this approval was the equivalent of approving building the gazebo. At least, that is my memory of it. Regardless of what it was, the next step will define something. At present, what that is is cloaked in various disclaimers.]
Jason: I just want to be clear--you are just looking for approval on a structure, and anything that gets put up needs approval from us. We are still trying to get to the heart of the safety concerns and issues. It is not like this is what must go in.
Frank: This does not say that it is going there or even that it is going in. This is to get prices from the group.
Vic: At the last meeting I questioned John Dickey about it and I asked if this was approval to go ahead to build a gazebo.
Frank: No.
Vic: John Dickey said they had verbal approval of the gazebo as long as there were two changes.
Frank: The floor to asphalt height had to be ADA approved. The other was the design of the post. Charles Cochran might find other things to be changed. This is not that it will be built--that is the decision of the board.
Vic: I want to hear what will come back about the post.
Frank: [There is] a floating pad on about 10 inches of gravel. That way freezing and thawing will not crack anything. [Frank then explained how it would be done.]
Continuing: Charles Cochran was concerned about whether the building would lift up. We don't know the cost of it. If the plans get changed, the price gets changed. I don't have the time {?] It is up to you. As far as I know, the committee will pay for the cost of the permit.
John Festa: I wouldn't have any problem. Ultimately it is our decision. We are not allowing anything to be built until the safety factors have been addressed.
[Blogger: OK, safety has been mentioned a couple of times. But I have heard nothing about that in meetings except what Dave and I have said, and those comments are usually met with disgusted expressions or dismissal.]
Vic: I couldn't sign it because it doesn't really comply with our zoning at this time.
Frank Horack: What you are going to do with the form is that you approve of the design.
Vic: The application says that it meets our zoning.
Sue Skrovan (zoning commission secretary): When Jason wasn't here there was talk about whether the gazebo would be decorative so the ADA wasn't required.
Frank: People can still walk up to it and get onto it.
Sue: If it were just aesthetic, ADA wouldn't be a problem.
Frank: If you blocked it off with a little fence . . . .
Jason: I can't see . . . . If you go to any gazebos, the only time they are used is if people are getting pictures. More for aesthetics and [as] a centerpiece.
[Blogger: I differ about the uses of gazebos. To the best of my knowledge, Aurora, Hudson, and Brimfield all use their gazebos for concerts and other purposes. The Aurora gazebo is 26 feet wide. The one proposed for the bullpen was 16 feet wide at last count.]
Frank: If for aesthetics, the bullpen. For use, then another location. [The fragments may be my notetaking just to get the substance.]
Vic: Everything is on this area: Township Hall, Civic Center, and then other structures and then we are adding another one. [Blogger: Without taking 10 minutes to find this in the recording, this may actually be "and then no other structures." That would be because of the township's zoning ordinances.]
Vic, continuing: It doesn't comply with zoning. [Blogger: The point here, which Vic stated during the last meeting, is that the township has to comply with the township's own laws--but this will not comply if it is put through.]
Frank: According to John Dickey, it does comply.
Jason: If someone asks John Dickey for a permit, he has to give it to them. Jim Aldrich had talked with John Dickey, and John had gone through the book and did not see issues.
I don't have any objection with approving your getting a permit to get plans approved. But there would be no construction until the trustees approved it.
There was more discussion about the chicken and egg aspects of this.
Vic: We already have too many things on this property.
Frank: Why did John Dickey approve of this on this lot?
John Festa: This is just giving John Dickey an application for zoning.
Sue Skrovan: He kind of brought that up that once the application has been signed, it is to go to the zoning inspector and if he approves it then it goes to the county. There is an issue on this property because there is a main structure plus other ones.
John Festa: John Dickey just might deny it. [Blogger: And someone is trying to sell swampland in Death Valley.]
John Festa, continuing: I make a motion to apply for a permit for the gazebo on the bullpen and submit it to John Dickey for his approval.
Jason added that no construction was being approved. Then he seconded the motion.
Vote: John Festa, yes. Jason Carlton, yes. Victor Grimm, no.
Vic then explained that his vote was based on our zoning resolution.
[Blogger: I am not going to get into this here, but zoning has been an issue since John Vechery's death. What it looks like to me is that zoning is now being treated as a tool of the trustees and other interests, and the resolution (aka the zoning book) is interpreted rather than followed, and cherry picked to suit specific purposes. Read this post again carefully, with an eye to footwork and attention to how the comments prepare for what will look like a perfectly correct decision. I really want to see what plays out on this.
[That's enough for now. This is a long, full transcript of my notes because summarizing would not have given the full flavor of things.]
Wednesday, September 14, 2016
9-5-16 Trustees Public Comment--Clear and Blunt
Blogger Foreword: There was a bit more about the actual boundaries of the property Mrs. Weber is discussing with the township, with a lot of it shrouded in history. It was inconclusive, and I did not have it in my notes but picked it up in positioning the recording to begin public comment. There is always more in the meetings than I have the note taking speed or the keyboarding stamina to get into the blog. If you really want that, the choices are to come to the meetings or watch the videos of the meetings. OK. Here goes public comment, and your faithful blogger was first in the order.
Carole Pollard: I want to summarize something I said earlier. As awkward as this may have been tonight, this brings more together and more to work with. We have a task force that has agreed to be part of this, and they pull more together of the community than the four committees do. The committees are all the usual suspects--almost all are in the restoration society. This is exactly the right time, and right source of impetus and it may be awkward, but I thought that was what we were working for all along. [A plan and a way forward to really use this building.] The task force and the existing committees should be able to do a dynamite job.
This is like people trying to avoid having the feather come down on their heads [to designate someone who would be doing a difficult job]. It is their job, no, it is their job, so nothing gets done. It is time for some things to get done and whoever feels the greatest need is the source of getting something done.
This is not a surprise. It is absolutely no surprise. It has been pushed off to the side. The committees have been convened, but there is no regular schedule for their meeting and talking and no strategic plan and there is a point at which the assessment committee gets phased out.
Sorry if I'm boring you, John.
[John Festa was making disgusted faces and shaking his head and generally being rude. Tough. He has done a great deal to earn the kinds of comments that Dave and I in particular made this evening, and in listening to Dave's earlier comments about how John Festa should have known about the conflict of interest, I realized how much I condensed his remarks in order to get the substance of them. He pushed John Festa hard on how he absolutely should have known better.
[And he did. I talked to Todd Peetz shortly after this meeting, and he told me that he had told John Festa several times that his company could not bid the elevator project. So all of that posturing in the previous meeting about not knowing about the conflict of interest clause? Completely disingenuous (an elegant term for in inelegant 3-letter word meaning falsehood. Want me to spell it out? Lie.).]
Continuing: If the whole thing does not move forward now, it will be pretty clear that there was never any intention of it ever moving forward. That is stuff we heard for years: the elevator was put forth as something that would kill the project [to make the school useful]. That didn't happen. [It didn't stop things--we went ahead and got the grant to install an elevator.]
What Jeff and Chad are suggesting as a teen center--there are grants available now that were not available before. It is a matter of keeping the ball rolling. It has been a lurch forward and a long rest and a lurch forward and a long rest. It is time to keep the ball rolling steadily forward.
Bill Kelley had no comment.
Mary Ann Weber: Is that really the best place for a gazebo, with small children there? If it is just decorative, why not make a bigger one that is more usable? Also, I asked about keeping something open as access to my property. I was told that it was township property. My attorney told me that since that is the sole access to my property, access has to be kept open.
Dave Pollard: A couple of observations. It is interesting that states are allowing medical marijuana to be grown, but if you are trying to grow hemp, which is a source of paper, the government will come in and destroy it. A governmental dichotomy.
Edinburg has a gazebo with roads on two sides. I have never seen anyone in there. It looks like just an ornament. The people who should hear this always leave before it comes up.
[Blogger: That was a reference to the fact that John Dickey, Jim Aldrich, Amy Janca, and Barb Herbold always leave once they have had their say. One would think that they would be interested in the rest of the discourse about this topic, unless they know that all they have to do is wait until the trustees (well, two of them) bring out the rubber stamp.]
Dave, continuing: If the gazebo is not to be actually used but just admired, will you have to have parking?
John Festa: Our risk insurance company said no, you do not need parking.
Dave: Looking at this sketch over here, all this with Mrs. Weber is moot. The ORC might change some of that. Because if it is going to be used, you are going to have to have a porta-potty.
I am struck by the contrast between Mrs. Weber's situation and Bill Kelley's discussions about School Lane. We are talking about a few hundred feet compared to several thousand.
Bill: 3/4 acre.
Dave: Bill Kelley has brought this up and has been ignored but you are hellbent that Mrs. Weber not have even an inch. If it continues, it leaves the township wide open to a lawsuit, and it is something that you will not want to face. But you will have to be more even handed in your approach.
Sue Skrovan: Three comments. One, regarding the fair board. Some pictures needed to be updated from the BZA and zoning commission. I wanted to thank Carole Pollard who has always come on a Sunday to come and help clean it up. Also, the road crew came and took it to the fair.
The other thing is that talking about the committees, it would be a good idea to get them together and see about the master plan. I thought the committee for the master plan would be the utilization committee. I thought the building assessment committee were assessing the needs and structural integrity. Now that the elevator is going in, that opens all the doors. I don't see how we couldn't finish the plan. We need to meet and get it done. Thank you.
[Blogger: That ended the public comment. I did not stay, but walked out with several other people. There were some discussions in the parking lot about the incomprehensibility of John Festa's argument and purpose. If you know who backed him for election and have been reading the blog regularly, you know what his purpose has always been: to oppose anything that moves the school forward. He seems to think that he can keep us from seeing that. Right.]
Carole Pollard: I want to summarize something I said earlier. As awkward as this may have been tonight, this brings more together and more to work with. We have a task force that has agreed to be part of this, and they pull more together of the community than the four committees do. The committees are all the usual suspects--almost all are in the restoration society. This is exactly the right time, and right source of impetus and it may be awkward, but I thought that was what we were working for all along. [A plan and a way forward to really use this building.] The task force and the existing committees should be able to do a dynamite job.
This is like people trying to avoid having the feather come down on their heads [to designate someone who would be doing a difficult job]. It is their job, no, it is their job, so nothing gets done. It is time for some things to get done and whoever feels the greatest need is the source of getting something done.
This is not a surprise. It is absolutely no surprise. It has been pushed off to the side. The committees have been convened, but there is no regular schedule for their meeting and talking and no strategic plan and there is a point at which the assessment committee gets phased out.
Sorry if I'm boring you, John.
[John Festa was making disgusted faces and shaking his head and generally being rude. Tough. He has done a great deal to earn the kinds of comments that Dave and I in particular made this evening, and in listening to Dave's earlier comments about how John Festa should have known about the conflict of interest, I realized how much I condensed his remarks in order to get the substance of them. He pushed John Festa hard on how he absolutely should have known better.
[And he did. I talked to Todd Peetz shortly after this meeting, and he told me that he had told John Festa several times that his company could not bid the elevator project. So all of that posturing in the previous meeting about not knowing about the conflict of interest clause? Completely disingenuous (an elegant term for in inelegant 3-letter word meaning falsehood. Want me to spell it out? Lie.).]
Continuing: If the whole thing does not move forward now, it will be pretty clear that there was never any intention of it ever moving forward. That is stuff we heard for years: the elevator was put forth as something that would kill the project [to make the school useful]. That didn't happen. [It didn't stop things--we went ahead and got the grant to install an elevator.]
What Jeff and Chad are suggesting as a teen center--there are grants available now that were not available before. It is a matter of keeping the ball rolling. It has been a lurch forward and a long rest and a lurch forward and a long rest. It is time to keep the ball rolling steadily forward.
Bill Kelley had no comment.
Mary Ann Weber: Is that really the best place for a gazebo, with small children there? If it is just decorative, why not make a bigger one that is more usable? Also, I asked about keeping something open as access to my property. I was told that it was township property. My attorney told me that since that is the sole access to my property, access has to be kept open.
Dave Pollard: A couple of observations. It is interesting that states are allowing medical marijuana to be grown, but if you are trying to grow hemp, which is a source of paper, the government will come in and destroy it. A governmental dichotomy.
Edinburg has a gazebo with roads on two sides. I have never seen anyone in there. It looks like just an ornament. The people who should hear this always leave before it comes up.
[Blogger: That was a reference to the fact that John Dickey, Jim Aldrich, Amy Janca, and Barb Herbold always leave once they have had their say. One would think that they would be interested in the rest of the discourse about this topic, unless they know that all they have to do is wait until the trustees (well, two of them) bring out the rubber stamp.]
Dave, continuing: If the gazebo is not to be actually used but just admired, will you have to have parking?
John Festa: Our risk insurance company said no, you do not need parking.
Dave: Looking at this sketch over here, all this with Mrs. Weber is moot. The ORC might change some of that. Because if it is going to be used, you are going to have to have a porta-potty.
I am struck by the contrast between Mrs. Weber's situation and Bill Kelley's discussions about School Lane. We are talking about a few hundred feet compared to several thousand.
Bill: 3/4 acre.
Dave: Bill Kelley has brought this up and has been ignored but you are hellbent that Mrs. Weber not have even an inch. If it continues, it leaves the township wide open to a lawsuit, and it is something that you will not want to face. But you will have to be more even handed in your approach.
Sue Skrovan: Three comments. One, regarding the fair board. Some pictures needed to be updated from the BZA and zoning commission. I wanted to thank Carole Pollard who has always come on a Sunday to come and help clean it up. Also, the road crew came and took it to the fair.
The other thing is that talking about the committees, it would be a good idea to get them together and see about the master plan. I thought the committee for the master plan would be the utilization committee. I thought the building assessment committee were assessing the needs and structural integrity. Now that the elevator is going in, that opens all the doors. I don't see how we couldn't finish the plan. We need to meet and get it done. Thank you.
[Blogger: That ended the public comment. I did not stay, but walked out with several other people. There were some discussions in the parking lot about the incomprehensibility of John Festa's argument and purpose. If you know who backed him for election and have been reading the blog regularly, you know what his purpose has always been: to oppose anything that moves the school forward. He seems to think that he can keep us from seeing that. Right.]
Tuesday, September 13, 2016
Routine; then Community Center--not routine
Club and Committee reports: Garden club will have its first meeting the 3rd Wednesday in September and try to decide what plants need to be moved.
The restoration society was not on the list for this meeting, but the little art quilt project got off to an enthusiastic start.
The fire inspection has been conducted, and upgrades will need to be taken care of.
There was also something about how many phone lines are in the school building and how many are needed.
How the fire alarm system will be handled in the township hall will have to be discussed with the historical society.
John Festa mentioned renewing the health insurance and checking to see if renewal before a certain date would prevent a rate increase.
Medical marijuana is now something that must be considered. Neither present trustee seemed excited about getting onto that bandwagon. Quite the contrary.
The fair board was updated and taken to the fair to be displayed. Thirteen townships had boards on display, but this year they were not judged.
At that point Vic turned the meeting over to Chad Delaney and Jeff Jackson. [Blogger: I have many pages of notes on their presentation. Get a cup of coffee, dear reader.]
Jeff: First we wanted to introduce Benton Stull. He is our NBA Xplor intern, who will have a 10-month term. We have the task force started and everybody has come to the trustees and we presented the proposal last month. We kind of need to know what is your plan for proceeding. We don't want to jump the gun or stop the enthusiasm.
John Festa: I am very happy that you see some benefit for the building. [Unlike trustee Festa, who tries his worst to pretend that it does not exist. But wait--it gets lots better.]We are still going through a process with the elevator project. We haven't even really approved the master plan of the building. That is all the committees put together.
Continuing: We have never had a conclusion to our community committees on the building. We have the grant for the elevator, and that is where the process has stopped. That doesn't mean that it isn't going forward.
Second, you folks are asking for three rooms to begin with.
Jeff: We want to renovate three rooms.
JF: And then add more.
Jeff: We just want to start with volunteers for three rooms.
JF: I don't even know if we have three rooms available. [Blogger: There are 9 sizable rooms in the building, not counting the gym. Two are in use.]
Jeff: The community room [Blogger: I believe that is the north room on the main floor.] and the two rooms at the bottom. The room planned for the child care center and the community room. [?] We know that the occupancy permit is already there.
We have been working with the schools and want to begin with a dry bar and teen cafe. We can have these meetings over there with a high tech ability to give a presentation.
JF: A lot of it is economics and part is switching [?] about going forward. We haven't decided about our committees' recommendations.
Jeff: You are ready to use the building and for the the last three years . . . . We are asking to be part of the master plan.
JF: It is up to the committees. [Blogger: Watch how the committees vis a vis the trustees show up throughout this discussion.]
We aren't asking for anything. [Blogger: I do not have a note about who made that comment.]
Jeff: We have spoken to people on all four committees. The committees say we need your approval. Right now we are looking for a time frame. We don't have to wait for the elevator.
Chad: The document we gave to you--Jason asked us to come up with a proposal. We gave that to you and now it is a discussion with you. If you say one room, then it is one room. We want to work with you. We want to know the issues and whether they are surmountable.
[Blogger: The computer decided to boldface those two sentences, and I decided to leave them that way.]
Vic: I would like to see this phased in but it would be a mistake to try to do too much until the main demo work is done. [Blogger: That refers to cutting openings into the places which will accommodate the elevator car and its doors, among other things.] It will be a mess and dust will be everywhere.
One of the big things is our budget. We had to move things around to come up with $10,000 for the elevator. Some things are done. The bathrooms are ADA and are usable. The center room downstairs--that will be a staging room for stuff for the elevator.
We are looking for a space for Benton to have a little office, but the main floor is where the construction is going on. We can probably still offer space right here--the corner of the township hall. We have a hotspot and [can] see if it will reboot and work here.
I have to run this by the other two trustees. This building is not really used that much during the day. He would be close to the church and bathrooms are downstairs. The copier is over there thought. It is expensive and needs to be covered up.
Vic: Once they begin the elevator project, they are going to take out a bunch of the heating system and we have to seal off the fan so dust does not go throughout the building. The main room should probably be sealed off.
John Dickey and Jim Aldrich are using the east room.
Jeff: I don't think we will have a problem with working around this. The building is sitting there not being used. We want to pay to use the building.
Vic: Once the steel stairs are done, they will need to be painted. [He then described that process.]
Chad: So the elevator needs to get in and will cause some construction issues and from John Festa some input from the committees. Do you want to hear directly as the trustees what they want?
JF: We need to continue doing what we set out to do first.
Chad: So the proposal we gave--is it not broad scoped enough, or it will be further down the line? Are we invited to help shape that master plan, or does this need to come from another source? We want to be helpful.
Jeff: No one is working on a master plan now. We worked on putting things together from trhe committees. I don't understand.
The committees.
John Festa: The first time I read this I liked the idea. You have it in steps. You have Year 1 to do research. This is Week 4. You are asking us to make a commitment.
Jeff: I don't know anyone until this moment who has been working on a master plan. We were going to let the community decide what they are going to do with their building.
JF: Take it to the Assessment Committee.
Jeff: What we are asking it to begin doing programming that is available now that the building will function to have and will support it. You are doing things now and we know that it is ___.
Vic: The dance class is only temporary.
JF: I am not trying to discourage you. Until we have a plan that says what we want to do and how much it will cost . . . .
Chad: When we talked to Jason, the proposal was a way to get discussion started. We just want to be part of a constructive future. Our main goal is just to provide that space for the community to use. What would you recommend as the next steps for us--to take it to the committees and have them assess it?
JF: If the utilization committee says that we want you to give them a room in the building . . . .[Blogger: He then went on a bit, my notes say]
Chad: Just so we can move forward.
Vic: I understand the need for space. The other group that was interested in the building was the Red Cross. They did a walk-through and there is four different ways they could use the building. The main thing was money to do the renovations. They had changed directors and it fell into limbo. You might want to talk to him. There is no evacuation center in this area.
The renters upstairs will have to be moved out. We don't know how much brickwork will have to be moved.
Chad: So the elevator will take a significant time to get it in.
JF: 12-14 weeks.
Vic: A contract has been issued for the job and the electrical bid has been put out today. The other construction part could be started.
Jeff: So it is good to go through with the process.
Vic: The commissioners have been generous. We have gotten two from the commissioners and one from Senator Eklund.
Jeff: Will the gym be usable?
Vic: To a certain extent. When the electricity is changed over . . . . I have been backing off rentals.
John Festa: We don't want to dissuade you. [Blogger: He often makes statements like this, but the sense of it is exactly to be dissuaded and discouraged, and I'm not sure it's in my notes, but at one point he made a comment like that to Jeff, who said that he did feel discouraged.]
Chad: Our thing is what is the timeline? Are we working on getting ____? The time is now to begin working with the teens. Some of this is time sensitive, but we need to have a sense of what is involved. We are having conversations with the principals about the programs. We appreciate the feedback so we know what we are doing.
Vic: We wish we could have started this project in June.
At this point, Vic gave Matt Merchant, the Record Courier reporter, a chance to ask a question:
Matt: Are the trustees asking for all of the committees to get together and spearhead the master plan? I think there seems to be confusion.
Jeff: No one is pushing the process. [Blogger: Dead on the money there.]
Vic: As far as the construction, we should know something by next week.
JF: Can you consider using the Civic Center?
Jeff: I feel good about how the process is now and how we can work together.
JF: We were going gang busters with the master plan. Then we had the opportunity to get the elevator.
Jeff: You are a small group and only have so much energy to do this.
Vic gave Dave Pollard a chance to comment.
Dave: Sitting here, I have heard that the trustees are responsible for the master plan and there is still no master plan and then we hear that it is up to the committee. The Assessment Committee was pretty well primed six months ago to develop a master plan. The elevator should not bring everything else to a halt but it looks as if that is what has happened.
We were supposed to be in there. [Blogger: I do not have a note about who said that. Dave's next remark clearly addresses the conflict of interest that John Festa so elaborately tried to convince everyone he knew nothing about. At some point I will lay out the path of his argument about that, but not just yet.]
Dave, continuing: You are a trustee and should have known it and this is another delay. When are the new bids for the construction going to be out?
When are they going to re-start?
Vic: One of the reasons they couldn't start was that they come within [under?] the 10% but that has been worked out. They will walk through the construction next week. We will know better then.
The electrical work has not been let out. If it is up to the committees, I am not sure they know that.
Dave: We have heard meeting after meeting about the master plan, but no progress. Grants and Funding has been out front. Grants and Funding are not the ones causing any delays. The committees are willing to go ahead. They are not causing the delays. Those bottlenecks need to be eliminated. The committees need to be made aware of that.
Vic: This has gone on a lot longer than Lisa Reeves (Regional Planning) expected.
Dave: When the sexton and Zoning Inspector wanted to move in, they just moved in. If these folks are willing and have the people together to do the work, it will save the township money.
Matt Merchant: Is not the progress of the elevator part of the overall master plan?
JF: If there had been a master plan.
Matt: The trustees seem to be part of that.
JF: No. Talk to Todd Peetz--he is the facilitator. [Blogger: Todd now seems to be the third designee who should be working on or who has the responsibility for the master plan. Does this sound like trying to avoid responsibility, or what?]
Jeff: Cost of rental--part of the master plan?
Vic: Yes.
Then Vic started to say something about Todd Peetz, which tapered off and then became this:
That turned into more than we expected.
Chad: Thanks to everyone here.
Vic: Under Old Business: We have talked about that enough.
[Blogger: Public Comment came next, and it will be a separate post. I will need to use the recording for part of it, and that is going to take some time. This post has not been proofread, but only corrected on the run.]
The restoration society was not on the list for this meeting, but the little art quilt project got off to an enthusiastic start.
The fire inspection has been conducted, and upgrades will need to be taken care of.
There was also something about how many phone lines are in the school building and how many are needed.
How the fire alarm system will be handled in the township hall will have to be discussed with the historical society.
John Festa mentioned renewing the health insurance and checking to see if renewal before a certain date would prevent a rate increase.
Medical marijuana is now something that must be considered. Neither present trustee seemed excited about getting onto that bandwagon. Quite the contrary.
The fair board was updated and taken to the fair to be displayed. Thirteen townships had boards on display, but this year they were not judged.
At that point Vic turned the meeting over to Chad Delaney and Jeff Jackson. [Blogger: I have many pages of notes on their presentation. Get a cup of coffee, dear reader.]
Jeff: First we wanted to introduce Benton Stull. He is our NBA Xplor intern, who will have a 10-month term. We have the task force started and everybody has come to the trustees and we presented the proposal last month. We kind of need to know what is your plan for proceeding. We don't want to jump the gun or stop the enthusiasm.
John Festa: I am very happy that you see some benefit for the building. [Unlike trustee Festa, who tries his worst to pretend that it does not exist. But wait--it gets lots better.]We are still going through a process with the elevator project. We haven't even really approved the master plan of the building. That is all the committees put together.
Continuing: We have never had a conclusion to our community committees on the building. We have the grant for the elevator, and that is where the process has stopped. That doesn't mean that it isn't going forward.
Second, you folks are asking for three rooms to begin with.
Jeff: We want to renovate three rooms.
JF: And then add more.
Jeff: We just want to start with volunteers for three rooms.
JF: I don't even know if we have three rooms available. [Blogger: There are 9 sizable rooms in the building, not counting the gym. Two are in use.]
Jeff: The community room [Blogger: I believe that is the north room on the main floor.] and the two rooms at the bottom. The room planned for the child care center and the community room. [?] We know that the occupancy permit is already there.
We have been working with the schools and want to begin with a dry bar and teen cafe. We can have these meetings over there with a high tech ability to give a presentation.
JF: A lot of it is economics and part is switching [?] about going forward. We haven't decided about our committees' recommendations.
Jeff: You are ready to use the building and for the the last three years . . . . We are asking to be part of the master plan.
JF: It is up to the committees. [Blogger: Watch how the committees vis a vis the trustees show up throughout this discussion.]
We aren't asking for anything. [Blogger: I do not have a note about who made that comment.]
Jeff: We have spoken to people on all four committees. The committees say we need your approval. Right now we are looking for a time frame. We don't have to wait for the elevator.
Chad: The document we gave to you--Jason asked us to come up with a proposal. We gave that to you and now it is a discussion with you. If you say one room, then it is one room. We want to work with you. We want to know the issues and whether they are surmountable.
[Blogger: The computer decided to boldface those two sentences, and I decided to leave them that way.]
Vic: I would like to see this phased in but it would be a mistake to try to do too much until the main demo work is done. [Blogger: That refers to cutting openings into the places which will accommodate the elevator car and its doors, among other things.] It will be a mess and dust will be everywhere.
One of the big things is our budget. We had to move things around to come up with $10,000 for the elevator. Some things are done. The bathrooms are ADA and are usable. The center room downstairs--that will be a staging room for stuff for the elevator.
We are looking for a space for Benton to have a little office, but the main floor is where the construction is going on. We can probably still offer space right here--the corner of the township hall. We have a hotspot and [can] see if it will reboot and work here.
I have to run this by the other two trustees. This building is not really used that much during the day. He would be close to the church and bathrooms are downstairs. The copier is over there thought. It is expensive and needs to be covered up.
Vic: Once they begin the elevator project, they are going to take out a bunch of the heating system and we have to seal off the fan so dust does not go throughout the building. The main room should probably be sealed off.
John Dickey and Jim Aldrich are using the east room.
Jeff: I don't think we will have a problem with working around this. The building is sitting there not being used. We want to pay to use the building.
Vic: Once the steel stairs are done, they will need to be painted. [He then described that process.]
Chad: So the elevator needs to get in and will cause some construction issues and from John Festa some input from the committees. Do you want to hear directly as the trustees what they want?
JF: We need to continue doing what we set out to do first.
Chad: So the proposal we gave--is it not broad scoped enough, or it will be further down the line? Are we invited to help shape that master plan, or does this need to come from another source? We want to be helpful.
Jeff: No one is working on a master plan now. We worked on putting things together from trhe committees. I don't understand.
The committees.
John Festa: The first time I read this I liked the idea. You have it in steps. You have Year 1 to do research. This is Week 4. You are asking us to make a commitment.
Jeff: I don't know anyone until this moment who has been working on a master plan. We were going to let the community decide what they are going to do with their building.
JF: Take it to the Assessment Committee.
Jeff: What we are asking it to begin doing programming that is available now that the building will function to have and will support it. You are doing things now and we know that it is ___.
Vic: The dance class is only temporary.
JF: I am not trying to discourage you. Until we have a plan that says what we want to do and how much it will cost . . . .
Chad: When we talked to Jason, the proposal was a way to get discussion started. We just want to be part of a constructive future. Our main goal is just to provide that space for the community to use. What would you recommend as the next steps for us--to take it to the committees and have them assess it?
JF: If the utilization committee says that we want you to give them a room in the building . . . .[Blogger: He then went on a bit, my notes say]
Chad: Just so we can move forward.
Vic: I understand the need for space. The other group that was interested in the building was the Red Cross. They did a walk-through and there is four different ways they could use the building. The main thing was money to do the renovations. They had changed directors and it fell into limbo. You might want to talk to him. There is no evacuation center in this area.
The renters upstairs will have to be moved out. We don't know how much brickwork will have to be moved.
Chad: So the elevator will take a significant time to get it in.
JF: 12-14 weeks.
Vic: A contract has been issued for the job and the electrical bid has been put out today. The other construction part could be started.
Jeff: So it is good to go through with the process.
Vic: The commissioners have been generous. We have gotten two from the commissioners and one from Senator Eklund.
Jeff: Will the gym be usable?
Vic: To a certain extent. When the electricity is changed over . . . . I have been backing off rentals.
John Festa: We don't want to dissuade you. [Blogger: He often makes statements like this, but the sense of it is exactly to be dissuaded and discouraged, and I'm not sure it's in my notes, but at one point he made a comment like that to Jeff, who said that he did feel discouraged.]
Chad: Our thing is what is the timeline? Are we working on getting ____? The time is now to begin working with the teens. Some of this is time sensitive, but we need to have a sense of what is involved. We are having conversations with the principals about the programs. We appreciate the feedback so we know what we are doing.
Vic: We wish we could have started this project in June.
At this point, Vic gave Matt Merchant, the Record Courier reporter, a chance to ask a question:
Matt: Are the trustees asking for all of the committees to get together and spearhead the master plan? I think there seems to be confusion.
Jeff: No one is pushing the process. [Blogger: Dead on the money there.]
Vic: As far as the construction, we should know something by next week.
JF: Can you consider using the Civic Center?
Jeff: I feel good about how the process is now and how we can work together.
JF: We were going gang busters with the master plan. Then we had the opportunity to get the elevator.
Jeff: You are a small group and only have so much energy to do this.
Vic gave Dave Pollard a chance to comment.
Dave: Sitting here, I have heard that the trustees are responsible for the master plan and there is still no master plan and then we hear that it is up to the committee. The Assessment Committee was pretty well primed six months ago to develop a master plan. The elevator should not bring everything else to a halt but it looks as if that is what has happened.
We were supposed to be in there. [Blogger: I do not have a note about who said that. Dave's next remark clearly addresses the conflict of interest that John Festa so elaborately tried to convince everyone he knew nothing about. At some point I will lay out the path of his argument about that, but not just yet.]
Dave, continuing: You are a trustee and should have known it and this is another delay. When are the new bids for the construction going to be out?
When are they going to re-start?
Vic: One of the reasons they couldn't start was that they come within [under?] the 10% but that has been worked out. They will walk through the construction next week. We will know better then.
The electrical work has not been let out. If it is up to the committees, I am not sure they know that.
Dave: We have heard meeting after meeting about the master plan, but no progress. Grants and Funding has been out front. Grants and Funding are not the ones causing any delays. The committees are willing to go ahead. They are not causing the delays. Those bottlenecks need to be eliminated. The committees need to be made aware of that.
Vic: This has gone on a lot longer than Lisa Reeves (Regional Planning) expected.
Dave: When the sexton and Zoning Inspector wanted to move in, they just moved in. If these folks are willing and have the people together to do the work, it will save the township money.
Matt Merchant: Is not the progress of the elevator part of the overall master plan?
JF: If there had been a master plan.
Matt: The trustees seem to be part of that.
JF: No. Talk to Todd Peetz--he is the facilitator. [Blogger: Todd now seems to be the third designee who should be working on or who has the responsibility for the master plan. Does this sound like trying to avoid responsibility, or what?]
Jeff: Cost of rental--part of the master plan?
Vic: Yes.
Then Vic started to say something about Todd Peetz, which tapered off and then became this:
That turned into more than we expected.
Chad: Thanks to everyone here.
Vic: Under Old Business: We have talked about that enough.
[Blogger: Public Comment came next, and it will be a separate post. I will need to use the recording for part of it, and that is going to take some time. This post has not been proofread, but only corrected on the run.]
Monday, September 12, 2016
Trustees 9-1-16: Gazebo Discussion
Jason was absent; Vic chaired the meeting. This post begins with the substance of the discussion about the gazebo, skipping the preliminary things.
There is one exception: I didn't quite catch John Dickey's (zoning) comment about Eric Hummel, but I heard something more about it on Saturday at the Mantua Village Landmarks Commission meeting. Here it is.
If you have gone into Mantua on SR 44, you absolutely have to have noticed the transformation of a large Victorian house about 1/3 of a mile before Pioneer Trail on the east side of the road. That land and house were purchased by Eric Hummel, who promptly set about bringing things up to their potential. Even in process, the work has effected a striking change. Part of it was to demolish a very rickety shed on the north side of the house.
Apparently that was what John Dickey referred to in the trustees meeting: Eric had not gotten a zoning permit to demolish the shed.
[Horrors! In your blogger's opinion, this is a glaring example of what is often uttered as a funny cliche: no good deed goes unpunished. Never mind how beautiful the whole property looks. Just get all bureaucratic about something that was in disrepair, detracted from the rest of the property, and was taken down without jumping through hoops. I got the impression that the amount of grief being imposed on Eric was disproportionate to the seriousness of the deed. And there is a long record now of inconsistency and even hypocrisy in how things are handled in the township.]
In the regular business of the meeting, focused on zoning:
John Dickey reported that he had gotten verbal approval from Charles Cochran about the gazebo. He has told the committee about what to do and the changes to make in the gazebo. A stamp of approval will come later.
Then there was a laundry list of various violations.
Cemetery, Jim Aldrich: total incomer, $3406.80.
There was comment about the leveling course of paving on Center Road.
Vic: Once the slag is all collected, we can go ahead with berming it and expect help from the county. Not sure when the chip and seal will be done. It will stop at Winchell.
Beautification Committee. Jim Aldrich: Jim brought a request for a zoning certificate. It has to be taken to the county to finish the review process. This is not a commitment to building the gazebo but part of the process to have it OK'd by the county.
Vic: Do they need this since they gave verbal OK?
John Dickey: They will not look at any plans until/unless it is a definite plan to go. Once it is OK with zoning, then they would get a zoning permit. You do have to apply for a building permit for them to go with the plans.
John Festa: I don't think the trustees have given their authorization to go forward with the project.
Jim Aldrich: not until you make a resolution. We aren't asking for that.
JF: Last meeting we said we were going to be sure all safety issues have been addressed.
John Dickey: That is an application for zoning which means you want to build a gazebo over there,
Vic: This is R-3? Answer: yes.
JF: We are not changing the use of the property.
Vic: There is nothing in the book about gazebos.
John Dickey: According to the books, a gazebo is an accessory building.
Vic: I know they considered some language but it never got into the book. There are a lot of grey areas. We have been told that if it is not in the book, it is not a permitted use. If you call it a structure, you already have two structures on this lot.
John Dickey: This is one building and there is one accessory building.
Vic: But a gazebo is not really an accessory building.
John D: I went over this in the ORC with Charles Cochran today. A gazebo is listed there as an accessory building. In the ORC a gazebo is an accessory building.
Vic: But not in our book. It is almost impossible to have everything covered.
John D: There are other gazebos that are listed as accessory buildings.
Dave Pollard: I know for a fact [he was an alternate on the Zoning Commission at the time in question] that zoning was discussing gazebos and pavilions. The language was written in preliminary form but Roundup Lake pre-empted that. The fear was that Roundup Lake would be turned into residential housing and no one wanted that.
Vic: I think it might have been under a title of special use.
John Festa asked the exact part of the ORC. I don't have a problem with it but . . . .
John D.: I am just going by what other zoning commissions have allowed.
Vic: Jason said at the last meeting that the building would have to meet commercial code.
John D.: The plans given to Charles Cochran to look at had two things that had to be changed, and once those were changed, it would meet commercial code. [John did not know which two things.]
Continuing: They are very backed up. The position in the county is that if the building is going to be built, they will look at the plans.
Dave Pollard: I do remember that there was talk, since someone considered it was an accessory building, they keep it within the 192 square feet and therefore a 16-foot diameter circle. But it got pushed aside and I am pretty sure it was Roundup Lake that pushed it aside.
Vic: There are so many gray areas on this issue, and I feel we should stay within the zoning even though we are a township property.
Carole Pollard: This seems like a more appropriate time than waiting for public comment. At the last meeting I mentioned what amounts to field testing for the intended purpose by going there and using it for a few hours. You have the intended purpose and if the intended purpose is simply to make a beautiful area at the center of the township for people to see that is perfectly reasonable. But if it is going to be used, I believe that the people making the decisions should try it to see what the residents will be dealing with. If that were done and the objections to putting a gazebo on it and making it to be parked at and crossing over to it . . . If it is going to be beautiful, that is wonderful. If it is going to be used, it may not be what we want to do for the residents. That would take care of the whole debate. We can find a place that is quiet and more spacious that can be made as beautiful and is a better location.
[Blogger note: This is pretty much what I said. I have to use the recording and try to transcribe/take notes from that. It is surprisingly difficult and time consuming. Somehow, taking the notes on the spot lets me keep up with the gist of things even though the notes are not verbatim. What is up above is the message, even if not every word. Whew!]
John D.: It is there for pictures and decorative purposes.
Vic: Basic site beautification. If we OK this, we are filing for an application to put the building there and that is like giving approval to put it there. There are a couple of zoning issues that need to be worked out.
John Festa to John Dickey: As zoning inspector, do you have any issues?
John D: To make it look nice and have a centerpiece and take pictures at it, I have no problem with it.
Vic: I have a problem with how many structures are allowed on the property. By filling in this application we are more or less giving approval. I want to get a few more things worked out before I go ahead.
John Festa: As far as zoning is concerned, it is fine. I am going on a few things.
Vic: I have a few more things. The letter from KLA [risk management] said to to speak about [with?] the attorney and a few things came up and they need to be straightened out.
John Festa: We will have an answer for you on the safety at the next meeting.
[Blogger: This is the end of the discussion about the gazebo. The next post is going to hit only the highest points of regular business in order to concentrate on the discussion about the community center project.]
There is one exception: I didn't quite catch John Dickey's (zoning) comment about Eric Hummel, but I heard something more about it on Saturday at the Mantua Village Landmarks Commission meeting. Here it is.
If you have gone into Mantua on SR 44, you absolutely have to have noticed the transformation of a large Victorian house about 1/3 of a mile before Pioneer Trail on the east side of the road. That land and house were purchased by Eric Hummel, who promptly set about bringing things up to their potential. Even in process, the work has effected a striking change. Part of it was to demolish a very rickety shed on the north side of the house.
Apparently that was what John Dickey referred to in the trustees meeting: Eric had not gotten a zoning permit to demolish the shed.
[Horrors! In your blogger's opinion, this is a glaring example of what is often uttered as a funny cliche: no good deed goes unpunished. Never mind how beautiful the whole property looks. Just get all bureaucratic about something that was in disrepair, detracted from the rest of the property, and was taken down without jumping through hoops. I got the impression that the amount of grief being imposed on Eric was disproportionate to the seriousness of the deed. And there is a long record now of inconsistency and even hypocrisy in how things are handled in the township.]
In the regular business of the meeting, focused on zoning:
John Dickey reported that he had gotten verbal approval from Charles Cochran about the gazebo. He has told the committee about what to do and the changes to make in the gazebo. A stamp of approval will come later.
Then there was a laundry list of various violations.
Cemetery, Jim Aldrich: total incomer, $3406.80.
There was comment about the leveling course of paving on Center Road.
Vic: Once the slag is all collected, we can go ahead with berming it and expect help from the county. Not sure when the chip and seal will be done. It will stop at Winchell.
Beautification Committee. Jim Aldrich: Jim brought a request for a zoning certificate. It has to be taken to the county to finish the review process. This is not a commitment to building the gazebo but part of the process to have it OK'd by the county.
Vic: Do they need this since they gave verbal OK?
John Dickey: They will not look at any plans until/unless it is a definite plan to go. Once it is OK with zoning, then they would get a zoning permit. You do have to apply for a building permit for them to go with the plans.
John Festa: I don't think the trustees have given their authorization to go forward with the project.
Jim Aldrich: not until you make a resolution. We aren't asking for that.
JF: Last meeting we said we were going to be sure all safety issues have been addressed.
John Dickey: That is an application for zoning which means you want to build a gazebo over there,
Vic: This is R-3? Answer: yes.
JF: We are not changing the use of the property.
Vic: There is nothing in the book about gazebos.
John Dickey: According to the books, a gazebo is an accessory building.
Vic: I know they considered some language but it never got into the book. There are a lot of grey areas. We have been told that if it is not in the book, it is not a permitted use. If you call it a structure, you already have two structures on this lot.
John Dickey: This is one building and there is one accessory building.
Vic: But a gazebo is not really an accessory building.
John D: I went over this in the ORC with Charles Cochran today. A gazebo is listed there as an accessory building. In the ORC a gazebo is an accessory building.
Vic: But not in our book. It is almost impossible to have everything covered.
John D: There are other gazebos that are listed as accessory buildings.
Dave Pollard: I know for a fact [he was an alternate on the Zoning Commission at the time in question] that zoning was discussing gazebos and pavilions. The language was written in preliminary form but Roundup Lake pre-empted that. The fear was that Roundup Lake would be turned into residential housing and no one wanted that.
Vic: I think it might have been under a title of special use.
John Festa asked the exact part of the ORC. I don't have a problem with it but . . . .
John D.: I am just going by what other zoning commissions have allowed.
Vic: Jason said at the last meeting that the building would have to meet commercial code.
John D.: The plans given to Charles Cochran to look at had two things that had to be changed, and once those were changed, it would meet commercial code. [John did not know which two things.]
Continuing: They are very backed up. The position in the county is that if the building is going to be built, they will look at the plans.
Dave Pollard: I do remember that there was talk, since someone considered it was an accessory building, they keep it within the 192 square feet and therefore a 16-foot diameter circle. But it got pushed aside and I am pretty sure it was Roundup Lake that pushed it aside.
Vic: There are so many gray areas on this issue, and I feel we should stay within the zoning even though we are a township property.
Carole Pollard: This seems like a more appropriate time than waiting for public comment. At the last meeting I mentioned what amounts to field testing for the intended purpose by going there and using it for a few hours. You have the intended purpose and if the intended purpose is simply to make a beautiful area at the center of the township for people to see that is perfectly reasonable. But if it is going to be used, I believe that the people making the decisions should try it to see what the residents will be dealing with. If that were done and the objections to putting a gazebo on it and making it to be parked at and crossing over to it . . . If it is going to be beautiful, that is wonderful. If it is going to be used, it may not be what we want to do for the residents. That would take care of the whole debate. We can find a place that is quiet and more spacious that can be made as beautiful and is a better location.
[Blogger note: This is pretty much what I said. I have to use the recording and try to transcribe/take notes from that. It is surprisingly difficult and time consuming. Somehow, taking the notes on the spot lets me keep up with the gist of things even though the notes are not verbatim. What is up above is the message, even if not every word. Whew!]
John D.: It is there for pictures and decorative purposes.
Vic: Basic site beautification. If we OK this, we are filing for an application to put the building there and that is like giving approval to put it there. There are a couple of zoning issues that need to be worked out.
John Festa to John Dickey: As zoning inspector, do you have any issues?
John D: To make it look nice and have a centerpiece and take pictures at it, I have no problem with it.
Vic: I have a problem with how many structures are allowed on the property. By filling in this application we are more or less giving approval. I want to get a few more things worked out before I go ahead.
John Festa: As far as zoning is concerned, it is fine. I am going on a few things.
Vic: I have a few more things. The letter from KLA [risk management] said to to speak about [with?] the attorney and a few things came up and they need to be straightened out.
John Festa: We will have an answer for you on the safety at the next meeting.
[Blogger: This is the end of the discussion about the gazebo. The next post is going to hit only the highest points of regular business in order to concentrate on the discussion about the community center project.]
Tuesday, September 6, 2016
Careful What You Ask For
Blogger Foreword: This post is an op ed dealing with the blog and a legal challenge to it. Note: It is an opinion piece, and therefore falls under the protection of the First Amendment to the Constitution.
As 2015 was coming to an end, I took stock of where my time was going and began telling my friends that I planned on ending the blog early in 2016. I was looking forward to spending those hours in my studio, making art quilts.
Then I was served papers charging that my comments in the blog had defamed a man of "exemplary character" and damaged his business. The list of comments cited went back to day 1 and included Dave's limericks, which were not my comments, but just put into the blog.
Well. That changed everything. Rather than ending the blog, I had to keep it going until everything had played out.
The case has concluded, but I am NOT ending the blog.
I will do the blog as long as I flaming well please. Only one thing may change. I don't think my editorial remarks about yawns and curses from the back of the room are necessary. Their crudeness speaks for itself. Since they are part of what has gone on in meetings, they are staying if they are uttered.
If there is a back story that will give perspective and increase understanding of something that occurs in a meeting, the blog will continue to give that story. My opinion may be part of that.
This blog is protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The bully who wanted to silence and humiliate me publicly was trying to deny me my right to freedom of speech while retaining his own. The First Amendment is one of the two cornerstones of this nation, the one that makes us who we are. The First Amendment is a jewel beyond price and sets us apart from almost all the rest of the world. Hiccup wrong in Libya or Egypt or most of the Middle East, and you're dead.
So I am not going away meekly to let the only voice be one fueled by hatred and vindictiveness. The blog is continuing precisely because he tried to shut it down.
Freedom of information is another priceless feature of our nation. You don't have to wonder, "What is she talking about?" You can see for yourself.
The blog has a pretty small readership, in the great scheme of things. But now, thanks to this ego-driven lawsuit, everybody in the county and all of their friends, no matter where they live, can see every detail. It's a matter of public record.
If you don't want to go through the whole business, I will tell you that his lawyer finally moved to dismiss the case. Mine moved for a summary judgment in my favor, which the judge granted.
So, basically, after all of this posturing, my accuser quit before he lost.
Here's how to find the records, step by step: [There are two places that I need to check but don't have the time for at the moment. They are starred, and I think you can work your way through the directions OK, regardless.]
In the Search box of your computer, key in co.portage.oh.us
or Portage County Government Web Site
and click on Search.
At the left on the county home page is a list of choices.
Click on Public Records.
A page comes up headed Miscellaneous County Records.
Under that are three choices. Click on Search Court Records.
Either at the left or at the top of the page that comes up, click on Search Court Records. [*]
Follow the directions that come up. There are two verification steps, both very simple.
When you get the Search window that has starred last name and first name boxes, fill in my name:
Pollard
Carole
Click on Search at the bottom of the window.
That will give you my Portage County court records.
The one dated 1/11/2016 is the source of this blog post. [Click on it.*]
Scroll down to Docket Information and click on the Image icon at the right side of the screen for the first entry. And away you go.
There is no need for me to say anything more about this circus. It's all there in the record.
As 2015 was coming to an end, I took stock of where my time was going and began telling my friends that I planned on ending the blog early in 2016. I was looking forward to spending those hours in my studio, making art quilts.
Then I was served papers charging that my comments in the blog had defamed a man of "exemplary character" and damaged his business. The list of comments cited went back to day 1 and included Dave's limericks, which were not my comments, but just put into the blog.
Well. That changed everything. Rather than ending the blog, I had to keep it going until everything had played out.
The case has concluded, but I am NOT ending the blog.
I will do the blog as long as I flaming well please. Only one thing may change. I don't think my editorial remarks about yawns and curses from the back of the room are necessary. Their crudeness speaks for itself. Since they are part of what has gone on in meetings, they are staying if they are uttered.
If there is a back story that will give perspective and increase understanding of something that occurs in a meeting, the blog will continue to give that story. My opinion may be part of that.
This blog is protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The bully who wanted to silence and humiliate me publicly was trying to deny me my right to freedom of speech while retaining his own. The First Amendment is one of the two cornerstones of this nation, the one that makes us who we are. The First Amendment is a jewel beyond price and sets us apart from almost all the rest of the world. Hiccup wrong in Libya or Egypt or most of the Middle East, and you're dead.
So I am not going away meekly to let the only voice be one fueled by hatred and vindictiveness. The blog is continuing precisely because he tried to shut it down.
Freedom of information is another priceless feature of our nation. You don't have to wonder, "What is she talking about?" You can see for yourself.
The blog has a pretty small readership, in the great scheme of things. But now, thanks to this ego-driven lawsuit, everybody in the county and all of their friends, no matter where they live, can see every detail. It's a matter of public record.
If you don't want to go through the whole business, I will tell you that his lawyer finally moved to dismiss the case. Mine moved for a summary judgment in my favor, which the judge granted.
So, basically, after all of this posturing, my accuser quit before he lost.
Here's how to find the records, step by step: [There are two places that I need to check but don't have the time for at the moment. They are starred, and I think you can work your way through the directions OK, regardless.]
In the Search box of your computer, key in co.portage.oh.us
or Portage County Government Web Site
and click on Search.
At the left on the county home page is a list of choices.
Click on Public Records.
A page comes up headed Miscellaneous County Records.
Under that are three choices. Click on Search Court Records.
Either at the left or at the top of the page that comes up, click on Search Court Records. [*]
Follow the directions that come up. There are two verification steps, both very simple.
When you get the Search window that has starred last name and first name boxes, fill in my name:
Pollard
Carole
Click on Search at the bottom of the window.
That will give you my Portage County court records.
The one dated 1/11/2016 is the source of this blog post. [Click on it.*]
Scroll down to Docket Information and click on the Image icon at the right side of the screen for the first entry. And away you go.
There is no need for me to say anything more about this circus. It's all there in the record.
Thursday, September 1, 2016
A couple of tweaks
Blogger: I had occasion to hunt through the recording of the 8-18 meeting, always a tedious undertaking in trying to find a specific comment. I'm not sure I succeeded, but I ran across something that wasn't in my notes. I also remember something that was not in my notes that couldn't be found in the recording without listening to the whole two-hour-plus meeting all over again. That's not going to happen, Both are presented below.
First, as part of the discussion about School Lane, Jason did say that he had asked the road crew to do some tree clearing on School Lane, which is slowly getting filled in from the east with various forms of vegetation.
So he ended up less resistant-sounding than he may have seemed in the blog post.
Second, in going through the recording, something jogged my memory about a comment Jason made about the bullpen: that it is pretty much at the geographic center of the township and very visible. It represents the heart of the township [which may be my interpretation, but I think true to Jason's tone and comments] and it should be beautiful.
First, as part of the discussion about School Lane, Jason did say that he had asked the road crew to do some tree clearing on School Lane, which is slowly getting filled in from the east with various forms of vegetation.
So he ended up less resistant-sounding than he may have seemed in the blog post.
Second, in going through the recording, something jogged my memory about a comment Jason made about the bullpen: that it is pretty much at the geographic center of the township and very visible. It represents the heart of the township [which may be my interpretation, but I think true to Jason's tone and comments] and it should be beautiful.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)